PGT Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 I'd own an NSX over an Esprit ANY day of the week. Not that I could fit it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegacySTI Posted July 29, 2005 Author Share Posted July 29, 2005 I think people are taking this post way too seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusDubya77 Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 I think the overall problem is that every single 16 year old kid has a Honda, and has massacred it "Fast & Furious" style.. SO of course there is some spite for them...They also always tend to think they are driving a sub-4 sec..11 sec 1320 blaster and want to race anything on the street. All in all Hondas are very well built and are extrememly reliable. Everyone I know with a Honda usually stays with Honda long after. Thank god the compact craze wasn't for Yugos!!! :woowoo:check out the Diamond Gray Metallic Monster!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 I think people are taking this post way too seriously http://www.illfindsomethingtoputhere.com/funforum/images/smilies/mswerd.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fancub Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Honda makes cars which are built to appeal to a very broad customer base. They are dependable and well-enegineered, but not that exciting...Accord, Civic, Pilot, Odyssey. The S2000 is an exception. Acura...likewise...very well engineered and up-market but very conservative. A good example is the comparison of the TL or TSX to the G35 Sport Edition and new IS350 and also the RL to the new Infiniti M. I like the fact that Subaru is building some of the few non-German fun-to-drive cars based on their extensive racing / rally experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 You have never driven an NSX or an S2000... or even an RSX-S or '99-'00 Civic Si. Straight line performance is not the point of these cars, it's the relationship between the car and the driver... which Honda has utterly perfected with those models. I dare you to toss around one of those cars, or even a 6-speed A-spec TL and tell me that it's not an enthusiast's car. My friend has an S2k, another has a type-s, Ive driven an NSX and I test drove the TL sorry to sound blunt but... The s2k was nice, the handling was great, but the thing was just torqueless it just made alot of noise and went nowhere. If I had some extra dough lying around I would buy one for a weekend car. They type S was the same way. Lots of noise not enough scoot... Tossing it through the corners my WRX at the time Modded vs Modded would decimate the car in every performance parameter. My friend had coilovers on the car turn is was great but through the turn and coming out it was still a FWD car. You could feel it its unmistakable. Adding throttle accelerating through a turn resulted in understeer. Having to baby the throttle out of a turn is somthing I am not used to. The NSX was very nice but not worth the price. IMHO. I rather get a C5 or C6 vette have better handling and MUCH better power. GM did a great job on the car. Are you joking about the TL? I test drove it before I bought the LGT even with the mushy USM suspension and the elcrapo RE-92's the LGT has hands down a more rewarding driving experience. Not that I don't respect honda. I had 2 accords a 95 EX and a 98 AV6. The first one I gave to my cousin with over 150,000 miles on it its got over 220,000 miles on it and its still going. The second a relative has. ITs got almost 150,000 miles on it going strong. If I wanted a good relaible point A to point B car with no fuss honda is the ticket. But the reality of the matter is that hondas can make a crack addict all asleep at the wheel. They are just boring. My 0.02... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malfeas99 Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 My friend has an S2k, another has a type-s, Ive driven an NSX and I test drove the TL sorry to sound blunt but... The s2k was nice, the handling was great, but the thing was just torqueless it just made alot of noise and went nowhere. If I had some extra dough lying around I would buy one for a weekend car. They type S was the same way. Tossing it through the corners my WRX at the time Modded vs Modded would decimate the car in every performance parameter. My friend had coilovers on the car turn is was great but through the turn and coming out it was still a FWD car. You could feel it its unmistakable. Adding throttle accelerating through a turn resulted in understeer. Having to baby the throttle out of a turn is somthing I am not used to. The NSX was very nice but not worth the price. IMHO. I rather get a C5 or C6 vette have better handling and MUCH better power. GM did a great job on the car. Are you joking about the TL? I test drove it before I bought the LGT even with the mushy USM suspension and the elcrapo RE-92's the LGT has hands down a more rewarding driving experience. My 0.02... I generally agree with you, which is why I currently own a Legacy and not an RSX or S2000 or TL. BTW, the A-spec TL has a stiffer suspension, brembo brakes, and 18 inch wheels.. so a lot of the issues you had with it would be taken care of. As far as the s2000 and NSX go, you can say what you want about how much they're worth, or how they don't have much low-end grunt, but they are incredibly well-engineered cars that are fun, predictable, and quick around a track, and make the driver truly feel like he's communicating with the car. The shift linkage alone is almost enough to buy one of those things. It comes down a lot to personal preference. Obviously things like turbocharged power or low-end torque are important to some, while high-revving, high-strung, highly communicable cars are preferable to others. Just don't tell me that Honda doesn't make an enthusiast's car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCDetails Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 So I should bash something and then tell people they are taking it too seriously? Perhaps I should start a thread about why being one race is better than being another race? If people get pissed is it because they are taking it too seriously? Legacy drivers are not eliteists I thought. What is so special about Subaru? So they are AWD and some have turbos. So what? I see a lot more interesting Hondas out there than I do Subarus. When you go to the track you will see far more Hondas than Subarus. You didn't buy a Legacy so you could go rally racing. Nevermind... The people those comments are directed to aren't going to get it anyway. Go ahead and go back to your "I'm better than people who drive Hondas" world and I'll leave your thread alone. Frankly I'm surprised that this thread is even allowed to continue. Since when are we allowed to bash other cars here? _________________________________________ “Cleanliness becomes more important as godliness becomes more unlikely.” O C D E T A I L S . C O M OCDETAILS BLOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdisco Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 My Civic never threw a check engine light 60k miles no probs. Can't say the same for WRX in less then 35k at the shop 3 or 4 times. Advantage Honda. But Sube is the more fun (see turbo). + "AWD is all I'll drive". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmm def Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 RobY: I have an S2k, if you drive it hard it's a pretty quick car. Like they say "Drive it like you stole it" and you will love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Mitsubishi? Please elaborate on your experiences with the "quality" of Mitsubishi. As a DSMer, I also have to at this. Although again as a DSMer, I must at you, Whitestar Pilot. -A <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 So I should bash something and then tell people they are taking it too seriously? Perhaps I should start a thread about why being one race is better than being another race? If people get pissed is it because they are taking it too seriously? Legacy drivers are not eliteists I thought. What is so special about Subaru? So they are AWD and some have turbos. So what? I see a lot more interesting Hondas out there than I do Subarus. When you go to the track you will see far more Hondas than Subarus. You didn't buy a Legacy so you could go rally racing. Nevermind... The people those comments are directed to aren't going to get it anyway. Go ahead and go back to your "I'm better than people who drive Hondas" world and I'll leave your thread alone. Frankly I'm surprised that this thread is even allowed to continue. Since when are we allowed to bash other cars here? OK, OCDetails... I think you need a valium or something... The original post in this thread was a harmless top ten list. Getting stark raving mad about that is about as worth while as getting mad at David Letterman every night. It comes down to A) Light hearted humor, and we all just have a bit of a chuckle, or B) we all get upset, and the point is lost, while we end up at each others throats. I am less concerned with forum members seeming elitist, than with them seeming overly mean. Not that OCDetails is, because that isn't true, but several tempers do seem to be flareing over something pretty minor. This is a Subaru list, so there is bound to be a bit of ribbing toward other brands. Domestic, European, or other Asian brands. When it gets to down-right mean, I agree it has gone too far. I mean we're not exactly trying to be like the G35 list here (See, that is an old joke, and it's funny, and minor.) So a Honda doesn't appeal to some. So it does to others... Personally, I am not a fan of Honda cars. They, IMHO are bland, except for the performance cars that have a high dollar to power ratio, or are FWD. That is just me. On the other hand, I don't think hondas are terrible. Just not my cup of tea. They are reliable, and they tend to offer far more options than Subaru. I also ride a Honda motorcycle. I haven't exactly been a fanboy of Subaru lately either, and have had plenty of choice words for some of their decisions. But performance-wise the turbocharged Subarus have it all over any <$35k offering by Honda with more than two doors, and Subarus aren't Wrong-wheel-drive, which is important to me, and some others. Give some, take some. For every person like me who isn't into Honda cars, then someone else is gonna come along and say that if you like Hondas, you're the coolest, and then hate on a Ford, GM or Chrysler, or Subaru, even. BTW, actually it is Opinions that are like orifices. Everybody has them, and usually more than one, and the output can be negative. I am just saying that this started out as a freindly jest, and it HAS been taken way too seriously, Long before Page 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Since when are we allowed to bash other cars here? Comeon guys, we all know t3h SRT-4 is f45t4r than * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewScooby Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 I have thought the same about FWD cars for years, until I took a 30 mph turn at 90 in a Mini Cooper S. Nobody talks about their "Honda" at the company picnic. If you drive a Honda, then you are not a driving enthusiast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brahtw8 Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 . . . and don't even get me started about that $70,000 NSX that nobody in their right mind would shell out for back then in the 90's, when it was in the same price range as an exotic with balls, like the Lotus Esprit. Let's get you started . . . The NSX kicked the crap out of the Esprit, the 911, the 348, the C4, and everything else in 1990, when it was introduced at an MSRP of around $60k. Thank Honda for making a reliable exotic that sent the rest of the world back to the drawing board. Let me guess. You have never driven an NSX? I'm your huckleberry . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Hondas Rule, Subarus Suck!!! Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franklin Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 #11 Twice the torque at 1/2 the rpm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatChips107 Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 i hate my subaru paint.. im sure some genius at honda is smarter than some guy sleeping in the subaru lab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 I have thought the same about FWD cars for years, until I took a 30 mph turn at 90 in a Mini Cooper S. Nobody talks about their "Honda" at the company picnic. If you drive a Honda, then you are not a driving enthusiast. Man, Those are really a blast to drive... hheheheheheh I couldn't agree with you more, always thought about "performance" FWD cars are not a nice combination, but after driving the Mini Couper S I changed my mind really... Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005garnetGT Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 yeah, but the mini woudl be better if it were RWD..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 yeah, but the mini woudl be better if it were RWD..... BLASPHEMY!! Rumor is the '07 Cooper S will be AWD and TURBO. Can you say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 The mini is the mini. and a bit of an abberation. The Mini has always been front wheel drive. The only way to go to get any interior room in that matchbox. The thing is, with the wheels punched all the way out to the corners of such a small light car, and comparatively little power, with correspondingly little weight, the car can handle well, and still accelerate due to the power/weight ratio. The big thing about minis, are that they are SO light that the rear end can be un-loaded and actually cause the car to oversteer, countering the tendency of the front to plow (which is also alleviated by light weight.) The new minis aren't as simplistic as that, and do weigh more, but the characteristics still apply, and BMW has spent a lot of development time, money, and experience making that little box handle so well. Many consider it to be hands-down the best front drive handling car. So, to say that FWD can be good for handling because Minis do pretty good... is a bit misleading. That is saying that the pinnacle of FWD technology, wide track, and light weight can be considered to be a good handling car. That means all FWD are lesser, and they do worse. Basically equating the top-line FWD with the average to above-average of the RWD and AWD alternatives, in terms of handling. That still doesn't bode well for FWD performance, especially considering that pretty much all other FWD cars have to deal with more weight, which helps cause understeer. And either they are less powerful than the mini, and thus not as good of performer, or they are more powerful, and tend to torque steer more. Rear wheel drive with Front wheel steer is just so much more inherently suited to performance automobiles, no way around it. There is a reason that Honda makes the S2k and NSX with RWD, not front. A FWD S2k would have been cheaper, based on the Civic or Accord Coupes. But it is an honest sports car, and wouldn't have been with FWD. AWD is also well suited to performance, but also has it's weight, drag, and complexity downsides. When anything besides good weather and good tarmac come into the mix, then the downsides of AWD seem pretty small. However, for those sunny day roads, RWD is about as pure as it gets, especially with independent suspension, and a torque-biasing differential. Oh, wait. I have that out in the parking lot... gotta go! C-ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Let's get you started . . . The NSX kicked the crap out of the Esprit, the 911, the 348, the C4, and everything else in 1990, when it was introduced at an MSRP of around $60k. Thank Honda for making a reliable exotic that sent the rest of the world back to the drawing board. Let me guess. You have never driven an NSX? I'm your huckleberry . . . Yeah but this isnt exactly 1990... Honda is still selling the same car for that rediculous price. That car is WAY overdue for a redesign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brahtw8 Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Yeah but this isnt exactly 1990... Honda is still selling the same car for that rediculous price. That car is WAY overdue for a redesign. My comment was made in response to a post that was specific to the early 90s. As for the current model, it is overpriced and the end of production has been announced. The successor is due in a few years with V10 power. I would note that actual selling prices of new NSXs are not at the $89k MSRP but rather in the low $80s or high $70s, and the NSX continues to be one of the best sports cars in resale value. Honda has also offered a very competitive lease of $799 month in years past. I may pick up a 2002+ NSX in a few years when they have dropped to the low $50s or high $40s, or perhaps a Zanardi, but most likely I will just keep improving my old one. 261 rwhp and 202 rwtq from a nearly stock 3.0 liter V6 (exhaust and intake, but stock airbox/filter) is nothing to complain about, particularly when it only has to motivate 2980 pounds. We must also not forget the advantages of gearing, as the NSX has extremely tall gears that allow more power to the ground at a given speed than lower RPM, lower geared competitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gire Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 I think people are taking this post way too seriously Agreed. But I have owned Integras and Civic Si's in the past and they were a blast to drive. Nothing wrong with an economical sport compact that can hang with more expensive cars in the twisty mountain highways with suspension mods that are extremely affordable. Plus, they are a great starter car for young people due to their safe understeering FWD nature and non-turbocharged horsepower. Various buddies crashed many a 5.0 Mustang and RWD BMW's 'cause they were too much car for an inexperienced dumb kid... All that being said, I love my Leg GT as it is a huge upgrade from my last Honda, in styling, horsepower and everything else. Hondas are fun to rag on as everyone has them and they are generally slower than BMW, Subaru, Lexus, etc, but they fill a different need to many other consumers and enthusiasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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