eles1

I see now...

Is this a "road tune"? Because I really think I would prefer a dyno tune, and as far as I know, Buscher has the only AWD dyno around... Maybe I'll just have my AP updated and go back to Cobb's stage 1 programming...

Who is Tim from PDX? If I unload my AP, I would probably go with a custom dyno-tune from the guys at Buscher...

Yeah. I'm trying to decide if I should keep my AP or sell it and go with a custom tune. Since my AP won't work with my new ECU (cooling fan issue) unless I return it to Cobb for an update, now may be a good time to switch...

:lol: That's quite a mod list you've got there Allen!! I seem to remember someone saying not too long ago that he was only planning to change UP/DP and maybe dyno tune his new ride...

Holy crap... Where did all these LGT's come from?!? Used to be just a couple of us in this area not too long ago.

Great... They replace it with another one just like it. Nice troubleshooting Subaru...

Not this weekend - too many other things going on... Maybe sometime in the near future. We should get a small group together and head out sometime.

Yeah, I thought about that. It would be very useful to see what a 100% stock LGT pulls on that dyno, but I don't know if I want to spend 75 bucks on it. It would probably be worth it...

^^Thanks for the info Allen!! Too funny

Yeah, sounds like their dyno was pulling about 10-20 whp lower than some others I've seen. That's okay since you did the smart thing - taking a baseline pull. You can still see the gains you made and they were significant. I wonder of the UP/DP was helping out at all without the EM on the baseline?? I would suspect not a lot... By the way, were those raw numbers or SAE corrected? If they were raw, what were the corrected values?? Sorry:redface: , I'm just anxious to see them. I'll watch the "turbo powertrains" forum the next couple of days. I would assume that's where you'll be posting them? That's interesting. My AP stage1 map peaks up around 16+ psi on a regular basis. I run the stock map most of the time. I think I'll keep it that way until I can get a chance to do some significant data logging. Who knows, maybe I'll sell the AP and go with a custom tune. :lol: That's hilarious!! We were just talking about that on LERSOC a couple weeks ago. If he would've said that to me, I would have beat his little punk-ass with my walker!!

I was a little disappointed in this: Until I read this: Very cool Any reason they didn't shoot for 16-16.5 psi? I think that's what Cobb AP maps target for both stage1 and stage2 boost. Was the 15 psi your request or was that all the further they wanted to push it? Is 16 psi too high in their opinion?? Any dyno-graphs??

Cool. If you would, post the numbers here or on LERSOC (or both) once you get them. I'd be interested to see what a custom tune could do with those mods vs. AP stage 2. I still have mixed feelings about my AP...

Nice car Did they ever fill up the other time slots they had set aside for LERSOC members? There were still a bunch open last time I checked... I was thinking about having some pulls done (no tuning) just to see what my AP stage 1 is doing for me but I think I'll probably have to go out of town this weekend (seems to be happening a lot, lately). I think you'll enjoy the new EM Are you adding UP and/or DP as well??

I bought mine from Gary @ Halpert. Nice, small dealership. What made you decide to make the trip all the way out to Painesville from North Royalton to buy at Halpert?? Availability??

I don't think so... I wasn't in that area and I almost never use the phone while driving. Must be another RBP in town!! I saw a de-badged one just like mine a few days ago on I-90 headed east to Mentor. If the one you saw didn't have badges, that may have been him...

Try "moderate" acceleration, not light, not heavy. I can best duplicate it by shifting into the next higher gear (most noticeable in 2, 3, and 4 for me) and then depressing the accelerator at a fairly rapid pace after you get the engine to 2000 - 2500 rpm. That does it for me almost everytime. I also notice it more when the weather is hot and humid and I have the AC on.

Maybe we should start a new thread where people could post specific results from the fix??

+1. I would also like to point out that when A/F ratios are at their richest (WOT), the stuttering is typically not present. This is true on stock tuning or aftermarket tuning. If A/F ratio too rich was the problem, the stuttering should be at its worst during WOT runs when A/F ratios are at their lowest values. That's completely opposite from what actually happens. Couldnt' resist... , Now I'm done for real!!

I'd prefer to not bicker further in this thread... it contains a lot of good information that shouldn't be diluted with our little "side topic". dark_rex, I would be happy to continue our discussion via PM or a separate thread, if you like. I meant to suggest this earlier, but human nature won out and got the better of me... Thanks.

Wow. You're very persistent, even though your maturity level is rapidly declining. Aluminum will burn in an oxygen rich atmosphere at temps much lower than its normal ignition point, and temps WAAYYY above 1600°F are very common within the combustion chamber itself. As I said, I've seen it first-hand in both nitrous and FI engines. Perhaps I was dreaming... As far as A/F ratios go, I've datalogged my Subaru when stock and most of the time the A/F ratio stayed right between 11:1 and 12:1, very close to what it runs @ stage 1. I guess I'm dreaming that as well . Have you ever actually datalogged your car to see what it's doing?? Cobb's stage 1 A/F ratios are between 10.8:1 and 11.2:1, which are comparable to what I've been seeing when I datalog http://cobbtuning.com/legacy/images/ap-lgt-stage1.gif Amazing how they can get the extra power without leaning the A/F ratios. In any event, it's not near the 14.1:1 that you suggested earlier. That ratio is getting close to dangerous for an NA car. Regarding the stock dyno graph you've posted, I don't see the A/F ratio dropping below 10:1 at any point. Am I missing something? There's certainly nothing as low as 9.5:1 on that graph!! It's only down at 10:1 for a couple hundred rpm, at most. The horizontal dotted line it's hovering near for most of the range is 10.5:1, as I read it... One last thing. I have Cobb Stage 1/91 (v1.10 maps) tuning in my car right now, and I can tell you that it most certainly does not completely address the stuttering issue. Trey himself has posted that the stutter is a complex issue that is more closely related to open/closed loop transitions than anything else. Now tell me I'm imagining that as well.

Not to get in an argument, but you're wrong. Aluminum most certainly will undergo rapid oxidation (combustion) at high temperatures in an oxygen-rich atmosphere. Steel will also burn under those conditions - but it takes slightly higher temps. Probably not the only failure mode of a poorly tuned FI engine, but a very possible one. I've seen it first-hand... In most cases, the A/F ratios after tuning are very nearly the same as before tuning. The idea that aftermarket tuners are increasing this, or any other, engine's output by leaning out the A/F ratio is simply false (this was your original contention). The increase in power comes from increased boost and the increased fuel delivery to support it. Period. They may tweak or slightly adjust the A/F, but the power to be gained there is minimal. 14:1 is WAY too lean for an FI engine at WOT. Cobb's tuning is more in the 11:1 range - probably not too far off of Subaru's stock A/F values, maybe even a bit richer. If you don't believe me, check Cobb's website and see for yourself.

Dammit!! I went out of town this weekend and just got back an hour ago!! You guys were only a few miles from where I live... Let me know when you're setting something else up and I'll drop by. I tried to join LERSOC, but I couldn't get my registration to work for some reason.

I know of at least one Regal Blue Pearl GT sedan that can be seen around the east side suburbs on occasion A guy that I work with bought a black GT sedan a few months after I bought mine. I think he lives in Mentor. I also see another black GT sedan every so often while I'm driving to work. I see him pulling into Progressive on Rt. 91 in the mornings.

^^^^ Great news!!! Thanks for the update!