"Studdering" Fix Released

[emorphien]

I don't believe it exists in newer cars...there's a certain number of ECM/ECU's identified that were affected.

 

As for myself, they claimed that they could not find anything wrong with the car. The service manager stated that I could bring the car back, and take a tech out with me, to reproduce it, but not today, since they were about to close when I got there. I will be going back next week, sometime, to reproduce the issue for them. On the other hand, everything else that they had to fix is mostly fixed...so that's a good thing. I will let you know how the story progresses!

Ok, that's kind of what I thought. I haven't noticed it on any recent one I've driven, and mines a recent build so it should be safe i hope .

[Opie]

Cliff Notes:

 

No TSB, case by case basis as determined (unfortunately) by each individual dealer, key is you need to get them to call the Subaru Tech Line with your concerns.

 

Reflash Only applies to ECM's with the CID#'s listed on Page 6 of this thread

 

All the car's built since the new version became availible (and all of the '06's) will already have the new programming.

 

Resetting your ECM over and over just for the studdering isn't the best thing to do...your also erasing any of the "good" things the ECM has learned regarding your driving habits.

 

Your car will like you better (and run better, regardless of which flash it's running) with a quality, hi-octane fuel. Best results come from "Top Teir" fuels.

 

I am not a Tech, I'm a Service Advisor at Mastro Subaru

[inthedeck]

Opie, any idea what the number of this 'Tech Line' is, in case the service dept. happens to 'not know' what it is? This way, I can always state that I have it...? Any advice will be all good...when I go back to take a tech with me, on the road. Again, thanks for all the help!!!

[Deer Killer]

We now have reprogramming available for 2005 Legacy Turbo toreduce the surging feeling during moderate acceleration and for code P2097.

Did we all miss the obvious because of the thread topic? :eek:

[fzanetti]

We now have reprogramming available for 2005 Legacy Turbo toreduce the surging feeling during moderate acceleration and for code P2097.

 

PLEASE FIX THE GODDAMN PROBLEM SOA!!!!!

 

Geeezzzz...

 

I really trust COBB will do something to change this before SOA...

 

:-)

 

Flavio Zanetti

Boston, MA

[ekuhockey18]

I REALLY hope so... I still think its sad that we have to go outside SOA to fix this problem

[jt51]

I don’t think we have to go outside SOA to get this fixed, but we might have to go outside to get results. First, I would report it to the NHTSA, http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/, I would use Engine Turbo. Second, every time we go to the dealer with a complaint about this; studdering, stuttering, bumbling, acceleration faltering issue, it is an incident for your states Lemon Law, even if they say they can not find or duplicate or replicate the problem. The problem exists, it IS a safety issue. When enough people complain, there will be a proper fix. Because REDUCING the defect is not a fix.

[mkalbarc]

^^

well put

[smkscrn]

Having that Subaru Tech Line phone number would be HUGE to have when showing up at your dealer.....Just freekin tell them to call this number with you there if they giving you crap about it being "something else" or "normal". This way they have the number and you can get the satisfaction that they are calling them with you there........and to see there face when they learn there really is a recognized issue:D .

 

Joe

[Deer Killer]

Having that Subaru Tech Line phone number would be HUGE to have when showing up at your dealer.....Just freekin tell them to call this number with you there if they giving you crap about it being "something else" or "normal". This way they have the number and you can get the satisfaction that they are calling them with you there........and to see there face when they learn there really is a recognized issue:D .

 

Joe

They will refuse to call because "They have no reason to"

[mkalbarc]

^^

Put an up-pipe up to their heads and I'm sure they will make the call

[smkscrn]

seriously though - if someone has the number....post it, I would like it and Im sure others would as well....

 

 

joe

[rkl303]

I'm sorry but I've read this thread up to page 13 and have been wondering what this studdering problem is. Does it occur when you are starting to move the car. I know for my car if I try to go too low it starts to shake a little and that has a huge surge of power pulling me above the 1.5k RPM mark even though I was only trying for 1k, even though I am no longer on the clutch or gas.

[DKB_SATX]

I'm sorry but I've read this thread up to page 13 and have been wondering what this studdering problem is. Does it occur when you are starting to move the car. I know for my car if I try to go too low it starts to shake a little and that has a huge surge of power pulling me above the 1.5k RPM mark even though I was only trying for 1k, even though I am no longer on the clutch or gas.

 

At least for me it's MOSTLY in the 2500-3500 RPM range on part-throttle acceleration. Having driven manual transmission cars for 25 yrs I know what causes it when you're trying to accelerate in too high a gear from too low an RPM, which was the first thing the service writer asked me about when I initially brought up this problem... then he asked me if I burn Super in the car (after some 250k miles in turbocharged cars, I know about THAT too.)

 

It sounds like you're just needing to downshift... 1k is low rpm for a modern, normal-to-small displacement 4cyl to make much power.

 

DKB

[TurboBrett]

Here's a long thread about it.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3932&highlight=studdering

[eles1]

I'm sorry but I've read this thread up to page 13 and have been wondering what this studdering problem is. Does it occur when you are starting to move the car. I know for my car if I try to go too low it starts to shake a little and that has a huge surge of power pulling me above the 1.5k RPM mark even though I was only trying for 1k, even though I am no longer on the clutch or gas.

 

search

[Variant]

So... I just got my car back from this "fix" ... and I definitely confirm what was said earlier by Dinglehoser....

 

The problem is definitely NOT FIXED. I would go so far as to say that if it is ANY BETTER AT ALL, it is VERY MINOR... the stuttering/shuddering/surging (note the lack of the not-real-word "studdering") is just as bad as before the "fix." Lame.

 

Honestly.. I wouldn't have wasted my time having this done if I had known it would be this ridiculous. Count another member going the Cobb route to fix this...

 

Unless the ECU learns to not be stupid over the next couple hundred miles or so and this goes away (I'm betting it wont), my recommendation is this: Don't waste time having this done and missing your baby. I regret it.

 

SOA!!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: FIX THE PROBLEM FOR REAL!!!! DONT WASTE MY TIME! The Legacy 2.5i doesn't do it... at all. Period... why does the top of the line GT do it? FIX IT!!!

[eles1]

So... I just got my car back from this "fix" ... and I definitely confirm what was said earlier by Dinglehoser....

 

The problem is definitely NOT FIXED. I would go so far as to say that if it is ANY BETTER AT ALL, it is VERY MINOR... the stuttering/shuddering/surging (note the lack of the not-real-word "studdering") is just as bad as before the "fix." Lame.

 

Honestly.. I wouldn't have wasted my time having this done if I had known it would be this ridiculous. Count another member going the Cobb route to fix this...

 

Unless the ECU learns to not be stupid over the next couple hundred miles or so and this goes away (I'm betting it wont), my recommendation is this: Don't waste time having this done and missing your baby. I regret it.

 

SOA!!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad: FIX THE PROBLEM FOR REAL!!!! DONT WASTE MY TIME! The Legacy 2.5i doesn't do it... at all. Period... why does the top of the line GT do it? FIX IT!!!

That's exactly what I was afraid of... Thanks for the info.

[eldiablo]

Went to my local dealership for my first oil change today. Out of curiosity I asked the 2 gents behind the counter if they've gotten many complaints about the studdering problem. Before I could finish my sentence, the one guy rolls his eyes and walks out the door. The other dude gets real defensive and says, "Haven't seen that memo from SOA!" "Sure," I tell him, "I'm just curious to know if any customers have complained about it since I personally will be complaining about it at my next scheduled service if it hasn't fixed itself." Not a single one he says gruffly.

 

I explained that many dealers are being told by SOA to have the ECU reflashed on problematic vehicles, and thought they may want to be aware.

 

Boy do I hope this thing fixes itself.

[fzanetti]

Went to my local dealership for my first oil change today. Out of curiosity I asked the 2 gents behind the counter if they've gotten many complaints about the studdering problem. Before I could finish my sentence, the one guy rolls his eyes and walks out the door. The other dude gets real defensive and says, "Haven't seen that memo from SOA!" "Sure," I tell him, "I'm just curious to know if any customers have complained about it since I personally will be complaining about it at my next scheduled service if it hasn't fixed itself." Not a single one he says gruffly.

 

I explained that many dealers are being told by SOA to have the ECU reflashed on problematic vehicles, and thought they may want to be aware.

 

Boy do I hope this thing fixes itself.

 

Really shame on SOA, they should fix this, could we organize like a petition, with x number of signatures and send it over to SOA???????

 

Something to complain or to send a message, that we are NOT happy with this defect....

 

Really trust more COBB/ECUTEK then SOA, unfortunatelly...

 

Flavio Zanetti

Boston, MA

[GranTourer]

Went to my local dealership for my first oil change today. Out of curiosity I asked the 2 gents behind the counter if they've gotten many complaints about the studdering problem. Before I could finish my sentence...

Which dealer was this at? I may want to avoid them, they sound like they won't take care of your problem. If you go back to have it fixed soon, let us know how it goes.

[Opie]

I think there are some big mis-conceptions regarding this studdering issue...and I would argue that a majority of the studdering issues would stop if people:

A) Would stop resetting their ECM's every other week.

B) Use a Top Tier Fuel

C) Stop monkeying with things on the car you really don't understand.

 

Then the people that do really have a problem might be able to get it resolved.

 

When I first got my car I had some studdering, especially after about 1,500 miles. The car was then bone-stock.

 

The only mod I've done to my car that could affect the engine is an OEM STi Up-pipe (cat-less) that I installed at around 2,000 miles. This immeadiatly seemed to help "reduce" the studdering but not take it away completely. Over time however the studdering eventually went 99.9% away now to the point that I haven't noticed any studdering in easily the last 5,000 miles.

 

My car is a very early build date and the ECM is still original (no SOA reflash, no Cobb, no ECUtek, nothing) but it has never been reset in the over 15,000 miles of driving it's done. I personally think part of the studdering is a learning phase in the ECM that it eventually learns around. And I believe that my studdering would have gone away even without installing the up-pipe. It seems many of the members here feel that they should reset the ECM once the studdering begins and I personally feel that is a large part of the problem.

 

Another part of the problem is fuel. Having worked at a dealer for some time I have seen what happens when the wrong grade, or bad fuel is added to a car and the results can be very dramatic. The problem here is that even though the pump may say 92 Octane you never know what is really coming out...did the tanker driver fill the right type in the right tank, are these tanks new or could they have chunks of contaminants in them? You never reaqlly know what you are getting. I think by only using quality "Top Tier" fuels the car is much happier. I luckily have a Chevron right outside my neighborhood and have used nothing but Chevron fuel in my car since new.

 

Here is a good article I grabbed from the latest issue of Car & Driver of how fuel alone can affect you engine's operation: http://www.subaruchallenge.com/Wills/TopTierFuels.pdf

 

I will not post the Subaru Tech Line's number, your dealer has that information and can contact them with the proper information that tey will be asking for, if you have a concern getting satisfaction from your dealer I suggest you call 1-800-SUBARU3 and let them know.

[mkalbarc]

BAH!

I'm at around 2500 miles and the"studdering" sucks. I am stock. I will not reset the ECU so hopefully it will stop in the next thousand miles or so... Doubt it though.

[inthedeck]

B) Use a Top Tier Fuel

 

Another part of the problem is fuel. Having worked at a dealer for some time I have seen what happens when the wrong grade, or bad fuel is added to a car and the results can be very dramatic. The problem here is that even though the pump may say 92 Octane you never know what is really coming out...did the tanker driver fill the right type in the right tank, are these tanks new or could they have chunks of contaminants in them? You never reaqlly know what you are getting. I think by only using quality "Top Tier" fuels the car is much happier. I luckily have a Chevron right outside my neighborhood and have used nothing but Chevron fuel in my car since new.

 

 

Opie, I agree that some people may be using/not using top tier fuels. However, I have NEVER reset my ECU...unless the dealer has done so, without my express knowledge. As for gas, even though you have been using TOP TIER fuels since you bought the car new, why did you STILL have the issue? And what if some of us don't have access to these 'TOP TIER' fuel stations...what are we supposed to do then? Deal?

 

I wouldn't think that you would give out the number... ...just thought I might try and ask.

 

As for right now...according to another member who has had this 'fix' for the ECM/ECU, apparently the situation has still not been resolved. Another one of those, 'I will have to deal' types of scenarios. Oh well...what can I do. Guess I am just going to have to stay out of the range in RPM's where this happens...that's all.

 

Thanks again, for the info. and the beginning of this thread. I knew I should have NEVER bought another 1st year car! -- but aside from this, and other minor issues, it's a blast.

[Deer Killer]

I think there are some big mis-conceptions regarding this studdering issue...and I would argue that a majority of the studdering issues would stop if people:

A) Would stop resetting their ECM's every other week.

B) Use a Top Tier Fuel

C) Stop monkeying with things on the car you really don't understand.

 

Then the people that do really have a problem might be able to get it resolved.

 

When I first got my car I had some studdering, especially after about 1,500 miles. The car was then bone-stock.

 

The only mod I've done to my car that could affect the engine is an OEM STi Up-pipe (cat-less) that I installed at around 2,000 miles. This immeadiatly seemed to help "reduce" the studdering but not take it away completely. Over time however the studdering eventually went 99.9% away now to the point that I haven't noticed any studdering in easily the last 5,000 miles.

 

My car is a very early build date and the ECM is still original (no SOA reflash, no Cobb, no ECUtek, nothing) but it has never been reset in the over 15,000 miles of driving it's done. I personally think part of the studdering is a learning phase in the ECM that it eventually learns around. And I believe that my studdering would have gone away even without installing the up-pipe. It seems many of the members here feel that they should reset the ECM once the studdering begins and I personally feel that is a large part of the problem.

 

Another part of the problem is fuel. Having worked at a dealer for some time I have seen what happens when the wrong grade, or bad fuel is added to a car and the results can be very dramatic. The problem here is that even though the pump may say 92 Octane you never know what is really coming out...did the tanker driver fill the right type in the right tank, are these tanks new or could they have chunks of contaminants in them? You never reaqlly know what you are getting. I think by only using quality "Top Tier" fuels the car is much happier. I luckily have a Chevron right outside my neighborhood and have used nothing but Chevron fuel in my car since new.

 

Here is a good article I grabbed from the latest issue of Car & Driver of how fuel alone can affect you engine's operation: http://www.subaruchallenge.com/Wills/TopTierFuels.pdf

 

I will not post the Subaru Tech Line's number, your dealer has that information and can contact them with the proper information that tey will be asking for, if you have a concern getting satisfaction from your dealer I suggest you call 1-800-SUBARU3 and let them know.

I'm calling this...

 

A. Wtf??? Find me anyone who says the stutter increases after a ECU reset. Better yet, make a video of you doing this and then subsequently demonstrating stutter for proof.

 

B. Top tier fuels are not necessary, the car is sold in the NA market to run on 91 octane, it must be designed with enough tolerance for the available gas. Yes, "tolerance" this is called "engineering". Nevermind the gas issue is bullshit, actually I'd believe the car should run smoother if you put 87 in, as the ECU is in full panic mode and pulling back timing to it's lowest levels. Not to mention even with the 91 requirement many of us are running 93/94 octane.

 

C. First of all, you would be surprised as to what level some people on this board "understand" their cars, and to what level subaru affiliated people do not. Only the people who've monkeyed with their cars, to say, a stage 2 monkey, seem to have livable results. I'm not even talking about these people though.

 

The ECU is not a magic box, because if it was, it might actually work properly. This is an algorithm problem. It probably really needs to be taken up with Denso.