K&N Typhoon intake

[mwiener2]

Popular Mechanics Debunked the Tornado Air thingy and a bunch more products like it.

 

 

i just looked at the sight and their own picture (http://www.tornadoair.com/HowItWorks.php) showing how it works, also shows how it doesn't. They show their device taking a large diameter of air and making it into a small diameter swirling mess. It's a restriction in the intake casueing less airflow. They're netting their increase in MPG by decreasing the amount of air available and causing the ECU to lean out the mix.

 

 

silly stupid

[ekuhockey18]

First off.. I hope let me explain that I am in no means a mechanical expert and hopefully don't get flamed too badly on this, but.... I still can't imagine that more air can't hurt with a proper tune. I've got a K+N sitting in the garage right now all oiled up and ready to go, but gotta admit I'm kinda nervous to put it into a COBB AP stage 2 tuned car... figure I'd have to get a professional tune done somewhere to really take advantage of the added airflow b/c from what I understand, most of the gains from the AP are from readjusting the AF ratios to take advantage of the rich stock system. I've heard some Subie techs say its ok to run a CAI on a COBB tuned engine, but it seems that COBB recomends against it... so, for now I'm still running stock since I've got an AP (figure its their tune, so they should know better than a second hand source). I suspect that the ECU could adjust for more air into the system if the diameter of the intake tube is the same, but I"ve got to admit, I'm not sure how often the ECU readjusts itself to new conditions.... any thoughts on intakes on a stage two?

[mwiener2]

Cobb frowns upon using a new intake, but they say an aftermarket filter in the stock airbox is ok.

[UPSGuy]

Tout = Tin + (Tin x [-1+(Pout/Pin)^0.263])/Eff

 

Pin = between -.5 psig and -2 psig

Pout = 15 psig

Eff = 72%

Tin = 70 degrees F

 

* All calcs have to be done in Rankin (+460) and psia (+14.7).

 

T1 @ -.5 psig: 235.478

T2 @ -1.0 psig: 244.018

T3 @ -1.5 psig: 252.962

T4 @ -2.0 psig: 262.343

 

 

Intake restriction makes a difference to charge heating, which affects HP.

[mwiener2]

moved to powertrain

[AWDpower]

The largest restriction in our intake system is the turbo! What a suprise. Anything before it is a total waste of money.

 

Maybe removing the turbo will get better flow.

 

hmmmmm.

 

So you are saying the we need some form of a forced induction system to get air into the turbo?

 

If you are going to be sarcastic, you should at least do some research and be damn sure you know what you are talking about. Otherwise you may look silly when someone shoots your guesses and theories full of holes.

 

You are wrong in your assumption that the only restriction worth worrying about is the biggest one. All restrictions within the system add up. Even if the intake were not the biggest restriction, it is a restriction none the less.

 

 

Now this is just stupidity. Sure I guess you could seal it while you are at it. All I am saying is that a turbo can only push a certain amount of air. The turbine will not spin any faster due to more air being available. Your turbo is the largest blockage in the intake track. Turbo cars do not need highly free flowing airboxes. Hence the forced part.

 

Wrong. The turbo has to pull in air from the intake. The harder it has to pull to get that air, the more work the compressor has to do. The more work it does, the more it heats the air charge. When under boost, there is a pressure drop between the filter and the turbo inlet, because of the restriction of the air filter. The greater the pressure drop, (more vacuum in the intake) the harder the turbo has to work to pull in air. This will also affect how quickly the turbo spools.

 

 

 

I have worked around turbo cars for a long long time. The only people who claim to get big gains from an intake on a forced induction car are the people who make them and the idiots who bought them.

 

I don't know how many of you guys are new to turbos, but they are not magic. The turbos job is to force more air into the engine. This extra air is mixed with extra fuel to create more power. Thats it!

 

 

No, that's not it. Making power is not just about making boost. It's about making boost as efficiently as possible to reduce air charge temps. This puts more oxygen in the combustion chamber and allows more timing or leaner a/f ratios to make better use of that air charge. Any "idiot" can add boost to an engine. But someone who knows what they are doing can make a lot more power at the same boost level.

 

 

According to your logic the turbo can push more air than the airbox will allow. This simply isn't the case. What dictates the amount of air pushed into the engine is the exhaust speed (the hot-side of the turbo) and the size of the compressor wheel (the cold side). The reason the car has a wastegate is because without it the car would overboost causing catastrophic failure. Clearly the turbo is capable of pushing well more air than is needed or can be handled. This is the reason for the wastegate.

 

You are greatly confused. You could add quite a restriction to the intake of a turbo car, and still hit a high boost level. But you will make much less power for many reasons. The wastegate stays open longer, and the turbo works harder, to make the same boost level. But that air charge is hotter, and more work is required on the turbine side of the turbo, meaning more lag.

 

Here is a quick way to demonstrate my point. Go get a vacuum cleaner. Put a filter over the end of the hose. Hear that motor load up? That is your turbo pulling air through the filter.

 

 

Unless you are HEAVILY modifying your car, to the point where the turbo is too small the intake before the turbo does nothing.

 

The best way to gain power in a turbo car is More boost and less back pressure.

 

This is flat wrong. A well sorted out car can make more power with less boost then your method. And then it would absolutly blow you out of the water at an equal boost level. I'm sure you have seen WRC rally cars. They have to use a rule mandated inlet restrictor before the turbo to keep power levels down. I believe it's 34mm, pretty damn tiny. It kills the power potential of those cars. According to your theory, it shouldn't matter, since the turbo will suck the air in and make boost anyway. Well, those rally teams must be idiots too, because there are plenty of street WRX's that make more power then million dollar rally cars.

 

If you need some proof to back up my claims, I suggest you go pick up the book "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell. Do some reading before you call anyone else an idiot, and end up doing a good impersonation of one yourself.

 

Jason K.

[team23jordan]

on STis you have to port...umm i forgot which part..but you have to port it in order to gain power from an intake

if you don't, you lose power

 

i have perrin ram air intake that i got pretty cheap from here..slightly used

i think i gained just tiny bit at the high end but i think its just psycology thing

 

but it's a different story if you get a tune

for example, i'll be gettin custom dyno tune when i get my downpipe, electric cut out and uppipe. so far i only have intake and 3" custom catback

i'm expecting to gain AT LEAST 25whp and 30 whtq

[PGT]

Do some reading before you call anyone else an idiot, and end up doing a good impersonation of one yourself.

 

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt".

 

<--- PGT is a turbo n00b and thus keeps my pie hole closed

[924 turbo]

Man You are smart.

[AWDpower]

I am talking in generalities, I am not the type to write heated diatribe on a chat board.

 

Generality? This is what you said, how can you call that a generality? You sound pretty specific to me. You even put "nothing" in bold type.

 

Aftermarket intakes to nothing on a forced induction car. Looks like you butt dyno needs calibrating. Hey Jedi can you help him

 

I read Corky's book when it came out.

 

 

Maybe you should flip through it again.

 

According to you Subaru is restricting the intake before the turbo? I doubt it.

 

Doubt it? Not very scientific. For one, you claimed intakes were useless on ALL turbo cars. It is a fact that the air filter is a restriction. The question is how big of a restriction it is on our Subarus? And is the K&N enough of an improvement to notice, or worth the price? On one hand you have your "doubt it." On the other we have someone who actually put one on his car and claimed he felt a difference, and others have posted relevant dyno plots.

 

Jason K.

[NewScooby]

AWDpower well said!

 

I am fairly new to turbos but what I have read and learned from my dad and grandfather who have both raced with turbos lead me to believe your dead on!

 

My dad was drag racing with Water Injection turbo setups when I was 5 years old in the 70's.

[BoxerGT2.5]

Who needs the Playboy pics? Just chilllllllllllllll!

[-TT-]

anyone know who has a good price on a K&N panel filter?

[924 turbo]

Wow new turbo owners are really good at surfing the net.

[BoxerGT2.5]

This brings me to my next point. Do whatever the f^ck you want with your car.....it's your ride.

[924 turbo]

This brings me to my next point. Do whatever the f^ck you want with your car.....it's your ride.

 

Agreed. Spend $ as you will. There are not better places to go on a turbo car

 

I installed two for super cold air.

[PhilT]

All flawed information. I still say they are bollucks!

 

I just love a good, reasoned explanation

[foghat]

This brings me to my next point. Do whatever the f^ck you want with your car.....it's your ride.

 

+1

[AWDpower]

All flawed information. I still say they are bollucks!

 

How so? Which information is flawed? ALL of it? Or is that just another generality?

 

 

By generalities I am making broad sweeping statments.

 

 

Yea, that's usually not a good idea, especially when you aren't prepared to back it up.

 

So you are trusting a butt duno (remember this guy just paid $ for the thing) & K&N propaganda. So sad how trusting you are.

 

Well if I had to choose between your broad sweeping statement, or someone with actual expirience with the product, who would I give more weight to? Trust is a strong word. But I'd add it to the plus column along with other research if I were in the market for a K&N.

 

This brings me to my next point. Do whatever the f^ck you want with your car.....it's your ride.

 

 

Good point. Which is an even better reason for people to make sure they know what they are talking about, before they knock someone for a choice they made with their car.

 

Jason K.

[NewScooby]

$39.57 with free shipping from this place.

 

http://www.ajusa.com/cgi-bin/knfilt...a/google-200205

 

anyone know who has a good price on a K&N panel filter?

[DickDastardly00]

Lol at this topic:lol:

 

I'll tell you guys what my "Butt Dyno" thinks when I get my K & N Typhoon.

[rony]

All I have to say to this whole thread is.....

 

Do what you want, it's your car.

[o- c-uTe]

Amen!

[firedawgs]

There is just too much flamm'n going on. All he did was install a intake and he liked it. If he has a problem then we will hear about it.

 

I know that our intakes are good to about 280whp. I had a CAI in my WRX and had no problems and no tune. But with many mods a tune will always help.

[JDML]

Stock Subaru Cold Air Cowl induction + Removed intake silencer + Blitz NA OE Filter replacement = happy driver.