eles1 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I didn't notice the stuttering on mine until the weather turned warmer (bought the car last spring). Even now, on cool evenings, it's less noticeable. Once it began stuttering on a regular basis, I noticed it immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKB_SATX Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I noticed the problem early on, but was getting used to the very light throttle at the same time AND trying to keep within the recommended break-in parameters... I went looking for info online and found the threads about it (it took me a while, I never would have called it stuttering, much less "studdering.") I first asked the dealer about it at my scheduled service at 3000 miles, at which time they did the cliche' ECU reset and sent me on my (surging, hesitating) way. Dropped off my car this morning at North Park in San Antonio and will wait and see how much improvement I get. DKB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiteOwl561 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I don't even have any of those supposed Top Tier retailers here where I live except for maybe Shell. I guess BP, Exxon, Marathon, Sunoco, and Speedway are not good enough. It seems crazy that some of the largest gas retailers have only average gas. I guess I will have to look for a Shell station that is on my route. BTW, how long has this Top Tier been testing gas, and is it a regional thing? I have only seen 1 of these stations in Columbus, Ohio. As I look at it a little closer, I think that some of the names may be parent company i.e. Conoco Sunoco (I think anyway ) Anyone know what stations these companies run under? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 The Car & Driver article that was referred to earlier in the thread mentioned that they started the "Top Tier" certification in 2004: http://www.subaruchallenge.com/Wills/TopTierFuels.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Interesting that I have never had this problem, but mine is a late'05 (June?) build. Probably worthy of another thread, but here is some interesting data on TopTier.com pulled from a BMW forum; What, exactly, is this "Top Tier Gas" web site? It doesn't disclose any affiliations, so some investigation is warranted: nwhois toptiergas.com Registrant: National Products Group (DWZWSDYIHD) P.O. Box 3475 Tulsa, OK 74101 US Domain Name: TOPTIERGAS.COM Administrative Contact: Denny, Jim (18276434I) ynnedj@aol.com P.O. Box 3475 Tulsa, OK 74101 US 9188368551 Hmmm. Not too informative. However, let's Google on the phone number. There are a large number of hits, most of which point to a "Quik Trip Corporation", which operates a large number of gas stations in that area. A Google of the Quik Trip web site reveals that Jim Denny is their Vice President of Marketing. In fact, they have a "Top Tier" gas item on their web page (here). How likely do you think it is that the brands listed on the Top Tier web page are the same ones that Quik Trip carries? And what are the odds that a gasoline retailer is actually conducting the studies needed to actually rate gasoline quality? The Internet is a wonderful thing, but one has to be cautious about any "facts" which are posted without substantiation or references. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayout Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Top Tier Gas is BS. I was a loyal BP customer, heard about Top Tier Gas tried Shell. Got less power as indicated by my buttdyno, probably from the ethanol they use. Went back to BP and I can't be happier. I keed I keeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_rex Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 it's doubtful your butt meter produced anythign valuable there. gas is gas, unless there is a real octane rating difference. even so, it's unlikely you could notice a difference. Even if there was a difference, you're butt dyno could never distinguish the TINY difference (associated with amybe a slightly different timing profile once the ECU learns it) dR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayout Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Ok, I'll try a tank of Shell again and ring it around like I'm used to with the BP, just to make sure. But again, with Shell the engine didn't run as hard as I was used to with BP. I keed I keeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkscrn Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Rob, great investigative work! I tend to agree with you. When I visited the TopTier website I was also a bit skeptical about the affiliation and accredidation of this organization. If the National Highway and Traffic association, or DOT, etc was recognize this organization or some sort of government agency, I would maybe consider them a bit more serious. However an article posted by Car and Driver really isnt all that credible either.... However, I will try some new gas (been using Mobil/Exxon) since bought the car. Im going to use shell or chevron for the next couple weeks and see if this hesitaion/studdering thing is affected at all........at this point im desperate. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetAwayDriver Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I spoke with a service tech at Irvine Subaru today and FWIW, he said that getting the fix is just not worth it right now. He admitted that the ECU reflash does little to solve the problem and that getting an aftermarket fix was the only way to really deal with the situation right now. I'm inclined to wait, however I am pissed off with the problem and find it extremely annoying and definately a problem on a car thats 28K and up. I love this car but this problem is just unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekuhockey18 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 So, if the tech recommended an aftermarket fix for this studdering issue, would it void our warranty if we show up in their shop with an AP map still attached? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 How does bucking reduce emissions?. It doesn't, but tuning for ultra low emissions may result in "driveability" shortcomings, such as stuttering/hesitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetAwayDriver Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 So, if the tech recommended an aftermarket fix for this studdering issue, would it void our warranty if we show up in their shop with an AP map still attached? I kept pressing about that and I didn't get a straight answer. My car is leased which makes it all the more up in the air. I am figuring that you would void your warranty as SOA technically does have fix for it despite that fix being questionable to put it lightly. I am not sure what to do but I am leaning towards eventually doing an aftermarket fix as I don't think Subaru is treating this problem correctly. We have all spent a lot of money on these cars and this lackluster fix is unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkscrn Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 I contacted my dealer this morning, finally got ahold of the Service Manager...he has heard of the ECU's having issues, however just not on cars this new. He did not hesitate to offer to have me bring it in, drive it and call SOA to see if there is something they can do (which there is).....he also mentioned sending out the ECU and putting me in a rental... Hopefully it works out as good as it sounds, Im going in on Thursday afternoon. Stay tuned.. Joe FYI - production date of my LGT 10/04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkalbarc Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 ^^ Please keep us updated. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydude Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 I got my car back today. They called the techline and Subaru told the service manager that my car already has the flash because the build date for my car was after they implemented the flash. I still notice some studderig though but maybe this might be because of the inherent nature of turbo engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eb50 Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 has anyone done this successfully? turn around time? results? its not too bad in my outback, just in 2nd gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motion_157 Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 How do you find the build date of the car? Is it printed somewhere on the body? FYI - production date of my LGT 10/04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayout Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Yes. It either on the inside of the driver door close to the tire pressure sticker or the driver door sill where you step on when you get in the car. I keed I keeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_rex Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 I must say, the more i read this thread, the less interested i am in the reflash. ECUtek here i come... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedeck Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 I must say, the more i read this thread, the less interested i am in the reflash. ECUtek here i come... lol I'm with you there...either that, or Cobb's AP! Either way, I know how to 'avoid' it happening...just sometimes, it gets the best of me. Oh well, life moves on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peale Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 has anyone done this successfully? turn around time? results? its not too bad in my outback, just in 2nd gear Still waiting. Turn-around time seems to be about 9-10 days now. There is backlog at SOA for this fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkscrn Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 an aftermarket ECU could be a fix, however if you do not want to void your warranty, its not a good alternative. take what you can get for free....its alteast worth getting replaced, and if they never get a sure fix with a recall, then go w/ the aftermarket ECU. just an opinion......"OPIE" has made some great points regarding this issue... joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCDetails Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Does anyone else besides me thing that its BS that I have to drive my car a certian way (ie slow and under 4K RPM) to avoid the stutter? The damn stutter shouldn't be there at all. I shouldn't have to take special steps to keep my car from stuttering like an Escort with a blocked fuel filter and a bad tank of gas. Could the problem be something other than the ECU if a reflash doesn't fix it? _________________________________________ “Cleanliness becomes more important as godliness becomes more unlikely.” O C D E T A I L S . C O M OCDETAILS BLOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkalbarc Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 ^^ Yes, I believe this is BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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