AndreyK Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Just curious how much you got dinged on duty.Did they ship USPS? Did you buy it direct from primative racing. Thanks I am interested as well. How much did it cost in total to get it to Canada? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfoyle Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Update... tried again to get the rear diff cover on today... Found a local friend (thanks Dujo!) that had the offset 17mm wrench I needed. Was even able to break both bolts free of their rust and corrosion... unfortunately after loosening a bit, the entire bolt would turn, rather than just the nut! Attempted to wedge the cover in with the wiggle room that we had created, but the rubber gasket (or whatever it's called) that's between the diff and the frame wouldn't allow us to get the plate all the way to the bolts. And then to top it all off, couldn't even re-tighten the nuts, since the whole bolt would turn (and the other end of the bolt is apparently located INSIDE the rear diff) . Gonna have to take it to Alberto at Motive to see what he can do with it... It'd be pretty ridiculous if you had to take apart the rear diff just to tighten/loosen the bolts that secure it to the frame... Hopefully with an air gun maybe he can avoid this... Will update after I see him... Seems like this is a lot harder than it should be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandborn Posted December 12, 2012 Author Share Posted December 12, 2012 Pfoyle: Are your troubles stemming from corrosion? I'm now terrified that when I have time this weekend that I will be learning new cuss words because of the difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 anti-seize and do not overtighten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfoyle Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Pfoyle: Are your troubles stemming from corrosion? I'm now terrified that when I have time this weekend that I will be learning new cuss words because of the difficulty. Yes, most likely... It appears there is some rust/corrosion on both the bolt and the nut... initially it took quite a bit of leverage to break the nut free... it turned about 2 full rotations (just a guess) and then the friction between the nut and the bolt apparently exceeded the friction between the bolt and whatever it touches (can't tell, as the end of it is inside the rear diff), and thus the bolt would just turn with the nut... As a guess, if there was no rust on the bolt, I would think the nut would spin freely after your break it loose... but living in the NE, there is no such thing as no rust/corrosion on the underside of a car that has seen 2 winters... Hopefully you'll have better luck with less salt/corrosion in Texas! anti-seize and do not overtighten. Tried anti-seize... may try "polishing" the bolt, to see if I can get the nut to spin freely, but it seems unlikely. Also tried holding the bolt with a pair of pliers, but the space is so tight that the round bolt just spins in the pliers... Overtightening is not a concern or a problem, cause I can't tighten it at all! And this is the first time these parts have been touched since leaving the factory, so it's hard to blame Subaru for tightening the nuts on the rear diff too much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dew2far Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 My skid plate saved my ass the past few days. We got 12"+ of snow last weekend and it created a real lunar surface on the roads (thanks MN-DOT). I lost track of how many times I heard stuff banging under it. The OE plastic belly pan woulda been toast for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Tried anti-seize... may try "polishing" the bolt, to see if I can get the nut to spin freely, but it seems unlikely. Also tried holding the bolt with a pair of pliers, but the space is so tight that the round bolt just spins in the pliers... Overtightening is not a concern or a problem, cause I can't tighten it at all! And this is the first time these parts have been touched since leaving the factory, so it's hard to blame Subaru for tightening the nuts on the rear diff too much! Ah, I misunderstood -- I thought you were trying to get the cover you had already put on off. You're trying to get a stock one off to put an aftermarket on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfoyle Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Ah, I misunderstood -- I thought you were trying to get the cover you had already put on off. You're trying to get a stock one off to put an aftermarket on? 2010 LGT doesn't come with a rear-diff cover... but in order to install the Primitive one, you have to loosen the bolts that connect the rear diff to the frame and slide the cover between the frame and the diff... Succeeded in loosening the nuts a bit, but not enough to slide the 3/16" cover in between... so now my diff is loosened and not protected! Fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfoyle Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Also, islandborn, if you can get someone to give you a hand, I think that will be helpful... you need to lever the diff as you slide the plate up, so having a friend to lend a hand is useful. 2 of us were ALMOST able to pry enough to get it on, so with a little less corrosion, you might be able to get the clearance you need... we were really close... hope you have better luck! Let me know how it goes, and if you find any tips or tricks that might help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Are those the ones which go through the large diff/subframe bushings? If so, it's possible you actually are free of whatever is on the far side, and instead you are corroded to the bushings. Unfortunately I don't know much about the 5th gen rear end and what's going on. Got any pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfoyle Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Are those the ones which go through the large diff/subframe bushings? If so, it's possible you actually are free of whatever is on the far side, and instead you are corroded to the bushings. Unfortunately I don't know much about the 5th gen rear end and what's going on. Got any pictures? Yes, I think it's the same ones... up high, facing the rear... the nuts are on the outside of the frame, facing the spare wheel well... the bushings are on the inside (facing forwards), between the frame and the diff. I'll throw it back up on the ramps tomorrow and try to snap some pics... not sure how clear they'll be, as it's a tight squeeze, but I'll see what I can do. Unfortunately I think I know the problem and just don't think it's something I'm equipped to handle with hand tools... I very much appreciate the help though! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dujo Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 ^ It really is due to the corrosion on the bolts. The bushings and bolts both move freely (in the crossmember, but together with the diff). Just not quite enough. If we could have gotten that sucker a little more loose we would have had it. pfoyle: Definitely shoot those suckers a couple times with pb blaster or similar (let it sit for a few hours and hit it again ... do it several times). It will penetrate between the threads and chemically alter the rust to loosen it. The rust will still be in the threads clogging them, but at least it won't be frozen to the metal from whence it came. If you can get something to hold tight enough on the bolt while you spin the nut, you should be able to get it to go. Maybe a c clamp that is levered into the right position so that torquing on the nut causes it to wedge against the frame rail or something and hold tight. Hope I'm explaining that so it makes sense. These bolts really do appear to be threaded in to the differential. It seems like it's a major support point, but really how does Subaru expect one to get at those bolts without dropping the entire crossmember/differential/drivetrain and opening the diff, which seems crazy. The right air ratchet, might be able to spin them off, but I've never seen one that I think would fit. It almost seems like it requires a specialty tool to do it the easy way (like an offset box wrench, but air powered). Chaulk this one up in the same category as turbo-down-low-next-to-the-road-salt design choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckseleven Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 It seems like it's a major support point, but really how does Subaru expect one to get at those bolts without dropping the entire crossmember/differential/drivetrain and opening the diff, which seems crazy. Chaulk this one up in the same category as turbo-down-low-next-to-the-road-salt design choices. Yeah, I'm sure the two are related. The heatsoak-inducing-and-inefficient-header-turbo design is much better. Back on topic, it's a shame the stock plate covering the turbo needs to be removed for this skid plate to fit. It would be nice to keep it intact for the added protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfoyle Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 The heatsoak-inducing-and-inefficient-header-turbo design is much better. We might not be so sarcastic if/when our turbo cooling lines rust through and fail! Mine have SIGNIFICANT corrosion after just 2 years... looks pretty bleak for the future... unless the built up rust/corrosion prevents it from rusting all the way through... which seems optimistic! Back on topic: Attached are some pics I took of the rear diff and bolts/nuts/bushings in question... tried to apply my limited photoshop skills to label some important parts, but let me know if anything is unclear... Not sure how helpful this will be, but everybody likes pics! Now off to HarborFreight to pickup some PB blaster and give that a shot... fingers crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 That's a lot of rust and corrosion under there for 2 years.... Road salts? GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dujo Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 ^ Welcome to Wooostah. Dollah twenty five, please. New England roads = salt galore. My wagon is a bit of a nightmare underneath. No functional issues yet, but I will be replacing my header and probably motor mounts at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Looking at the FSM, what you're looking at as a bolt there is a stud. Sounds like it's been turned out of the diff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 To add to that -- if the unthreaded body of the stud will fit through the opening, you can probably wedge something to provide force against the frame & nut and back the whole thing out, then separate the nut & stud or replace. As far as how to get it torqued back in without dropping the rear subframe/diff, well, .. I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dujo Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 ^ These very thoughts just occurred to me. If the bolt (stud) is spinning, then we're probably unthreading it from the diff, which again might provide enough space. If the stud bottoms out in the diff casing, then there's no problem torquing it back on. Righty-tighty until the stud stops, then righty-tighty on the nut. If the stud screws into the gearing inside the diff, that would be ... umm ... bad. I would be very careful not to unwind that stud all the way from the diff. If it comes out, it might be a real challenge to get the threading to line up again to get it back in. Note, if you get in to trouble with the nut spinning when you want the stud to turn, you can always put a second nut on to freeze the two which will then force the stud to turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Be careful with that stud. The diff cover which it threads into is aluminum. There is no gear in the diff that the stud threads into. GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 And with that kind of corrosion, why on earth would you even attempt to remove those bolts without PB blasting them first, several times? GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfoyle Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Very interesting thoughts about bolt vs stud... I'm gonna go see if I can tighten it back down and get rid of the play that Dujo and I created yesterday... if I can tighten and get rid of that gap, it must be a stud... if it just spins forever and never tightens, it must be a bolt... correct? Then, if it's a stud, I'll try and create a bit more space to get the plate on... Great thoughts... thanks guys! If you don't hear from me in the next hour or 2, it's possible the diff fell... send painkillers and/or paramedics. Edit: Nevermind, not gonna loosen the studs to get the diff cover on... that seems dangerous and potentially more problematic than it's worth. Will work on breaking the nut free... if that proves impossible, I MAY have to revisit the stud... but I'll cross that bridge if I have to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I know for sure that it is a stud, not a bolt. I used to work on Datsun 510's and 240z's and they used r180 diff which are very very similar to the r160's in our cars. the studs are attached to the diff cover only. yes, turn it back into the diff. but don't torque it so much that you strip the threads in the aluminum diff cover. It should bottom out in the cover, not keep turning all the way through to the inside. Clean the threads as much as possible and spray with pb before you try taking the nut off again. GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfoyle Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Yes, just confirmed what GTeaser/ShadowImg/Dujo said... tightened the stud back in and am blasting it with PB (just did second application)... will keep at it until I get the nut to turn, rather than the stud. Not really anything else I can do to loosen that nut, correct? Edit: It occurs to me we really dodged a bullet yesterday Dujo! If I/we had just kept loosening, we could have really created more of a problem! On the other hand, if we had loosened just a LITTLE more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Heat. Do not mix the penetrating oil and the heat though, make sure it's good and clean before you torch it. Be wary of torching bushings, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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