K&N Typhoon intake

[illt3ck]

there is so much misinformation in this thread it isn't even funny.

 

I love how a lot of people like to lay claim to knowing anything about modifying cars!

 

[mwiener2]

I just looked a little more closely at the Dyno plot from K&N much earlier in this thread. The car they used only had 150 miles on it.

 

150 miles is not enough to be doing dyno runs for multiple reasons. Our learning ECU is still figuring out which way is up. Could get into rants about break-in issues / fluctuations.

 

I'm sure a very long list could be made here.

[apexjapan2]

Oh noes, you actually looked closely at that plot :o Best go wash your eyes out, and take 2 Tylenol

[CHRISPY]

I have seen gains of 90-140RWHP from running an air filter versus no air filter or a screen on a turbo V8 setup.

 

This was in the 750-900RWHP range but air intake restriction DOES make a big difference on a turbo/supercharged car.

 

That being said I have no idea how efficient the stock Legacy intake is. (I have only had my legacy for a couple weeks)

 

Also I am not sure how the MAF/MAP setup is on the Legacy either....

 

Cheers,

Chris

[GTsleeper]

AWD made great points- so did others,but #1 thing is ALL about being efficient or making it more efficient! how hard is that to understand people, the turbo is the restriction on both sides. it was said why would subaru make a restrictive intake(in so many words)? well lets nit pic that then- air goes in a box from 1 or 2 places(muffed or unmuffed), though the filter(probably factory,the best)in box, then does a sharp 90 to the maf & start of intake tube- intake tube has 2- close to 45ish probably more degress in the bends with ripples to flex all over it and inside the tube (which deflects air- and disrupting flow,nah no way) also then attach 2 coolant hoses to the "RUBBER intake tube"which isnt a good conductor of heat...a yah to cool the coolant?-yah thats why their attach, thats it. and could keep on going to turbo inlet also, but not at this time. i will get back to turbo restriction & factory subaru- uppipe, they also had a great idea putting a cat in it thats not very restrictive-right. subaru wouldnt do that.best of all downpipe, sure never thought anything of it.till a week after a had the car i gutted the uppipe-had to remove the dp to do it & looked at it. said, man subaru really went all out, no bonders at all, its impressive, no restriction for wastegate gases, are free to flow-sure that metal plate in its way is a good thing,right? it will flow with the turbine gases no problem, make no flow restrictions,turbulence-no subaru would do that. factory is best! all aftermarket production should stop-there is no need u cant make it any better then factory. turbo is working the easyest stock-anything aftermarket just hurts it.hahahahah

all stock the intake wouldnt be a good 1st thing to do. for myself it wasnt, 1st was uppipe & pulley, then dp, tweek wastegate & solnoid, then got the k&n intake, before AP or ecu tune. the intake was the next restriction(sorry i mean,less efficient to my standards). only had k&n on a couple days so its still in relearn.but every mod ive done is nothing but better mpgs,power,efficientness, over all drive of the car.

 

sorry went off track,point

[sandwood]

AWD made great points- so did others,but #1 thing is ALL about being efficient or making it more efficient! how hard is that to understand people, the turbo is the restriction on both sides. it was said why would subaru make a restrictive intake(in so many words)? well lets nit pic that then- air goes in a box from 1 or 2 places(muffed or unmuffed), though the filter(probably factory,the best)in box, then does a sharp 90 to the maf & start of intake tube- intake tube has 2- close to 45ish probably more degress in the bends with ripples to flex all over it and inside the tube (which deflects air- and disrupting flow,nah no way) also then attach 2 coolant hoses to the "RUBBER intake tube"which isnt a good conductor of heat...a yah to cool the coolant?-yah thats why their attach, thats it. and could keep on going to turbo inlet also, but not at this time. i will get back to turbo restriction & factory subaru- uppipe, they also had a great idea putting a cat in it thats not very restrictive-right. subaru wouldnt do that.best of all downpipe, sure never thought anything of it.till a week after a had the car i gutted the uppipe-had to remove the dp to do it & looked at it. said, man subaru really went all out, no bonders at all, its impressive, no restriction for wastegate gases, are free to flow-sure that metal plate in its way is a good thing,right? it will flow with the turbine gases no problem, make no flow restrictions,turbulence-no subaru would do that. factory is best! all aftermarket production should stop-there is no need u cant make it any better then factory. turbo is working the easyest stock-anything aftermarket just hurts it.hahahahah

all stock the intake wouldnt be a good 1st thing to do. for myself it wasnt, 1st was uppipe & pulley, then dp, tweek wastegate & solnoid, then got the k&n intake, before AP or ecu tune. the intake was the next restriction(sorry i mean,less efficient to my standards). only had k&n on a couple days so its still in relearn.but every mod ive done is nothing but better mpgs,power,efficientness, over all drive of the car.

 

sorry went off track,point

 

cliff notes: GTSleeper > subaru engineers, grammar > GTSleeper

[JDM-STI]

Intake alone will make minimal gains. Intake with tuning will show better gains. Intake with supporting mods will make significant gains. There are plenty of dyno plots on the WRX forums showing gains between stock intakes and aftermarket ones.

 

Intakes will help turbo spool on stock cars and you will feel the difference in power in the higher RPM's. At least it did on my STI. We'll see on my LGT when I get it Monday.

 

AWD made valid points in all of his posts.

I'm a newbie here but not to Subaru's, turbos, and performance upgrades.

[John M]

Changing the intake won't change anything so drastically as to throw off your ECU and require a custom tune to correct for it. It isn't that big of a change. It's still a good idea to have the least-restrictive intake possible if you want the most power.

 

The heat conducting capability of the pipe material is pointless too. The air (a poor thermal conductor to begin with) is moving by too fast to absorb any heat on its 24-inch journey from the filter to the turbo.

 

I'm running a K&N drop-in (originally for a 3kGT/Stealth; they didn't make the LGT model then) and I'll keep it that way until I change the turbo. Then it'll be a "naked element on a stick."

 

Btw, I should also point out that it's now my one year anniversary of running 17 psi with only a MBC. Everybody was convinced it'd blow up by now. See ya next year

[JDM-STI]

If you really want to wake your factory turbo up, contact Scott Seigel at Subaru of Gwinnett and get yourself and Ecutek custom tune. You will not believe the difference over what you already have.

 

Changing the intake won't change anything so drastically as to throw off your ECU and require a custom tune to correct for it. It isn't that big of a change. It's still a good idea to have the least-restrictive intake possible if you want the most power.

 

The heat conducting capability of the pipe material is pointless too. The air (a poor thermal conductor to begin with) is moving by too fast to absorb any heat on its 24-inch journey from the filter to the turbo.

 

I'm running a K&N drop-in (originally for a 3kGT/Stealth; they didn't make the LGT model then) and I'll keep it that way until I change the turbo. Then it'll be a "naked element on a stick."

 

Btw, I should also point out that it's now my one year anniversary of running 17 psi with only a MBC. Everybody was convinced it'd blow up by now. See ya next year

[km580]

OK, I installed the K&N Typhoon today. It definately gives the car a great sound. I only drove it about a mile, so the duppah dyno results are not in yet. The install was really straight forward. The hardest part was putting the sleeve over the intake tube. I have a lot of faith in K&N products. I have them on all of my vehicles and have had great results.

[sandwood]

thanks for posting photos. I like that it has a shield but OTOH, how much air really flows into that tiny corner?

[km580]

There is a plastic shield at the botom of the fender well, I was thinking about trimming it a little to get some cooler air in there. But I think it's worth the $$$. Def. cool sound.

[mele63]

I watched "Horsepower T.V." yesterday. They took a '05 V8 mustang an put in on the dyno. Then they installed the K&N intake and put the car back on the dyno. Result= approx. 10hp.

 

I read Car & Driver this morning. K&N advertisement guarantees 11 h.p. on a C-5 Vette.

 

K&N boasts similar increases for our cars.

 

I don't know the reason why K&N intakes provoke so much hostility on this board. I'd get one if (1) I knew I wouldn't lose low-end power; and (2) COBB issued a map version compatible with afermarket intakes.

[km580]

I had no loss of power and I also checked on Cobbs site and read the FAQ's. Cobb recomends the Stage 1 91 or 93 for use with CAI's like K&N. There are a few CAI's that they say are no predictable but K&N is not one of them.. Cobb sell the Typhoon on his site so I'm sure they have problems with them. Also K&N states a 13.9 hp increase for our cars. http://http://www.kandn.com/dynocharts/69-8003TFK.jpg

[sandwood]

There is a plastic shield at the botom of the fender well, I was thinking about trimming it a little to get some cooler air in there. But I think it's worth the $$$. Def. cool sound.

 

not trying to be a smartass, just don't have access to my car right now - it looks like from the pics that the intake would be getting very little air from the front grille. is it supposed to be getting air from up front, or from below?

[mele63]

I had no loss of power and I also checked on Cobbs site and read the FAQ's. Cobb recomends the Stage 1 91 or 93 for use with CAI's like K&N. There are a few CAI's that they say are no predictable but K&N is not one of them.. Cobb sell the Typhoon on his site so I'm sure they have problems with them. Also K&N states a 13.9 hp increase for our cars. http://http://www.kandn.com/dynocharts/69-8003TFK.jpg

 

Can u post the link to this info. on COBB's site? My understanding was that CAI is a no-no with COBB AP.

[sandwood]

http://cobbtuning.com/legacy/powerpackages.html#cai

but this is not for 2005-06 lgts

 

and

http://cobbtuning.com/legacy/power-i.html#filter

for the panel filter

 

they don't recommend this new typhoon intake as far as I can see...

[mele63]

http://cobbtuning.com/legacy/powerpackages.html#cai

but this is not for 2005-06 lgts

 

and

http://cobbtuning.com/legacy/power-i.html#filter

for the panel filter

 

they don't recommend this new typhoon intake as far as I can see...

 

Agreed. COBB says the K&N panel filter is fine.....but their maps aren't designed to work with a CAI. Not that CAI's are bad, they just can't make their maps work with every CAI on the market, too much variation.

 

My take: CAI fine, with custom tune.

[John M]

If a car is "tuned" so close to the edge that a different intake can make it unsafe, I don't want that tune. I'll give up the final 5-10 hp in exchange safer operation -- just in case.

 

If you really want to wake your factory turbo up, contact Scott Seigel at Subaru of Gwinnett and get yourself and Ecutek custom tune. You will not believe the difference over what you already have.

 

If you look back though posts from the past year you'll find I have a fundamental disagreement with almost all forms of Subaru 'tuning." A lot of it is snake oil designed to scare people into tuning their cars "or you'll blow it up," making a fortune for tuners who somehow can command $300-600+ for these tunes. I agree that you can do a lot with the tuning but 99% of it is not required for more power.

 

I'd like to see what a tune could change on my car. It can't give me boost any sooner. The ECU already advances timing as far as possible without knock. All I could really use is a higher rev limiter - say 7200 like it should have come with.

[ekuhockey18]

Question out of ignorance here... wouldn't the ECU compensate/learn the new flow from a CAI?

[km580]

not trying to be a smartass, just don't have access to my car right now - it looks like from the pics that the intake would be getting very little air from the front grille. is it supposed to be getting air from up front, or from below?

The cone filter actually goes into the inside of the fender partially. The air inside there would be cooler than inside the engine compartment. I am going to poke around a little in there and see if there is anythig I can do to open it up a little.

[km580]

Can u post the link to this info. on COBB's site? My understanding was that CAI is a no-no with COBB AP.

 

This is frmo Cobb's site in the FAQ section.

Q. I have XYZ intake, do you have a map for it?

 

A. We can do mapping for quite a few intakes that are predictable. We have maps for the original(black) APS, Injen, and most of the short ram hot air intakes. The Blitz is about the only short ram that is not predictable. The car may not be as smooth or might miss out on some power since we have to tune even more conservatively with most of the intakes, but it will be safe, and run better than the factory ECU. Also, let us know what specific intake you have. We have had people order the map for the APS intake when in reality they had other intakes. Needless to say the tune was far from optimal. So far the AEM is about the only intake we have seen that is not predictable. We could make a map for it that would make sure that the car runs rich rather than lean, but the benefits would be far less than that if the customer just removed the intake and used the factory unit. We even have to do that on the dyno for the AEM intake. Also, even if the intake is advertised as not needing correction, causing no errors, or factory specifications, let us know. This is not the case on the intakes that we have tuned that make this claim, they do require correction. Just because the piping that the sensor sits in is the exact factory spec does not mean that there is no turbulence to throw the sensor off. In the end if you want the smoothest running car use the factory air box. If you want the noise and slightly better spool-up, remove the silencer in the fenderwell and toss a panel filter in the stock air-box. On the stock turbo you will make the same power as you will with an aftermarket intake. If you have any questions or want to get the best map, your best bet is to give us the most information you can and let us choose the proper map for your combo.

[km580]

I drove the car today for about 75 miles. There is a better throtle response and I have not noticed any loss of lower end power. Also I have not gotten any error codes. I am going to check my milage on the next fill-up to see if there is any diff.

Thee seems to be a lot of different opinions on this, I guess, all I can say is that I am happy with the results. I have used the CAI on other vehicles I have owned and have had great results. However, none of them were turbos. But I don't see that it would cause any damage. I put the car through it's paces today with no probs.

[JDM-STI]

Scott does some of the safest tunes for a Subaru. I mean, He works for the Subaru dealership. And you are wrong about being able to bring your boost on sooner. With a Perrin Electonic Boost Control Selenoid, you will hit full boost by 3000 rpms and hold it till 6000 and taper it down by redline. On my STI I hit 18.9 psi at 3000 rpms and hold it till 6200 rpms and it tapers safely to 15.5 at redline (7200 rpm). My timing and AFR's are perfect after the tune and the cars operates much smoother. 10.8-1 AFR. Perfect on our motors.

With an intake and TBE with the EBCS, My car dynoed 298 whp/336wtq compared to 240/240 stock. Stock turbo, injectors, and TMIC. So no, The tuning didn't do much. With these mods before the tune, I got 255/259.

You will not believe the difference a CUSTOM tune will make.

 

 

If a car is "tuned" so close to the edge that a different intake can make it unsafe, I don't want that tune. I'll give up the final 5-10 hp in exchange safer operation -- just in case.

 

 

 

If you look back though posts from the past year you'll find I have a fundamental disagreement with almost all forms of Subaru 'tuning." A lot of it is snake oil designed to scare people into tuning their cars "or you'll blow it up," making a fortune for tuners who somehow can command $300-600+ for these tunes. I agree that you can do a lot with the tuning but 99% of it is not required for more power.

 

I'd like to see what a tune could change on my car. It can't give me boost any sooner. The ECU already advances timing as far as possible without knock. All I could really use is a higher rev limiter - say 7200 like it should have come with.

[team23jordan]

^

that's why i got an UTEC

 

btw i get like 10 more miles per tank(average) after i installed my intake