Scruit's engine build thread.

[fahr_side]

Don't ask me that, I'm somewhat biased.

 

 

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[rmoore5]

Just found the clutch disk I got from FBP is wrong. Checked my order - definitely says 2005 Legacy 5spd w/turbo. Let's see how long it takes to get it swapped out.

 

They sent me 30100AA883, which lists as 2007+, probably for the SMFW? I have the DMFW which needs 30100AA810. There's a week delay that I'm glad I found out now, not during install weekend.

 

Maybe the 2nd FB mistake in as many weeks:

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/my07-09-clutch-kit-my05-242300.html

[Scruit]

Spoke with FBP this morning. They are shipping a new disk today as an advance replacement, free shipping both ways.

 

Nice!

 

 

Now I'm just waiting on the last few bits like the timing cover seals, AVCS actuators and new oil pan from various places. Killer B pickup arrived. Turbo arriving tomorrow. Looking for hopefully start putting it together on Friday. I need to run through the rest of the install instructions and test fit new parts (that's how I figured out the clutch disk was wrong).

[rmoore5]

What difference did you find between the disks? The thread I posted above never got to the bottom line difference.

[Scruit]

So I checked the cam bearing clearances and found all 4 to be spot on. Good.

 

Then I checked valve clearances (Installed cams to torque spec w/oil, lobes up so no pressure on valves) and found almost all of them are too tight.

 

 

Driver Side

Intake (spec 0.0055-0.0095")

1 0.0015 TIGHT 503

2 <0.0015! TIGHT 499

3 0.0060 IN SPEC 501

4 0.0070 IN SPEC 496

 

Exhaust (spec 0.0118-0.0158")

1 0.0085 TIGHT 500

2 0.0085 TIGHT 499

3 0.0060 TIGHT 503

4 0.0095 TIGHT 500

 

 

Passenger Side

Intake (spec 0.0055-0.0095")

1 0.0030 TIGHT 496

2 0.0060 IN SPEC 498

3 0.0060 IN SPEC 495

4 0.0015 TIGHT 501

 

Exhaust (spec 0.0118-0.0158")

1 0.0070 TIGHT 494

2 0.0080 TIGHT 497

3 0.0080 TIGHT 499

4 0.0115 TIGHT 499

 

 

 

Some are really too tight. The 3-digit numbers are the numbers stamped on the bucket.

 

I need to get a micrometer that can measure the buckets, then order buckets that are thinner enough to bring the gap back into spec. Correct?

[Scruit]

What difference did you find between the disks? The thread I posted above never got to the bottom line difference.

 

The center section of the friction disk (with the springs) is wider than the inside diameter of the friction surface on the pressure plate, so the friction disk and pressure plate don't fit together.

[StkmltS]

With so many valves out of spec you may want to consider the Heiche budget method (thread here). It's a little unconventional, but since you need at least $240 worth of new buckets (12 x $20) it's a no-brainer if you're able to do it correctly.

[Scruit]

I set up my dial indicator to measure the existing buckets and got this:

 

Valve ID (D or P, then I or E, then # from front. ex. DE3 is Driver's Side, Exhaust, 3rd from front)

 

The two number are the stated size (eg 505/.199) and the measured size.

 

DI1 503/.198 508/.200

DI2 499/.197 505/.199

DI3 501/.197 505/.199

DI4 496/.196 500/.197

DE1 500/.197 508/.200

DE2 499/.197 508/.200

DE3 503/.198 505/.199

DE4 500/.197 505/.199

PI1 496/.196 500/.197

PI2 498/.196 500/197

PI3 495/.195 498/.196

PI4 501/.197 505/.199

PE1 494/.194 498/.196

PE2 497/.196 500/.197

PE3 499/.197 503/.198

PE4 499/.197 503/.198

 

Calculating required bucket sizes to hit dead center spec (I .075, E .138):

 

DI1 0.0015 needs + 0.0060

DI2 0.0015 needs + 0.0060

DI3 0.0060 needs + 0.0015

DI4 0.0070 needs + 0.0005

DE1 0.0085 needs + 0.0053

DE2 0.0085 needs + 0.0053

DE3 0.0060 needs + 0.0078

DE4 0.0095 needs + 0.0043

PI1 0.0030 needs + 0.0045

PI2 0.0060 needs + 0.0015

PI3 0.0060 needs + 0.0015

PI4 0.0015 needs + 0.0060

PE1 0.0070 needs + 0.0068

PE2 0.0080 needs + 0.0058

PE3 0.0080 needs + 0.0058

PE4 0.0115 needs + 0.0028

[Scruit]

So now I need to figure out if I can move buckets around to get more than 4 within spec. Need to plug this all into a spreadsheet and do the math.

 

Example, If DI1 is only 0.0015 and needs to be 0.0060 wider, and the current bucket is 0.200 then I need a 0.194 bucket, or a 493. But if I use the .196 from PE1 then that will increase the clearance on DI1 from 0.0015 to 0.0055. Right at the boundary of the spec, but still in spec. That kind of thing...

[rmoore5]

Scruit, I am willing to trade any bucket I have that you need.

I have these.

 

Bucket List:

Qty Bucket #

(1) 481

(1) 482

(1) 483

(3) 491

(3) 496

(1) 499

 

Let me know if I can help.

[Scruit]

Scruit, I am willing to trade any bucket I have that you need.

I have these.

 

Bucket List:

Qty Bucket #

(1) 481

(1) 482

(1) 483

(3) 491

(3) 496

(1) 499

 

Let me know if I can help.

 

Are those the actual or stated measurements? After 145k all of mine were 1-3 thousands on an inch thinner than their stated measurements.

[rmoore5]

That is printed size. After you swap yours around let me know what you need, actual measurement and I'll mic them. I think there are 3 brand new ones in the batch.

[Scruit]

The machine shop has asked for the heads back so they can fix it. I'm going to take them back tomorrow morning. Already put the heads on so the head gaskets are toast, but I'm using ARP studs so I can reuse those easily. Going to grab a new head gasket set and hopefully work on it again this coming weekend.

[Scruit]

That is printed size. After you swap yours around let me know what you need, actual measurement and I'll mic them. I think there are 3 brand new ones in the batch.

 

Appreciate the offer. The machine shop said that a valve adjustment is part of the blueprinting package I already paid for so they're happy to take the heads back and check them - if they are out then they will correct it.

[StkmltS]

Appreciate the offer. The machine shop said that a valve adjustment is part of the blueprinting package I already paid for so they're happy to take the heads back and check them - if they are out then they will correct it.

Merry Christmas to you!

[boxkita]

The machine shop has asked for the heads back so they can fix it. I'm going to take them back tomorrow morning. Already put the heads on so the head gaskets are toast, but I'm using ARP studs so I can reuse those easily. Going to grab a new head gasket set and hopefully work on it again this coming weekend.

if you never turned on the motor, the gaskets should be ok. This according to boxman (a home machinist). ymmv

[boxkita]

Appreciate the offer. The machine shop said that a valve adjustment is part of the blueprinting package I already paid for so they're happy to take the heads back and check them - if they are out then they will correct it.

 

be sure the machine shop is checking the valve lash as metric. The thousands of an inch method requires a much more precise measurement to get it right and most/all shops mess this up. Your dial indicator study of the buckets looses alot in translation to inches.

 

setting the lash too tight will cause bind & mis-fires.

[Scruit]

if you never turned on the motor, the gaskets should be ok. This according to boxman (a home machinist). ymmv

 

Maybe, maybe now. It's a multilayer gasket that seems to me that it would crush into place - for the $30 I'm just going to get new ones from Subaru.

[Scruit]

be sure the machine shop is checking the valve lash as metric. The thousands of an inch method requires a much more precise measurement to get it right and most/all shops mess this up. Your dial indicator study of the buckets looses alot in translation to inches.

 

setting the lash too tight will cause bind & mis-fires.

 

They are talking mm and I'm talking inhes. Either way, if they set the gap correctly in mm using the spec for mm then it should also be correct when measured in inches using the spec for inches.

 

Put another way... If someone says a piece of wood is 3 feet but I measure it and it's only half a yard then something is wrong.

[Scruit]

I talked to the machine shop this morning and showed them the page in the FSM I used for my measurement process. They agreed I was measuring correctly, and when i said I couldn't even get a 0.0015 feeler (the one that is paper thin, not a 0.015 which would be a good exhaust gap) he agreed some something is not right. They kept asking and confirming that I didn't move the buckets around - but they are ALL tight (even the 4 that are in spec are on the tight end of the spec).

 

If I had some loose and some tight then the buckets might have been in spec but then moved - but if they are all tight then...?

[boxkita]

So I checked the cam bearing clearances and found all 4 to be spot on. Good.

 

Then I checked valve clearances (Installed cams to torque spec w/oil, lobes up so no pressure on valves) and found almost all of them are too tight.

 

 

Driver Side

Intake (spec 0.0055-0.0095")

1 0.0015 TIGHT 503

2 <0.0015! TIGHT 499

3 0.0060 IN SPEC 501

4 0.0070 IN SPEC 496

 

Exhaust (spec 0.0118-0.0158")

1 0.0085 TIGHT 500

2 0.0085 TIGHT 499

3 0.0060 TIGHT 503

4 0.0095 TIGHT 500

 

 

Passenger Side

Intake (spec 0.0055-0.0095")

1 0.0030 TIGHT 496

2 0.0060 IN SPEC 498

3 0.0060 IN SPEC 495

4 0.0015 TIGHT 501

 

Exhaust (spec 0.0118-0.0158")

1 0.0070 TIGHT 494

2 0.0080 TIGHT 497

3 0.0080 TIGHT 499

4 0.0115 TIGHT 499

 

 

 

Some are really too tight. The 3-digit numbers are the numbers stamped on the bucket.

 

I need to get a micrometer that can measure the buckets, then order buckets that are thinner enough to bring the gap back into spec. Correct?

 

The exhaust side being too tight is due to a printing error in the the AERA reference manual they are using. Hand them the FSM with the clearances circled. If they do everything in inches, do the conversion (to 4 digits) for them as well as the range. Then tell them you want to be in the upper end of the range, so it all works out when the TB is put on.

[Scruit]

Called the machine shop - they're done. Yep, they were nearly all tight. All set to center of the ranges now. Will pick them up in the morning.

[Scruit]

Got the heads back. Machine shop advises new head gaskets and are paying for them.

[Max Capacity]

New HG's are a must. Do you have ARP studs ? or new head bolts ?

[Scruit]

I have ARP studs. Got new head gaskets from Subaru.

 

The clearances are in spec now for all valves except for one intake which is a little loose at 0.011. I'm going to mic the buckets again to see if I can swap a couple over to bring that last one into spec.