ehsnils Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Did you guys tell your local dealer that yet ? If not you shouldn't get one! Maybe you should organize a "pester your dealer for diesel" day. If a lot of dealers gets customers asking for the diesel then maybe something happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEVENN Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Hi guys. Here in France, 80% cars are using diesel: gas is $2.2 per liter (!), diesel $1.9... But really few people bought Subaru diesel cars, except some Imprezas... And less and less people is buying Subaru cars here... I tried a diesel Forester once, great engine, but I heard about troubles... I'm still running E85 in my 3.0R SpecB, 180.000 kms without troubles, and $1.3 per liter here... I think it's a better idea... And my car run better, smell better, feel better (oil is as new when I change it...). P.S.: sorry for my English... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I'd even go for a diesel at this point. The hybrid surely will be an interesting alternative, but I still wanna row my own gears...now for the Mrs. however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 ok the first friday of every month go to your dealer and say your going to buy a car.. then do all the stuff.. and then they ask the options you want.. say you want the diesel 6 mt they say not available walk out and say your getting a vw Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Hi guys. Here in France, 80% cars are using diesel: gas is $2.2 per liter (!), diesel $1.9... But really few people bought Subaru diesel cars, except some Imprezas... And less and less people is buying Subaru cars here... I tried a diesel Forester once, great engine, but I heard about troubles... I'm still running E85 in my 3.0R SpecB, 180.000 kms without troubles, and $1.3 per liter here... I think it's a better idea... And my car run better, smell better, feel better (oil is as new when I change it...). P.S.: sorry for my English... Interesting - since over here in Scandinavia buying a French car means that you buy trouble. No more troubles on the Subies (or Foresters) than any other brand. The turbo engines are a bit more sensitive than the NA engines, but that's not unique for Subaru. The first year diesel engines had some issues, but that has been resolved. Of course - The problems for the Euro impacts France and the price of vehicles from outside the Euro zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 so reminder to go bug your subie dealer day is today ... Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEVENN Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Interesting - since over here in Scandinavia buying a French car means that you buy trouble. No more troubles on the Subies (or Foresters) than any other brand. The turbo engines are a bit more sensitive than the NA engines, but that's not unique for Subaru. The first year diesel engines had some issues, but that has been resolved. Of course - The problems for the Euro impacts France and the price of vehicles from outside the Euro zone. Sure, l won't buy a French car, too much troubles... For the diesel engine, l think it's the better one in 4 cylinders. Why didn't they offer a diesel H6!? It would be amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 ^ woah there baby steps.. the merican government hates diesel like electric cars so they have to suck! how the v10 tdi toureg got in is beyond me ! Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahoseman Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 The Toureg V10 was OK because it was a V10. As long as a diesel engine is huge, it's approved. I'm not much of a conspiracy theorists, but when it comes to diesels in the USA, I'm suspicious of federal policy. Modern diesel engines are incredibly efficient, powerful, and clean. But for the most part, the only ones granted access to the US market are either less than stellar engineering or enormous engines that require large fuelling just by their size and would not suit passenger cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEVENN Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Diesel isn't clean! Maybe efficient, but without pleasure: 5000rpm max sucks... I think direct injection with ethanol is the best, for power, clean and pleasant engine! And it smells good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanGT Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 The Toureg V10 was OK because it was a V10. As long as a diesel engine is huge, it's approved. I'm not much of a conspiracy theorists, but when it comes to diesels in the USA, I'm suspicious of federal policy. Modern diesel engines are incredibly efficient, powerful, and clean. But for the most part, the only ones granted access to the US market are either less than stellar engineering or enormous engines that require large fuelling just by their size and would not suit passenger cars. Not sure if you're serious...the modern diesels imported into the US are all smaller engines e.g. VW 2.0, BMWs 2.0 in the 328d, MB 2.1 twinturbo in the E-class, GLK class are all smaller engines. In their 'bigger cars', you find the 3.0 V6 turbo as in Audi's A6, A7, A8, Q5, and Q7. Same size v6 in BMW's X5, 535d, and MB's ML350 Bluetec, GL350Bluetec. And all these modern diesels are very very advanced. I don't think that you know that the direct injection technology in gasoline engines came from diesel engines. Common rail injection with piezo-electric injectors have been in use in diesel engines for a very long time. These injectors can inject up to 7 times per combustion cycle. Because of the challenge to make them burn cleaner and leaner, these technologies exist. Some are starting to trickle down to gasoline engines. This is why you see Ford Focus gasoline engine boasting 40mpg hwy. So your 'less than stellar engineering' comment makes absolutely no sense to me. . . I have enough drama for now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEVENN Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Off corse we know this technology came from diesel cars, and l think it will be better than diesel... Diesel is dangerous! Everybody runs diesel here, and when "modern" filtrers are auto-cleaning, everything goes in the atmosphere... it's worst than catalytic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanGT Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 ^^^ You may know but dahoseman may not. That's why I quoted him. :spin::spin: . . I have enough drama for now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWSPECB Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Diesel isn't clean! Maybe efficient, but without pleasure: 5000rpm max sucks... I think direct injection with ethanol is the best, for power, clean and pleasant engine! And it smells good! Diesel may not be the cleanest but it is far cleaner today than it was 5,10,20,50 years ago. My 2008 1 ton diesel maaaaaaay puff a bit of smoke if I really step on it, yes it is tuned. Same truck from 2000 would block the sun. Even truck's newer than mine have gotten better with the introduction of DEF. Oh and 5,000 rpm not fun? Ever drive an 8,500# tuned truck? I think you may change your mind. My truck is faster than my (now wife's) 08 spec b. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 i dont think the diesels are more efficient.. they get better mpg's because there is ~ 20% more heat in diesel fuel. i just like the technology and torque. Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 The Toureg V10 was OK because it was a V10. As long as a diesel engine is huge, it's approved. I'm not much of a conspiracy theorists, but when it comes to diesels in the USA, I'm suspicious of federal policy. Modern diesel engines are incredibly efficient, powerful, and clean. But for the most part, the only ones granted access to the US market are either less than stellar engineering or enormous engines that require large fuelling just by their size and would not suit passenger cars. Diesel isn't clean! Maybe efficient, but without pleasure: 5000rpm max sucks... I think direct injection with ethanol is the best, for power, clean and pleasant engine! And it smells good! i dont think the diesels are more efficient.. they get better mpg's because there is ~ 20% more heat in diesel fuel. i just like the technology and torque. I think that the border between diesel and gasoline engines is being eroded and that soon the difference between them is very small. Right now I'm involved in a project running LNG in a diesel engine (no big secret that such technology exist, just look here: http://www.westport.com/products/engines/15) and the tech there is to inject the LNG first and then a small diesel squirt to ignite it. From that it's pretty easy to extrapolate that you can replace the LNG with any fuel that can be handled as a liquid (Ethanol, gasoline, methanol etc.) or gas and that has a lower willingness to ignite than diesel, including gasoline and pure ethanol. As long as you don't get the idea that nitro may be a good idea since that is one of the greatest engine killer fuels known, but you get one heck of a bang out of it for the short life the engine has. Another fuel that's tried out is DME: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2013/06/dme-20130607.html, http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/09/volvo-biodme-20090918.html which is injected into the engine the same way as diesel is injected. Just a different pump and injector to suit that fuel. As for diesels and their ability to run clean - sulfur and how much part of the fuel that is long carbohydrate chains plays a role. It is also only lately that the understanding of the mechanisms behind soot forming in diesels has started: http://www.pci.uni-heidelberg.de/pci/e_index.html?http://www.pci.uni-heidelberg.de/pci/cschulz/e_engine_soot.html Please keep in mind that the engine Rudolf Diesel (hence the name ) designed originally was intended to be run on pure coal, but solids are a tad hard to manage, so it was soon changed over to liquid fuel. In any case - the cars that we run on our roads are far from the worst causes of contamination in the world right now - cargo ships are. Cargo ships runs on the worst crud that you can call liquid fuel that you can think of, and it has to be heated to be used. That fuel when it's cold can be used to build roads. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioLkFD7E1C0]Smoking ship - YouTube[/ame] The smoke coming out of one of those buggers is almost thick enough to fuel several cars. In the video above it's probably fueling a lot of cars (and some people) in LA. Diesel locomotives aren't clean either as can be seen here: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HOI-DoEYo8]Alco Diesel Locomotive smoking it up at IRM 2012 Diesel Days - YouTube[/ame] In any case - car diesels have been getting a lot cleaner the last few years. The lifetime of a passenger car is about 10 years, and that means that (for Europe, North America has similar requirements) we still have a lot of cars conforming to the Euro 3 level that came into effect at 2001. Next year the Euro 6 level comes into effect (but some vehicles are already on the road for that standard). That level is reducing the permitted emission of particles to 1/10th of the particles that a Euro 3 vehicle is permitted to. The permitted NOx limits are down to 16% of the Euro 3 level. I would say that the big deal right now (together with shipping industry) is starting to be the markets outside Europe, North America, Australia, Korea and Japan when it comes to emissions. India is emerging into emission control for vehicles, but many other markets are getting the vehicles that conforms to Euro 3 even today. And if you can't smell or see the exhausts of a vehicle it means that it's a relatively clean vehicle. Not that it's healthy to inhale the fumes, but compared to a 1960's bus almost any vehicle of this decade is way better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahoseman Posted October 5, 2013 Author Share Posted October 5, 2013 ^^^ You may know but dahoseman may not. That's why I quoted him. :spin::spin: That was my point about modern diesels, which is why they are available in the market now.... and with a lot more coming soon. I was mostly speaking of the odd history of passenger-car diesels in north america. I would assume anyone that appreciates diesels knows that they are "direct injection". It's entertaining reading car reviews or articles that treat direct injection like it's a novel cutting edge technology when it's over 100 years old. A fair number of advances in gasoline engines are transfers from diesel technology. Like ehsnils said, the line is getting blurred. That's especially true with the Skyactiv engines from Mazda in which the gasoline and diesel operate with the same compression ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 and the skyactive mazada is approaching the same economy as a 1990 cavalier Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahoseman Posted October 6, 2013 Author Share Posted October 6, 2013 and the skyactive mazada is approaching the same economy as a 1990 cavalier I agree that it's a little frustrating how little progress has been made with fuel economy and why it seems to have been highest in the late 80's vehicles. However, there are more things in the equation. Some motorcycles would also get substantially better mileage than either car, but that doesn't tell us much. The 1990 cavalier got a combined 26mpg with 95hp weighing 2359lbs http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&path=1&year1=1990&year2=1990&make=Chevrolet&model=Cavalier&srchtyp=ymm A 2014 Mazda 3 gets a combined 34mpg with 151hp weighing 2969lbs http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&path=1&year1=2014&year2=2014&make=Mazda&model=3%204-Door&srchtyp=ymm So a Mazda 3 weighs 26% more, has 59% more horsepower, and gets 31% better combined fuel economy. If a Mazda 3 had no modern features adding extra weight, didn't have to comply with modern safety ratings and had an engine producing half the power, it would probably be a better comparison and fair better as a pure mpg vehicle. Now that I'm done playing devil's advocate ......... I'm also a little frustrated also that an economy-minded person could buy a a car in 1988 (Honda CRX specifically) that outperformed most vehicles in mpg over 20 years later. over 40mpg city, wow http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&path=1&year1=1989&year2=1989&make=Honda&model=Civic%20CRX%20HF&srchtyp=ymm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 ^ yea but i know a lot of 1990-97 2.2 cavaliers that got better than 35 mpg. and a lot of it would be aerodynamics as highway mpg's are as affected by weight as much as wind resistance. Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItnStln Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Nice article on diesels and explanation of cost.... http://www.practicalenvironmentalist.com/automobiles/subaru-diesel-cars-usa.htm Good article, thank you for posting it. I would love a diesel Subaru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItnStln Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I sell diesel engines for stationary use. Generators and Stationary fire pumps. CA has been on Tier 3 since January 2011. 5 years ago, a 250 HP diesel engine cost $10,000. Today, under Tier 3 requirements, it costs $35,000. That's just crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItnStln Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 If Subaru offered a diesel engine in the states that would likely be my next car. My wife is looking at a new impreza sport premium... I'd take that in w/ a 2.0L diesel in a heartbeat! Who offers an all wheel drive diesel hatchback in the US? I believe only Audi. I think that if Subaru did this too, it would create competition. And I'd have one in my garage in a heartbeat, especially if it came in a manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 ^ i dont think audi sells diesel and awd.. i only have seen the a3 tdi here and the a3 as far as i know is only fwd with the diesel. the toureg came diesel and awd i believe but its stupid expensive. Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItnStln Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 ^ i dont think audi sells diesel and awd.. i only have seen the a3 tdi here and the a3 as far as i know is only fwd with the diesel. the toureg came diesel and awd i believe but its stupid expensive. You're right, my apologies. I do think some of the sedans are diesel and all wheel drive, but I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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