whitrzac Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Your tesnsioner is blue, which means it's good (NSK). Next time get an OEM water pump, it's not much more ($80ish) but well worth it for peace of mind. OEM waterpump from the dealer is ~$180! Buy the ASIN kit, it uses all OEM parts, including the waterpump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Gates claims their new tensioner is superior to the OEM (NTN) tensioner: A larger diameter hydraulic tensioner piston has been implemented to ensure proper contact is made between the tensioner and the tensioner bracket dowel pin during the service life of the tensioner. Gates has determined that in some cases extreme offset loading of the OE tensioner can cause the tensioner and/or the tensioner mounting bolt to fail prematurely. The internal design of the tensioner has been improved to maintain proper operation during the life of the tensioner. This includes measures taken to help prevent the tensioner piston from sticking as well as to prevent oil leaks from the tensioner seal. Measures have been taken to ensure the mounting bolt retains its strength for the service life of the tensioner. This has been accomplished by including a 30% stronger bolt with improved fatigue strength. The bearing is a sealed heavy duty double row bearing which meets or exceeds the OE design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino6303 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Gates claims their new tensioner is superior to the OEM (NTN) tensioner: It's not. That is a marketing gimmick because their sales have dropped since switching to the china made tensioner. All aftermarket parts will have the asterisk that says "meets or exceeds oem specifications". However this is not the same as "meets or exceeds oem quality". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 When did it become mandatory to bleed the tensioner in the Gates kit by cycling the piston through 3 cycles? https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2832541 When I created this thread that warning wasn't there and the knocking noise was terrible on first start. When we did a timing kit for another friend last summer, a blue NTN tensioner was shipped and had that warning, but since it was an NTN blue tensioner we didn't bother with bleeding procedure. The guy hasn't complained yet. OEM waterpump from the dealer is ~$180! Buy the ASIN kit, it uses all OEM parts, including the waterpump. This is why I buy online only, I get my OEM water pumps from ebay or Heuberger for under $100. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesA Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 I agree Gates is really trying to say "this new tensioner is better than that crappy one we used to sell in our kits." I have never heard of bleeding the tensioner, I just put the tensioner on and let it expand for a few hours before starting up the car again. Everything worked fine, the sky opened up and I thought I saw angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 ..When we did a timing kit for another friend last summer, a blue NTN tensioner was shipped and had that warning, but since it was an NTN blue tensioner we didn't bother with bleeding procedure. The guy hasn't complained yet... It seems the Gates kit can have 3 different tensioners now, from Japan, Canada, or China. Or is it just 2 tensioners, from Japan and China? From a post at nasioc: Yup....im the latest victim of a gates china kit. I got the tck328 w/o WP. Ive seen some kits that come in with w mix of japan, china, and canadian parts, but still the box said it was all made in japan. I got my kit today and all but the belt and one other part are all china parts, one is Canadian. Belt- japan, (2) T42194-china, t41239-s.korea, t42024-china, t43262-canada. When i googled the part number for the canadian part, nothing comes up. I go on gates website n type it in, still nothing comes up, even under gates canada nothing came up. Like gates doesnt even recognize their own part number. I called the company i got the kit from and boy was he mad. He dug a little deeper, come to find out they make two kits now. Tck328, tck328N. The guy tells me the one w/o the N is now gates china parts, but the kit with the N is the ntn kit. Said the N kit was the kit that gates supplies to the manufacturer and the dealerships for their new cars and parts sales…..He goes n gets the kit while im still on the phone, reading off the part numbers and such, yup...japan, japan, japan, china. Ok so whats the china part? He looks it up, low and behold, the one china part is the damn tensioner. I only paid $155 for the kit so i was goin to swap it then buy a good tensioner. But those arent so easy to find now since even subaru is using/selling tensioners made in china. https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2817550 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 Yup Gates is on my sh*t list now. Especially since their support is horrible. When I was asking them about it last year it sounded like I was bothering them. I will also say, the Gates timing belt was worse quality then I remember seeing it too. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Yeah the pin on the gates tensioner does seem pretty beefy.. But I have to wonder how much that really matters. This is the tensioner from my TCK307 kit I bought last year, March or April of 2016 I think. I never installed it after hearing about the knocking with the new gates tensioners, went oem instead, even though my oem tensioner that I pulled off with 90k was leaking. By the way, I just noticed on Rockauto that gates also has a TCK307N kit.. I don't know if this is new or not, I think it might be? GATES TCK307N PowerGrip Premium OE Timing Belt Component Kit Interference engine application; OE Design $159.79 http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=7997768&cc=1443525&jsn=400 Contents: Belt, OE Exact Hyd. Tensioner, 2 Idlers, Idler Sprocket, Installation Tool, Loctite Threadlocker Versus GATES TCK307 {#2523070} PowerGrip Premium OE Timing Belt Component Kit $118.79 Interference engine application; OE Improved http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2153702&cc=1443525&jsn=394&jsn=394 Contents: Belt, OE Improved Hyd. Tensioner, 2 Idlers, Idler Sprocket, Installation Tool, Loctite Threadlocker **I clearly didn't thoroughly read this thread before posting my reply. I just realized outahere already posted about the N kit, whoops... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 Great find on the Rock Auto having the N kit with OEM parts, I do wonder if all the idlers are OEM too. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 According to the person at nasioc I quoted earlier, the N kit includes Japan sourced pulleys and a China sourced tensioner: I called the company i got the kit from….The guy tells me...the kit with the N is the ntn kit. Said the N kit was the kit that gates supplies to the manufacturer and the dealerships for their new cars and parts sales…..He goes n gets the kit while im still on the phone, reading off the part numbers and such, yup...japan, japan, japan, china. Ok so whats the china part? He looks it up, low and behold, the one china part is the damn tensioner. Something does not add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atchipmunk Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Add another name to the sucker-list for the Gates timing belt kit. I replaced the timing belt on my '09 Outback 2.5i sometime last year. Didn't really inspect the kit parts when I did it...just assumed that since it was from Gates it should be OK. I mean, I had always heard they used OEM parts in their kits, right? Well, Friday my car started making a loud knocking noise. Not so bad when cold but gets worse as the car warms up. Initially I thought that it was rod knock because I had already replaced the timing belt and tensioner, etc. and quite frankly it SOUNDS like rod knock. However, after spending some time diagnosing the noise it looks like the Gates timing belt tensioner has failed. Pulled the left timing cover and was able to get my stethoscope onto the back of the belt tensioner and it is knocking like a mother f'er. Dammit. Of course, after determining it was the tensioner knocking, I researched and found this thread. Wish I saw it before...guess i'll be doing the timing belt over again and will be picking up an OEM Subaru belt tensioner instead. SO annoying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slvrlegacygt Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I am lost I am looking into doing a timing belt kit from gates and the part number I am coming back with is different from what is posted. GAT TCKWP328 are the kits different between turbo and non turbo cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesA Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I am lost I am looking into doing a timing belt kit from gates and the part number I am coming back with is different from what is posted. GAT TCKWP328 are the kits different between turbo and non turbo cars? That kit includes the water pump. See if you can find an alternative to the Gates kit, though, until they get their act together and stop using Chinese crap parts. Have a look at Aisin or ContiTech kits if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08SpecB_DE Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Why on God's green earth would you want to buy the Gates kit? Go Aisin or Continental and call it a day. I was one of the first to try the Aisin kit and couldnt be happier. I already knew of their reputation since I turn wrenches for a living so I wasn't worried about quality. I paid around 250 from Rock Auto for the kit and it came with a water pump. Save yourself the hassle and potential headaches that can come from buying the Gates kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Seems they made a change in the Gates kit ? Check the recent post, https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2822046 post #12 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted May 29, 2017 Author Share Posted May 29, 2017 There seems to be two part numbers now, just checked with RockAuto and surely enough: GATES TCK328 $147.89 GATES TCK328N $167.79 The N kit should have most oem like parts. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 Thanks for checking, my wagon will be getting a kit before Winter. The ej257 has almost 90,000 on it now. And next year my Spec B will be nearing 10 years old. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 The "N" kit supposedly contains an NTN tensioner. I have not verified. I am done with Gates timing belt kits. When we originally noticed the change in tensioner we stopped using the kits at the shop. But it has taken some time to put together the kit we now use. While Aisin is the OE supplier of water pumps to Subaru, they do not supply any of the other parts. The OEM belt is Gates Japan. Gates USA belts are considered aftermarket. NTN makes the tensioner and NTN/NSK makes the idler pulleys. The kit we now use at the shop is put together with OEM and aftermarket parts. 13033AA042 OEM Tensioner NTN13085AA080 OEM Cogged Idler NSK13073AA142 OEM13073AA230 OEM Idler NTN21111AA240A Aisin or NPW Water Pump 13028AA240B Timing Belt Mitsuboshi While Aisin is the OEM water pump supplier I have no issues with the NPW. Either one works great. Mitsuboshi does not make the OEM timing belt for Subaru, but they do make the accessory belts for Subaru, so it is "close" to OEM. This "package" of parts costs us about $35 more than the Gates kit (at cost). So, the out the door price for a timing belt service has not changed, but you get the best parts we can find. Maybe this info helps a "do it yourself-er". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08SpecB_DE Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 My factory timing belt said Mitsuboshi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 My factory timing belt said Mitsuboshi. Subaru is known to use more than one supplier. Technically the timing belts are supposed to be Gates Japan, but since Subaru buys accessory belts from Mitsuboshi, why not buy some timing belts too? I trust the belts, so I have no issue using them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Engine came in with a "knocking" sound. Whats wrong with this picture??? Hint... it is one of the reasons we had to change suppliers of timing kits. The bolt holding the timing belt tensioner (even though properly torqued) sheared off at the block. Thankfully the belt did not skip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 That's even the "blue oem like one". Makes me really wonder now.... 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flinkly Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 honestly, OEM or nothing these days. even if it'll cost you $100 more than a gates kit, it's better than having to pay for another kit 10k down the road (if you're lucky), or another 4k cause teeth skipping and valve "kissing". * Build Thread * 26.53 MPG - 12 month Average * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 I'm honestly getting to the same point, I'll try the ASIN kit next time, and if they don't work out I'll start doing what mr sprank does. Makes me wonder how all these small time repair shops deal with this. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JF1GG29 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 I take my Subarus to a small-time Subaru shop. When it comes to timing belt service, his philosophy is OEM or high-performance/racing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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