rhino6303 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Interesting. Took off the timing belt & pullies, cam pullies and oil pump. No smoking gun... The entire inside of the timing belt cover is coated with a fine mist of oil so I can't tell where it started from. The best I noticed was that the cam seals were not 100% seated and each tapped down about 1/16" more when I checked to see if they were seated properly. So, the plan is to put some UV dye in the oil, re-assemble everything but not the (timing covers) and then run the engine under a blacklight until I see where the oil is coming from (IF any more oil comes out - it may have been the cam seals) I've cleaned the face of the engine, and I'll do the same with all the pullies and rear timing covers. Did you remove the driver's side banjo/oil feed line at all? It could be leaking from the crush washers there. Just another idea to throw out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmoore5 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 This note on page ME(H4DOTC)-52 of the FSM concerned me during my assembly. NOTE: Do not apply liquid gasket excessively. Otherwise, the excessive liquid gasket may come out and flow toward oil seal, resulting in oil leaks. I took this to mean the small adjacent oil return passages could become blocked, resulting a build up oil pressure behind the cam seal. As with most Jinglish the translation and interpretation can be varied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 This note on page ME(H4DOTC)-52 of the FSM concerned me during my assembly. NOTE: Do not apply liquid gasket excessively. Otherwise, the excessive liquid gasket may come out and flow toward oil seal, resulting in oil leaks. I took this to mean the small adjacent oil return passages could become blocked, resulting a build up oil pressure behind the cam seal. As with most Jinglish the translation and interpretation can be varied. Is that for the assembly of cam bearings caps? Specifically the large ones that cover the pulley end of the cams? I was very careful not to use too much there because of the fine passageways. I guess I could run a wire through those passageways to check they are open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmoore5 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Yeah it's the cam caps / oil control assy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 It's gonna suck if I have to redo those caps - not sure if I will have enough access. Hope I don't wind up pulling the engine again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 The thing that is unclear to me about that bit about "excessive liquid gasket may come out and flow toward oil seal" is that I'm not sure if they are talking about the liquid gasket forming 'flash' (the bit that is "squeezed out") inside the cavity where the cam seals go... Or does it mean it might block those tiny adjacent oil passageways (if that is what they are). I don't know. I'd rather not pull the valve covers and cam bearing caps in-car if I can avoid it. I still don't have any solid idea of what is leaking, though. Edit: Even if there *was* any RTV squeezed out into the space where the cam seal goes then it's not there any more. I'm going to pull the bearing caps off to see if the RTV blocked the oil passages. (dunno why they don't just use a real gasket, really...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmoore5 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Yeah, that's why commented on the Jinglish. I was not clear on what was meant by "resulting in oil leaks". It would be nice to know where the oil is leaking from before going to the trouble of pulling the caps. Maybe this could inspected by pulling the cam seals? Of course they would have to be replaced, you may be able to save the seals if you pull the caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m159/Scruit/919845B2-EF2E-44F0-8E85-BB610A66E009.jpg After the oil control valve feeds pressurized oil to the AVCS solenoid on the intake cam, the oil then flows back into the valve cover through these two passageways. By being blocked, I instead had a pool of high pressure oil sitting behind a cam seal, blowing past the seal and leaking. In other words... http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m159/Scruit/smoking_gun.jpg I need to replace the seals and reassemble this with LESS RTV THIS TIME!! It is perhaps worth noting that the exhaust valve also had the AVCS drain passages despite not having AVCS. I suspect there is a full-AVCS version of this engine out there. Probably JDM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmoore5 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Damit Jim !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 First one to find a full-AVCS ej255 wins. Found it. My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m159/Scruit/919845B2-EF2E-44F0-8E85-BB610A66E009.jpg After the oil control valve feeds pressurized oil to the AVCS solenoid on the intake cam, the oil then flows back into the valve cover through these two passageways. By being blocked, I instead had a pool of high pressure oil sitting behind a cam seal, blowing past the seal and leaking. In other words... http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m159/Scruit/smoking_gun.jpg I need to replace the seals and reassemble this with LESS RTV THIS TIME!! It is perhaps worth noting that the exhaust valve also had the AVCS drain passages despite not having AVCS. I suspect there is a full-AVCS version of this engine out there. Probably JDM. Man I hope I don't have the same issue... See below: One little or fairly medium annoyance though: after the drive, I did check the engine bay for any leak. Looks like one or both of my cam seals are leaking . Took the cover off and saw a bit of fresh oil there. I don't know if the seals will settle or something. But I'll keep an eye on them. If they still leak, well TB+cam pulleys off again! Should be another 2.5 hr job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 When you checked the leak again with the engine on and TB cover off, could you actually see some oil flowing on the timing belt cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bermo Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m159/Scruit/919845B2-EF2E-44F0-8E85-BB610A66E009.jpg After the oil control valve feeds pressurized oil to the AVCS solenoid on the intake cam, the oil then flows back into the valve cover through these two passageways. By being blocked, I instead had a pool of high pressure oil sitting behind a cam seal, blowing past the seal and leaking. In other words... http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m159/Scruit/smoking_gun.jpg I need to replace the seals and reassemble this with LESS RTV THIS TIME!! It is perhaps worth noting that the exhaust valve also had the AVCS drain passages despite not having AVCS. I suspect there is a full-AVCS version of this engine out there. Probably JDM. Nice catch and thanks for sharing. Writing this down now for when I start to go back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 When you checked the leak again with the engine on and TB cover off, could you actually see some oil flowing on the timing belt cover? I didn't start it back up, just finished stripping it down. Here's a video of someone else with the same exact problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6lrd2JEP20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 ^ wow that's pretty bad. I cleaned up my tb cover when I first saw the oil. Did another 50 miles after that. Checked again. It was dry. Will check again in another 50 miles or so to see if it stays dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 K, been a while since I could spend time on this. Finally got back to it. I have a couple of new problems... 1) I scratched the crap out of the right intake cam seal surface when I pulled the seal. I'll swing by the machine shop on monday and see if they can fix it with jbweld and then turning it on the lathe back to spec, but otherwise I'm looking at a new cam. (Did this once before about 10 years ago when I knicked the seal surface of a transmission input shaft while cutting off the bearing race with a cutoff disk. Cost $30 and worked great. http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m159/Scruit/2B9EC570-A99F-4589-8273-5A7F22A61573.jpg 2) The bolts that Subaru sold me for the AVCS intake cam sprockets have a hole drilled right through the middle. When I thread this into the camshaft I can blow air through it and it comes out of a hole in the side of the camshaft which leads into the air space inside the cam cover - not an oil line directly. I know I haven't got the bolts switched with the exhaust because the exhaust bolts don't fit the AVCS sprockets. Is this normal? Do I have the wrong bolts? http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m159/Scruit/3083A192-A9A5-4511-B9AC-090F7F3D0603.jpg I looked for my old bolts but managed to cut myself digging through the old parts bin so I'm saying ffff... forget it for today. http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m159/Scruit/17CC09B8-EE73-4280-881F-67F525A5339C.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 How much RTV to use? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNlghZi21Wk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Yes, the hole is normal. I believe it plays a role with the avcs. Not 100% sure though. In any case, you do have that small cap centered in front of the intake cam pulley so that the oil won't leak. Looks like your hand hurts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 Ok, back to this. I've have some stuff to deal with life-wise but now I'm back on this project. Here's my current situation: - Engine reassembled up to the timing belt. Timing cover not on yet. - The oil is no longer leaking - I now have a dead miss on cylinders 1 and 3 (reported by ECU, confirmed by unplugging injectors) - The 1&3 injectors are firing (stethoscope, clicking) - The 1&3 spark plugs are firing (grounded spark body and confirmed spark) - The 1&3 spark plugs come out wet with fuel, leading me to believe fuel is getting in there. - The engine has an extremely lumpy idle, and doesn't like to rev - No other engine codes - Compression is 125psi on 1 (Passenger front). For reference, compression on 2 (Driver front) is also 125. This is cold engine, brand new SB. - Timing marks all line up. With crank at TDC#1 I have both single marks on the intake cam pulleys pointing up and the both double marks pointing down. The exhaust cams have both double marks lined up exactly with the double marks from the intake cams, and the single marks both point outwards. I'm kinda stuck here. I know the 2 & 4 are running fine so it's not overall fuel pressure. The things that come to mind are: - Low/no fuel pressure specifically on the 1&3 side (passenger) - Bad fuel pressure regulator on the passenger side?? (There's not a port on each side, right?) - 1&3 injectors plugged in backwards (will compare wire colors) - 1&3 coil packs plugged in backwards (will compare wire colors) - The TBs on that side not opening Beyond that, I'm pretty much out of suggestions. Except for stupid stuff like the intake cam being the wrong cam (this was replaced, but fit perfectly) or the spark not matching TDC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 One thing's for sure: white in the front and black in the rear for coil wires (i.e. cyl 1: white/ cyl 3: black). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 Wait - I have white back and back front on the 1&3 side...?? Stand by.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 Move along. Nothing to see here. xt2005bonbon: You ROCK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 So is she running now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Yes. Just gotta put he timing cover on and put the rad back in. Will hopefully be driving tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Good to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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