FUHL Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Here is the kit with the seals. http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=7681068&cc=1432596&jsn=419 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 A little bit more about the Gates "N" kits: ...I just opened a Gates “N” kit and all components are labelled Japan except the small idler which is labelled NSK (Japanese company). I have a 2003 USDM 2.0 and am doing a rebuilt so I needed a new timing belt and pulleys….In my reading I caught mention of a Gates “N” kit. I called Gates to inquire. After a short hold I talked to a knowledgeable rep who could not guarantee country of origin on “N” kits but stated all components would be from OEM suppliers…. https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2853549 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 "N" is the premium line. A new offering to raise prices as they were basically forced to deal with the bad PR from the crap parts in the "standard" kits. Only part I can verify is TRUE OEM is the tensioner. All others appear to be supplied by OE suppliers (NTN, NSK). But the price is the same as the TRUE OEM parts I am now supplying my shop customers. So, I will stick with my true OEM as this I can verify without having to research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Another failed Gates timing belt tensioner. The non-oem one that Gates has been supplying for some time now. It is issues like this that caused us to pause and decide to discontinue using the Gates brand for timing belt components. We switched to OEM when this first started happening. On this one, the tensioner did not just fail (the norm for the Gates branded tensioner) but the bolt that holds it to the block also snapped. A $100 part taking out a $6000 engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted December 15, 2017 Author Share Posted December 15, 2017 Wow! How many miles on that kit? Also is that the one they used right before switching to their made in canada (non blue ones?) 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 That happened to another member here back in late 2015 after around 3,000mi http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/timing-belt-came-off-cam-while-driving-247105.html?t=247105 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted December 15, 2017 Author Share Posted December 15, 2017 I've had my kit for 45k miles, just wondering if it's a ticking timebomb. I think failure like that withing 5-10k could be related to installation error (overtorqueing or under-torquing). 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 The kit had maybe 3000 miles on it, maybe less. This Kit was sourced immediately after the change (circa 2015). Customer purchased it, installed it and was then deployed. The car was stored for an extended period. Upon his return this happened on day 2. I normally would blame the possibility of torque. However... I have had the exact same thing happen on a kit I installed. I am not perfect, but I do paint the heads of the bolts after torque. So, I now I dont miss any. I was also able to remove the broken bolt from the block half. It had red Loctite on it. It did not come out easily. But I did not visually see any threads that were damaged (stretching, galling, etc.). It is odd, but I thought it valuable to show at least one element of failure. I have not had the internal fortitude to run a car with the covers off and the tensioner bouncing for a vid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 Sorry didn't mean to blame you, I figured a random shop installed that set. Since most shops love to use impact wrenches I wouldn't be surprised to see it broken. But now you have me worried, I bout the gates kit for my Outback in October 2015, I have about 17k miles on it now. It was still the blue one but I don't remember if it was NTN/NSK/made in japan. I did use the loctite blue 242 that it came with. http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=259580&stc=1&d=1513393550 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 No offense taken. I am human and prone to error. My only weapon against it is massive OCD. Even then, I am not always saved. For what it is worth, in my experience if you are very aware you can hear the tensioner giving out prior to catastrophe. I can not be positive this is the case 100% of the time. But I was able to catch the first few "knocking" and diagnose the issue prior to losing the tensioner 100%/losing the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 I would hear the noise, but it's my wife's car sooo.... I do drive it about once a week though, so will hopefully catch it before it gets too bad. Problem with the 2010+ is, Subaru really skimped on firewall sound deadening or something, so there is a lot of engine bay noise in the cabin. At first I thought it was the EJ253's, but then I worked on a 2006 2.5i Ooutback and it was as quiet as my 2005 LGT. Note to self, buy timing chain cars only going forward 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 I would hear the noise, but it's my wife's car sooo.... I do drive it about once a week though, so will hopefully catch it before it gets too bad. Problem with the 2010+ is, Subaru really skimped on firewall sound deadening or something, so there is a lot of engine bay noise in the cabin. At first I thought it was the EJ253's, but then I worked on a 2006 2.5i Ooutback and it was as quiet as my 2005 LGT. Note to self, buy timing chain cars only going forward My boys have 2005 2.5i OB and 2010 2.5i OB. 2005 is way more quiet than 2010. My 2005 LGT is louder than both. 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Sorry didn't mean to blame you, I figured a random shop installed that set. Since most shops love to use impact wrenches I wouldn't be surprised to see it broken. But now you have me worried, I bout the gates kit for my Outback in October 2015, I have about 17k miles on it now. It was still the blue one but I don't remember if it was NTN/NSK/made in japan. I did use the loctite blue 242 that it came with. http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=259580&stc=1&d=1513393550 You guys are making me nervous. I had the same Gates kit installed on my son's 2005 2.5i OB and it's been fine since last summer, so 1.5 years now. I have a lot of pictures taken during the engine rebuild, but I do remember the blue tensioner having no markings on it. I did double and tripple check the torque during the assembly. Had SB completely redone so definetily don't want anything happening to the engine. 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 I made a comment in this very thread almost a year ago: http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5543717&postcount=71 At that point I didn't know the source of tapping sound coming from the engine. Since then I did verify that it is not the tensioner nor water pump. Likely coming from cyl 1 rocker, and I did try to adjust the valves again but couldn't get rid of the tapping completely. I also got rid of exhaust leak so it wasn't the root cause either. Engine was loud before the rebuild and thus I can't tell if the tapping was there always or it's something that appeared post rebuild. Engine now has 15K miles on it and it went to French Canada with less than 1K since rebuild and did fine in -30C weather. I hope it continues like that. 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
912 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Thanks all for catching this "quality improvement" by a formerly well-reputed supplier... I'm due a TBK for my '08 SpecB, and will choose Aisin or Continental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 I'm thinking about buying OEM tensioner for my outback now. But Aisin does sound tempting... 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.