Glenn Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Can you cite where you found that law? Per the EPA, which I confirmed in NY, PA, NJ & CT so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_rex Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Oh crap! Everyone, get those cats back on, QUICK! i don't think i said that anywhere in my post. so :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: right back at you dR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Can you cite where you found that law? Regardless, the pre cat doesn't have any affect on emissions. As a matter of fact the WRX STI doesn't even have a pre cat nor do most vehicles under 4000lbs that are turbo charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCDetails Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Confirming in some of the smallest states (as far as area) in the country doesn't mean that the law holds true for every state. If its an EPA standard then the law would be uniform for every state in the country. Where are you seeing that the EPA is saying this? I'm not doubting you, I'm just interested in where you are getting the information. _________________________________________ “Cleanliness becomes more important as godliness becomes more unlikely.” O C D E T A I L S . C O M OCDETAILS BLOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 "Logic Change" hmm looks like something an aftermarket tuner can't fix by mapping only.. I wonder how long it will take for a cobb update.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 Regardless, the pre cat doesn't have any affect on emissions. Not true, the pre-cat helps the system heat up more quickly by restricting exhaust flow, this helps reduce the amount of time the car is dumping out "cold-start" emissions that are usually 30-40x the amount released during normal "warmed-up driving. The '06 models of the WRX & Forester XT no longer have a catted up-pipe, they use a second air injection pump to help reduce cold start emissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayout Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Opie - Since the second air injection pump is tightly integrated with the engine, specifically at the exhuast ports, is it a tried-n-true industry-wide technology or a new one that may introduce a slew of other problems ? I keed I keeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 Opie - Since the second air injection pump is tightly integrated with the engine, specifically at the exhuast ports, is it a tried-n-true industry-wide technology or a new one that may introduce a slew of other problems ? It's a tried-n-true method of reducing start-up emissions, it's just more expensive than the cheap pre-cat method. Think of it as a more expensive, but a better result for the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusDubya77 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 I really haven't noticed any type of studdering..Is this a problem with specific date-made LGTs?? :woowoo:check out the Diamond Gray Metallic Monster!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Update!! the dealer called me back today. They need my scooby for 3 days while they send in my ecu. So it's the real deal, SOA has actually come through with a fix...now everyone go flood the dealers. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayout Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 I've informed my dealer of the 1 ECM and 2 TCM reflashes and he will get back to me by Monday cause that's when he anticipates the SoA Tech Line to respond and I'll be getting a loaner. I keed I keeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAHAWK Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 This is good news for us who have ordered 2006 cars. I would assume that they won't have this problem. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted July 16, 2005 Author Share Posted July 16, 2005 I really haven't noticed any type of studdering..Is this a problem with specific date-made LGTs?? More than likely...Yes. I would assume the latest build cars already have the update. Only way to tell is to have the dealer pull the CID# off the ECM and see what "version" it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Not true, the pre-cat helps the system heat up more quickly by restricting exhaust flow, this helps reduce the amount of time the car is dumping out "cold-start" emissions that are usually 30-40x the amount released during normal "warmed-up driving. The '06 models of the WRX & Forester XT no longer have a catted up-pipe, they use a second air injection pump to help reduce cold start emissions. I smell a retrofit project :-) HV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 There is no TSB as of yet, but the Tech Line is aware of the issue and the reflash. Here's a little more info I drummed up on ECM (Electronic Control Module)Reflashes: Also found a few TCM (Transmission Control Module) Reflashes: Ok, I can't get your quotes to quote.. Anyway.. How do we identify our ECM/TCM CIDs? Anyway to do it except at a dealer? I have an LGT 5EAT. Looks like there might be one ECM and two TCM flashes that apply.. Would love to get better shift response, although I doubt it'll do that.. Keeping my fingers crossed that Cobb eventually does a TCM flash. HV HV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayout Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 I think the reflashes are for changing the logic not the data the logic depends on(which is what Cobb does). The reflashes are probably updates to the algorithms inside both the ECM and TCM. Cobb and other tuners are just modifiying the input parameters the ECM algorithms compute. I keed I keeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 I think the reflashes are for changing the logic not the data the logic depends on(which is what Cobb does). The reflashes are probably updates to the algorithms inside both the ECM and TCM. Cobb and other tuners are just modifiying the input parameters the ECM algorithms compute. So how can Cobb do the "Realtime" map? Is it already part of the Subaru system? HV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4 Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Okay guys, just got back from the dealer. I'm sure they'll be on here looking too and hate me for even posting this, sorry in advance. I'm not mentioning the dealer's name, just in case you take this negatively. I brought a printout with all the good information from Opie, and that immediately put them on the defensive. He says "so, you're an internet freak huh? That means your pretty anal, huh?" The guy didn't even read it, but I was showing him which reflash was for the 05 LGT, and he told me there's no reflash for this car. I showed him that it was for "05MY Legacy 2.5L M/T", then he says that he hasn't heard about it and when I told him there isn't a TSB, he basically laughs. I first took him for a drive trying to reproduce the studder with a bit of success, but he doesn't feel a thing. All the while, he's telling me to stay off the internet because it'll just get crazy ideas in my head. Then he says "Here's what we're going to do. We're going to go back, clear your ECU, then I'm going to drive it, and you're going to go home happy." Okay... So, we get back, he clears the ECU, and then when he gets out he notices my tires. He says, "those aren't the stock tires are they?" I just say, "nope." Then he says, there's just one more thing I have to do, and he pops the hood. I think he has to disconnect the battery or something, but no, he just wants to "see if anyone has been messing around under here." "All stock," I tell him. I have no doubt in my mind that if he would have seen as much as a CAI under there, he would have sent me on my way for wasting his time and flagged me in the computer. So, then we go for a drive. I definately felt the surging while he was driving, and he felt it too. So, finally an answer! "Oh, that's just the torque in your powerband kicking in. That's normal for these cars." I ask him what causes it, the turbo, the drivetrain, what? He tells me "it's the torque". Okay.... So guys, here's what I learned... Stay off the internet. It rots your brain and causes you to think crazy stuff about your car.The surging is the torque in your powerband.90% of you can't drive a stickUnless there's a TSB, my dealer isn't going to do jack shit for me. He did take my printouts and is giving them to the Subaru rep. Good. I hope he gets on here and realizes there is a problem, Subaru knows about it, and my dealer is unwilling to help me even when presented with (what I believed to be) solid evidence. At least I'm sure all the guys in the shop got a kick out of yet another kid falling prey to rumors and hacks on the internet. Good for them. If someone finds a Subaru dealer in the Chicagoland area that is actually willing to help customers, and not just make fun of them and tell them they're wrong, please refer me to one. It's sad because my dealer is so close, but I just have lost all faith in their service. If someone finds such a dealership, I'll make sure to take my future business there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCDetails Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 I like how bringing them exactly what they need to look up makes us the freaks. If they knew how to research stuff as well as we did then we wouldn't have to bring this shit in for them. They'd be able to look into their system and figure it out for themselves. I tell ya.... I have loved my last Subarus, but the customer service experiences I have had since owning this one has turned me off from them. Everytime I try to explain an issue I am having they treat me like a 4 year old. I won't be buying any new cars from Subaru ever again after this experience... As soon as I have time I'm going to write up my complaints about their dealerships local to me and send them to SOA. I'm sure they won't care, but they have 30K of my money and I think that bought me the right to let them know what I think about them. _________________________________________ “Cleanliness becomes more important as godliness becomes more unlikely.” O C D E T A I L S . C O M OCDETAILS BLOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 I'm not mentioning the dealer's name, just in case you take this negatively.You should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 My dealer would rather I be deaf dumb and blind and take their word for everything. I know 10x what they do about the car, which is scary. I brought him a copy of a TSB for the floor mat hook after he says there isn't an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4 Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 You should. Well, I'm really too nice for that. BUT...if someone were to simply do a search for threads I started and find out what dealership I bought my car from and where I USED to refer people to, I guess there's nothing I could do, now could I? By the way, this is the same dealer that tried to BS me into getting a 15k mile service from them for $209 that included "checking my throttle linkage". Oh boy, really? You'll check that for me? Thanks, but no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4 Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 I like how bringing them exactly what they need to look up makes us the freaks. If they knew how to research stuff as well as we did then we wouldn't have to bring this shit in for them. They'd be able to look into their system and figure it out for themselves. I tell ya.... I have loved my last Subarus, but the customer service experiences I have had since owning this one has turned me off from them. Everytime I try to explain an issue I am having they treat me like a 4 year old. I won't be buying any new cars from Subaru ever again after this experience... As soon as I have time I'm going to write up my complaints about their dealerships local to me and send them to SOA. I'm sure they won't care, but they have 30K of my money and I think that bought me the right to let them know what I think about them. Yup, I basically made it so they didn't have to do any work, all they had to do is call the techline and get the information to send the ECU to NJ, but they'd rather go out of their way to prove that their customer is a freak, and should have not brought his car to them. I wasn't asking anything hard. The only good thing about this is that I didn't have to leave my car there for several days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 You should. Of course you should mention the dealership name... Not for retaliation but to help other Subie owners closeby you to be aware of such a horrible dealership experience... And also, you should write to SOA about this crappy service and treatment, I am sure they will loose their points or something is going to happen... Good luck, Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 My dealer is a 'Subaru Stellar Performer'. More hype than reality. Marketing owns joo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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