boxkita Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 ikr! But this last hurdle and I should be where I want, looks like the stage 3 cams with avcs and a smaller turbo isn't a bad combination. Its definitely streetable and I can cruise at around 2k-2500 rpm and can pull up to 6k easy, didn't want to go past 6k until broken in some more, but it could go another 1-1.5krpm easily. This is all on a base tune with minimal boost. So I am eager to get this hammered out and put on the dyno. I think it will be a nice gradual slope with good power over a wide band. I think I am getting the results I was looking for, I wanted the bigger cams to make the block itself more powerful meaning it can make power without the turbo, and now the turbo is just a bigger bonus. From driving on the street it seems I didn't really loose any low end power, or I have enough where I don't really notice.... all I can say is it looks like its going to be a lot of fun when I'm done. So this will be fixed asap... i'm right there! I think I can just break 400 awhp on 93 octane with this 20g turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 When I first put my car on the road, it was tuned for 96octane. So I kept a 5 gallon jug of 100 or 110. I'd mix in for every tankful. It might help with your breakin period or not. I found not every station's 93 was the same. VP sells 93 clear if you're really particular, but its not 2.44/gallon Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 I use the same gas station for the most part. And I have been paranoid and drive only like 10 miles from my house lol. I want to stay away from racing fuel. You can get 96 octane at a station near you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 vp racing fuels has a couple retailers near you. Get a 5 gallon pail delivered to any auto parts store. Any engine building shop or performance shop should have access to fuel. Lastly most drag strips will have a high octane pump available. I used to buy two 55 gallon drums of 92 clear when racing the Mustang. We never used it all because never finished a race before something broke. For the Wagon, I'd fill five 5 gallon jugs with 100 race gas and mix it in as the day progressed. Today? I use Costco's finest winter blend @ 2.73/gal. Probably should get 15 gallons of 100 and clean it out. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 a rod bearing went, cylinder 4..... heads are fine after testing them to see if they seal...... smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 (edited) Not sure if the tensioner issue was the cause or a factor. It could have been an underlying issue which was exacerbated by the timing going off, or the timing going off and forcing it home made some serious knock occur. Not sure what caused it, dropping it off at the machine shop tomorrow, when they tear it down they may have some answers. For now I will probably need: -Crankshaft, probably around 400 bucks, not sure whats better nitride or heat treated.. -a rod 150 bucks -new bearings 100 bucks or so -new water jacket rubber washers couple dollars -whatever rubber gaskets couple dollars -12mm sti oil pump, stepping up from 11mm just to be sure 200 bucks -oil cooler 200 bucks wtf.... once it rains it pours.... Edited September 7, 2020 by Tehnation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 (edited) Will also use different oil as well, 0w 40 or something more appropriate, was using 5w-30. Will have to look into what is best .... painful lessons... so more like 2-3 weeks not 1. Edited September 7, 2020 by Tehnation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 for anyone who wants to know how to test your sb for a bad rod bearing this video is simple enough to get the point. This is similar to what I did, it lets you know if #ynansb or if you need to rebuild and to also drop the oil pan and tear down the block completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Will also use different oil as well, 0w 40 or something more appropriate, was using 5w-30. Will have to look into what is best .... painful lessons... so more like 2-3 weeks not 1. 5W-30 is fine for break in. IMO, 0w should not be used in these engines 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViscousSquirrel Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Good god man! Spun a Rod bearing already? Sounds like maybe the machine shop cocked something up... or worse you have some silicone from either the oil pump or the block halves blocking an oil passage somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 who knows... the tensioner exploding isn't making it easier to figure out. I'm going to tear down the short block this weekend and do a thorough inspection. See if there is wear in any other bearing, that way I can see if its an isolated issue or design/build issue. I used the higher end of oem specs for crank and rod clearance, maybe should have gone with bigger .002 clearance. Who knows, it's all theories and guesses until I crack it open. Any thoughts on crankshafts? There is the nitrided, heat treated and maybe a normal one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViscousSquirrel Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Well, a friend of mine is a Suby tuner and when I was going with a new factory shortblock he told me to get the nitrided crank. Specifically he told me to buy this one: https://www.flatironstuning.com/subaru-oem-shortblock-w-heat-treated-crankshaft-09-sti-ej257 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 I am going to contact acl and king bearing see what they say about clearances. They have 3 part numbers for cranks it seems, the nitrided 12200AA430, the heat treated 12200AA330, both are now replaced by 12200AA610. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted September 13, 2020 Author Share Posted September 13, 2020 Some pictures of damage.... the bearing shit everywhere.....all my bearings are worn, not even 100 miles. Seems like something bad happened, back to the machine shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted September 13, 2020 Author Share Posted September 13, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted September 13, 2020 Author Share Posted September 13, 2020 cranks shot, 2 rods shot.... gotta get new oil pump, oil cooler as well, new seals etc.... time to start that fire and make offerings to the subaru gods! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViscousSquirrel Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Holy oil starvation batman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted September 13, 2020 Author Share Posted September 13, 2020 not sure what caused it. tolerances to tight, using the bigger 11mm oil pump instead of 10mm, the tensioner crapping out and forcing it back home for .5-1 mile, gasket sealer clogging a hole.... lots to think about. I used oem tolerances i believe, can't remember. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViscousSquirrel Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 not sure what caused it. tolerances to tight, using the bigger 11mm oil pump instead of 10mm, the tensioner crapping out and forcing it back home for .5-1 mile, gasket sealer clogging a hole.... lots to think about. I used oem tolerances i believe, can't remember. Any thoughts? That bearing looks like it was starved of oil and seized to me. Did you find any silicone stuck anywhere in the system? I can't really see the other bearing surfaces very well in the photo but you said another rod bearing was trashed? Did you plastigauge the bearings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted September 13, 2020 Author Share Posted September 13, 2020 (edited) only one rod bearing was thrashed, another the arp bolt wouldn't come out and snapped. Its hard to say the damage to the other bearings isn't from the one rod bearing disintegrating and contaminating the oil. I didn't build it. Edited September 13, 2020 by Tehnation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted September 13, 2020 Author Share Posted September 13, 2020 (edited) I gotta look into 10mm vs 11mm for high rpm single avcs applications. Or maybe my tolerances were to big so oil was bleeding out and not coating, which led to poor oiling due to lack of pressure on the 4th rod. Explanation for anyone not understanding: Oil pump in front which is directly connected to crank, feeds oil into the front of crank. Those holes on the crank are the oil galleys which feed the rod and crank bearings. So the oil starts at the front of the motor and pushes to the back, if the tolerances are too high then the oil will just pour out rather than pressurize, like putting your thumb on a water hose versus letting it pour out. If to many bearings are out of tolerance then the guy at the end of line gets starved because of all the wasted pressure ahead of it. That's how I know it works for a normal motor, I assume it's the same for the ej motor. I probably should have used a new crankshaft for my rebuild..... Edited September 13, 2020 by Tehnation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocoholic005 Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 I gotta look into 10mm vs 11mm for high rpm single avcs applications. Or maybe my tolerances were to big so oil was bleeding out and not coating, which led to poor oiling due to lack of pressure on the 4th rod. I highly doubt this was a tolerance issue; unless your tolerances were wayyyy off, this wouldn't be the cause. The larger pump would help with flow and compensate for larger clearances some; it doesn't increase pressure unless you shim it, just pushes more volume through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted September 14, 2020 Author Share Posted September 14, 2020 I'm not really familiar with bearing failure on these motors. Its hard to diagnose with the tensioner problem, the tensioner went and then this problem happened shortly after. There was no contact between the pistons and valves, but I was able to limp it home. Would driving out of timing hurt a bearing that badly that quickly? The other bearings being shredded could simply be the shrapnel from the bearing that shredded circulating through the oil. Could just be that there was crap in my oil.... who knows... I just want to make sure I wont run into the same problem again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViscousSquirrel Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 (edited) Without going through your entire 32 page thread, did you machine the crank and run thicker bearings? Back in my Mitsubishi days we used to have issues like this when turning the crank and using thicker bearings. The 6g72 in the 3000gt also had issues with clearance between the bottom of the pan and the oil pickup. So if you went over a speed bump too quickly and dented the pan it would starve the engine of oil. This isn't so much an issue in a Subaru but worth a check. How does your oil pickup tube look? Is it still seated properly, any silicone in it? Is it cracked? Are the bolts loose? Alternatively, I have seen quite a few engines get assembled without plastigauging the bearing clearances. If they were too tight, boom. On flat 4 engines in particular there's issues with people using too much sealant when assembling the block or when installing the oil pump. The silicone breaks off and clogs oil passages and all kinds of nastiness ensues. I have also seen blown turbos (also bearings) send shrapnel into the system which then scores a bearing and interrupts oil flow enough to spin a bearing. Then again I have pulled some engines apart with enough metal embedded in the soft bearing material to make me wonder how they ran at all. So this one is kind of a crap-shoot. If I were a betting man, I would bet that you would bend valves before your timing was off by enough to create enough preignition to obliterate a bearing. Not that Subaru's are extremely tolerant to such occurrences but still. ARP bolt snapped huh...I wonder if they were over torqued... Edited September 14, 2020 by ViscousSquirrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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