Cadillac ATS Brembo Caliper Upgrade for your Subaru

[LatentWagen]

^The above is now out of context, but still great

 

Let's play nice now, or this thread will keep getting whittled away...

[Dispatch20]

Measured a front LGT Centric rotor tonight: 21.4 lbs.

[battelready]

If you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

 

That's going in my sig

[THE RZA]

+1

[Flinkly]

Gawd. If i had a spare knuckle, i'd get a caliper and rotor and start taking measurements and fabbing some sh*t up. I think i'd rather trim the caliper spine and mount to gain space axially and radially. And make a new bracket to offset the mount to remove the angle. Maybe even bias it inwards as far as reasonable to add more wheel barrel clearance.

 

So much want...

 

How thick is the kit spacer for behind the rotor?

[battelready]

Gawd. If i had a spare knuckle, i'd get a caliper and rotor and start taking measurements and fabbing some sh*t up. I think i'd rather trim the caliper spine and mount to gain space axially and radially. And make a new bracket to offset the mount to remove the angle. Maybe even bias it inwards as far as reasonable to add more wheel barrel clearance.

 

So much want...

 

How thick is the kit spacer for behind the rotor?

 

From the picture , im gonna say 5mm . 10mm the max but more than likely 5mm. I took a peep of their website and they made a 6 piston cts-v bracket for the nissans, maybe they might make it for ours as well.

[rebourne]

I used to love this thread, now I cringe every time i open it...

[Flinkly]

2.5 mm, someone measured on nasioc.

 

Post #121

Edited May 19, 2016 by Flinkly

[squid372]

How would these hold out for track performance?

[boxkita]

How would these hold out for track performance?

Keeping things cool iz the key to track performance. somewhere on Sgt.Gator 's racing thread is the story of his really awesome brakes being reduced to Flintstone level because 1 minute of sitting.

A decent pad on the stock lgt setup will work assuming you can keep them cool. But keep in mind braking on track is different than braking in DD situations. You hammer them hard and back off quickly multiple times a lap and always in tbe place /time. The amount of time before next brake is rarely enough time to fully cool them so eventually they get heat soaked.

With race pads, my wagon was good for a 30 minute session although by session end the last few slowing attempts were a bit dicey. I never did the ducts which is probably just as well as the wagon was too fast for my safety equipment.

[fedaykin]

^ as above. Track pads, high temp fresh fluid and ducting will be more noticeable than bigger calipers.

[squid372]

but i still want to know how these would square off against the brembo's or stock brakes around a track

[derp]

It depends on the pads, the rotors, the fluid, the cooling, and the size of your pair.

 

You'll likely get better performance on stock calipers with high quality components than you will with these and some street brake stuff.

 

How much money do you feel like spending? I'm willing to bet you will very rarely get to the point where you 'need' these for a track situation. My wagon gets tracked semi-regularly, and I do just fine with the stock calipers.

[boxkita]

^ this.

I race in production car class along with bmw. The same cars run endurance races upto 25 hours on stock calipers. and often win. We all use good pads, high quality fluid and stock calipers.

 

Like coilovers, this is pretty bling. In some very rare conditions you might find these are better than stock. The scca racecar thread has reasons why Sgt.Gator upgraded the brakes. Mostly because heat soak is a problem on heavy cars, like lgt. Still its a racecar not street car.

Lack of braking on a street car is due to technique not brake system choices. Pjf's roll to a stop from 3 miles away while his girlfriend drives like it was stolen highlights how well a brake system can work under widely varied conditions. A long braking period is what causes wear and fade. A quick hard brake then gradual release is much better.

[GTEASER]

I have tracked my car several times on stock LGT rotors and calipers with Carbotech race pads and good fluid. I was running 255/40-18 ultra high performance summer tires and had plenty of brake power, feel and no fade for the grip level that the tires provided. I only activated ABS a few times going from a high speed section to a low speed corner, but that was more a result of my not being smooth. Race compound tires would provide much more grip and work the brakes harder, but I have no doubt that my brake setup would be more than adequate since Fredrik was running race compound tires on his 3.6R (same brakes as LGT) and running the same rotors/pads as me, and he had no brake performance issues.

 

So unless you are running race compound tires on the street, there is absolutely no reason to upgrade calipers/rotors beyond the very capable stock units. It's just bling and bragging rights and I prefer to brag with my lap times, not my equipment.

Edited May 20, 2016 by GTEASER

[boxkita]

Now that we all crapped on this thread, what's the latest on weight and fit?

[Flinkly]

pfft, 9 lb 4 lb weight savings is the current estimate, which that and getting it to fit would be the point to me. not to get better braking, but to work on a fun "engineering" project and lighter setup.

 

10 lbs lighter caliper 5 lb lighter caliper, 1 lb heavier rotor.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Flinkly

[Patrick Olsen]

I have tracked my car several times on stock LGT rotors and calipers with Carbotech race pads and good fluid. I was running 25540-18 ultra high performance summer tires and had plenty of brake power, feel and no fade for the grip level that the tires provided. Race compound tires would provide much more grip and work the brakes harder, but I have no doubt that my brake setup would be more than adequate since Fredrik was running race compound tires on his 3.6R (same brakes as LGT) and running the same rotors/pads as me, and he had no brake performance issues.

"Had no brake performance issues" doesn't mean that the brakes can't be improved upon. There is more to braking performance than just, "They don't fade, so they're good to go."

 

So unless you are running race compound tires on the street, there is absolutely no reason to upgrade calipers/rotors beyond the very capable stock units. It's just bling and bragging rights and I prefer to brag with my lap times, not my equipment.

I'm not sure what your discussion of your on-track experience has to do with running R-compound tires on the street.

 

But having upgraded two different cars from sliding calipers to opposed piston calipers, using the same sized rotors, I can confidently say that your lap times would do more bragging with the opposed piston calipers.

 

 

pfft, 9 lb weight savings is the current estimate, which that and getting it to fit would be the point to me. not to get better braking, but to work on a fun "engineering" project and lighter setup.

 

10 lbs lighter caliper, 1 lb heavier rotor.

Wait, where did 10# come from? I thought it was ~1/2 that - the ATS calipers were listed as 8.1# (I don't remember if that was in this thread or the NASIOC thread), and you measured your LGT ones as 13.2#.

[Flinkly]

Wait, where did 10# come from? I thought it was ~1/2 that - the ATS calipers were listed as 8.1# (I don't remember if that was in this thread or the NASIOC thread), and you measured your LGT ones as 13.2#.

 

lol, good catch. faulty memory form Latent saying we'd save 10 lbs (total) with the calipers.

 

so it's 4 lbs total per corner (and 2 corners - front only).

 

5 lb lighter caliper, 1 lb heavier rotor. 4 lb savings.

[GTEASER]

"Had no brake performance issues" doesn't mean that the brakes can't be improved upon. There is more to braking performance than just, "They don't fade, so they're good to go."

 

 

I'm not sure what your discussion of your on-track experience has to do with running R-compound tires on the street.

 

But having upgraded two different cars from sliding calipers to opposed piston calipers, using the same sized rotors, I can confidently say that your lap times would do more bragging with the opposed piston calipers.

 

 

My point is, that for the street, the stock calipers and rotors with good pads and summer tires, is much more than adequate for "street" driving. Will my lap times go down with R compound tires and bigger brakes? They certainly will. But that is performance that can only be found safely on track, not on the street. If you track your car, these upgrades will prove their worth, on the street, they are just bling.

[boxkita]

lol, good catch. faulty memory form Latent saying we'd save 10 lbs (total) with the calipers.

 

so it's 4 lbs total per corner (and 2 corners - front only).

 

5 lb lighter caliper, 1 lb heavier rotor. 4 lb savings.

Rotational weigh goes up car weight goes down. Net effect slower accelerating car.

[Flinkly]

Rotational weigh goes up car weight goes down. Net effect slower accelerating car.

 

BUT IT LOOKS COOL AND GETS THE LADIES!?!?!?!

 

WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?

 

 

 

Good thing you'll also be forced to get new wheels, so for those on OEM, you can move from 24lb boulders to sub-16lb feathers.

[LatentWagen]

If you track your car, these upgrades will prove their worth, on the street, they are just bling.

 

The same could be said about power or suspension mods. Not many of us can fully use 300HP on the street, but nobody thinks twice about stage 2. Really, anything other than basic transportation is bling, then.

 

Not being able to over drive them on the street doesn't mean that you can't enjoy the mod, whether it's a big turbo, big brakes, or grippy tires.

[Flinkly]

This thread needs moar science and engineering!

[GTEASER]

Back on topic gentlemen, this thread has been jacked long enough. The Discount Brakes rotor deal has been moved to this thread.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/discount-brakes-rotor-deal-253148.html

Edited May 26, 2016 by GTEASER