LotusSeven Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 K&N and other "low-restriction" filter manufacturers often claim 10 to 20 hp gains with their flters, but carfully done (controlled temperature-repeat measurement) dyno tests in reputable magazines such as GrassRoots Motorsports consistantly result in only 2 to 4.5 HP gains, if any, and that's typical on normally aspirated engines only. On a turbo engine (with a blow off valve limiting boost), although the very slight reduction in intake restriction will result in the turbo working a litle less (less absolute compression-thus less heat added), the difference is very small and slight differences in intercooler temperature will be more significant. Ultimately, the turbo will just spin a few rpm less with the "low restriction" filter at the same boost level. Botton line: The only REAL way to tell is to do 3 or 4 dyno runs with careful control of the intake and intercooler temps. Seat-of-the-pants guestimates are rarely accurate, which is why true science always uses "double-blind" measuerments as well as independant duplication before any conclusions are drawn. Even with all of the above, I do use dual K&N filters on my racecar-I like the intake sound with the K&N's!! Heavy Metal Killed Beethoven Support Classical Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 bov's don't limit boost My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOXRPWR Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Jesus C#$#@ guys, there's a lot of angst in this posting. Thought I'd join the fray because I had a K&N Typhoon intake installed along with my 20G. I think it looks bitchin. But the sound affect is something you really need to consider before buying this thing. It makes a very noticable SUCKING SOUND when the car is accelerating at any rate. Once you reach stable speed, there is no sound at all. But move the throttle and you get a vacuum cleaner affect. It is by far the most audible mod that I've made from the interior cabin perspective. And that includes my new Greddy EVO2 catback that is really loud too. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/BOXRPWR/PICT0314.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/BOXRPWR/PICT0313.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/BOXRPWR/PICT0315.jpg As for the MUCH debated question of power gains from an intake, all that I can say is it sure seemed to help. My 20G dynoed by Harmanmotive got 28 hp more than another 20G installed on a Legacy did. However, in the spirit of full disclosure, my LGT had a Perrin TMIC and a catless 3" TBE. The other LGT had the stock TMIC and stock CBE. However, Dan Harman clearly felt that the K&N intake was contributing to the improved performance. Let the debate begin again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Jesus C#$#@ guys, there's a lot of angst in this posting. Thought I'd join the fray because I had a K&N Typhoon intake installed along with my 20G. I think it looks bitchin. But the sound affect is something you really need to consider before buying this thing. It makes a very noticable SUCKING SOUND when the car is accelerating at any rate. Once you reach stable speed, there is no sound at all. But move the throttle and you get a vacuum cleaner affect. It is by far the most audible mod that I've made from the interior cabin perspective. And that includes my new Greddy EVO2 catback that is really loud too. As for the MUCH debated question of power gains from an intake, all that I can say is it sure seemed to help. My 20G dynoed by Harmanmotive got 28 hp more than another 20G installed on a Legacy did. However, in the spirit of full disclosure, my LGT had a Perrin TMIC and a catless 3" TBE. The other LGT had the stock TMIC and stock CBE. However, Dan Harman clearly felt that the K&N intake was contributing to the improved performance. Let the debate begin again! Pull the intake off and but stock back on....then see what ya get. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwood Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 saying this thing is loud relative to that EVO2 exhaust is telling a lot. I _may_ be able to get before and after dyno readings next week. we shall see. getting out of the legacy game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Mor pics of Bandit!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
km580 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Mor pics of Bandit!!!! OK, here you go.......1981 TA 4spd. 3:73 posi 350 chevy 2-3/4" exhaust w/ cross over pipe & Flo-Masters. If anyone is interested, I'm putting it on Ebay soon. Fat people are hard to kidnap!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwood Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Mor pics of Bandit!!!! did I miss something here? seriously tho, I go back to my concern about how much air this things gets. can anyone straighten me out on this? air intake is squashed into a corner with a heat shield that undoubtedly deflects some of the air heading it's way. no wonder there is a giant vacuum cleaner sound if it is struggling for air. (this is a completely unscientific analysis, please feel free to debunk it) getting out of the legacy game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOXRPWR Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 No, I think there's plenty of air flow for the K&N to breath. While it looks confined in that corner of the engine bay, that is where the stock air box sits. With the resonator removed, there is a big hole for air to flow in. I would say that the confined space does probably act like an "amplifier" from a sound standpoint. By the way, either I'm crazy....or its gotten a lot quieter after about 100 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwood Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 you're probably just going deaf getting out of the legacy game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 you're probably just going deaf LMAO Now thats something only I will find funny. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 OK, here you go.......1981 TA 4spd. 3:73 posi 350 chevy 2-3/4" exhaust w/ cross over pipe & Flo-Masters. If anyone is interested, I'm putting it on Ebay soon. NICE!!! I think I found my next restoration project! And do that sucker EFI eith a crate engine. Mmmmmmm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khris_25 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I am thinking about buying a K&N typhoon intake. I’m just afraid that it will sound like the last intake I bought for my 02 impreza rs its sound (I don’t know how else to explain it) ricey like a Honda just plain loud, droney and echos. I have to admit I like it for a little but took it off really within a couple of weeks. Could some one explain how it sounds a little better or post a sound clip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
km580 Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 NICE!!! I think I found my next restoration project! And do that sucker EFI eith a crate engine. Mmmmmmm! I was planning to buy a Fast Burn 385 from GM but I bought the LGT instead. And I am NOT disappointed. Fat people are hard to kidnap!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magowin Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 All I heard was the BOV after I installed mine and a low grunt in the lower rpms. I'm probably getting tuned on sat at the TDC event so I'll see if they notice any hp gain from other cars with my current config tuned there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldc2335 Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 i cant believe i just read 9 pages of legacy intake argument and i dont even own the car yet, on the dodge forums i goto now, people work together with advice and support , here,,ya'll bash the shit outta each other with unsupportive info and smart ass comments....relax,, really some of you should get out more i dont get it, why would k&n, a million dolar company with tons of research and development design and claim gains that dont exist....that would only hurt thier outstanding reputation.. so mabye its not a constant 13hp gain through the entire rpm range but im sure it peaks up there.. someone said earlier that the less restriction the less the turbo has to work to pull the air in...bingo....how does this not make since... i also agree that the maf tube needs to be the same size for truly accurate readings. but what i dont understand it the argument over weather the maf sensor can read the increased air flow......hello.....isnt that its job...if it cant read that there is more air comming in then its a piece of crap and not doing its job.. and finally....if less restriction is not better than why the hell is everyone buying panel filters....i know its not for the long term cost bennifits over paper.... so bottom line,,,,it looks better,,,,it sounds better,,,,bov(bpv) is louder ,,,, its less strain on your turbo and a power increase(some is better than none...right?) so really whats the argument??????? just do what you want with your car,,, not everyone and afford to buy up/downpipes, turbo's, intercoolers or full stainless 3" exhaust...or mabye they just dont want to take thier warranty and flush it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 i cant believe i just read 9 pages of legacy intake argument and i dont even own the car yet, on the dodge forums i goto now, people work together with advice and support , here,,ya'll bash the shit outta each other with unsupportive info and smart ass comments.... Ain't it great! Welcome btw. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
km580 Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 i cant believe i just read 9 pages of legacy intake argument and i dont even own the car yet, on the dodge forums i goto now, people work together with advice and support , here,,ya'll bash the shit outta each other with unsupportive info and smart ass comments....relax,, really some of you should get out more Welcome LDC, all the bashing and smart ass comments are just a small part of this forum. We are all friends here and it's all in fun. Everyone has different opinions on things. There is A LOT of great information here. I have gotten some fantastic tips here. It's like anything else, you won't agree with everyone all the time, so don't get the wrong impression. When you pick up your LGT post some pix and have fun with the car. Fat people are hard to kidnap!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o- c-uTe Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 i cant believe i just read 9 pages of legacy intake argument and i dont even own the car yet, on the dodge forums i goto now, people work together with advice and support , here,,ya'll bash the shit outta each other with unsupportive info and smart ass comments....relax,, really some of you should get out more i dont get it, why would k&n, a million dolar company with tons of research and development design and claim gains that dont exist....that would only hurt thier outstanding reputation.. so mabye its not a constant 13hp gain through the entire rpm range but im sure it peaks up there.. someone said earlier that the less restriction the less the turbo has to work to pull the air in...bingo....how does this not make since... i also agree that the maf tube needs to be the same size for truly accurate readings. but what i dont understand it the argument over weather the maf sensor can read the increased air flow......hello.....isnt that its job...if it cant read that there is more air comming in then its a piece of crap and not doing its job.. and finally....if less restriction is not better than why the hell is everyone buying panel filters....i know its not for the long term cost bennifits over paper.... so bottom line,,,,it looks better,,,,it sounds better,,,,bov(bpv) is louder ,,,, its less strain on your turbo and a power increase(some is better than none...right?) so really whats the argument??????? just do what you want with your car,,, not everyone and afford to buy up/downpipes, turbo's, intercoolers or full stainless 3" exhaust...or mabye they just dont want to take thier warranty and flush it.... AMEN!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccorry Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 AMEN!!!!!! +1 .... some people on here need to get their heads out of the clouds. I would also be VERY interested in some sound clips from inside the cabin.... windows up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwood Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 one things for sure: this is a nicely made piece with very good install instructions. getting out of the legacy game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o- c-uTe Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 You know what? I am going to order my k&n tonight, YES!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwood Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 a lot of places are selling it now. shop around. getting out of the legacy game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW7RT Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 I had a K&N short ram when I had my WRX. I didn't have any problems that were noticable like cels, bad idle etc, only thing I notice was when you oil the filter becareful cause after a couple months of driving you'll start to see the oil residue in the intake tube if you over oil it. I figure that you just have to make sure you kept the MAF sensor clean. My friend had a generic brand intake and his car would throw cels and stutter all the time until he removed it. When I traded the REX, I sold him the intake and after he installed it there were no cels or stuttering problems. I think K&N makes good intakes, but if I was leaning the A/F ratio I wouldn't have known, did I lean it out probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malfeas99 Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 All flawed information. I still say they are bollucks! By generalities I am making broad sweeping statments. So you are trusting a butt duno (remember this guy just paid $ for the thing) & K&N propaganda. So sad how trusting you are. I have a perrin short ram. I have an ecutek tune. With just a retune and uppipe, I went from about 204/204 to about 238/273. Then we put on the intake and retuned. I put up 255/285. There, now you can continue acting like you know what you're talking about. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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