ehsnils Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Both framed and unframed have their merits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubiousmike Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I'll chime in on the CVT. I have a 2010 2.5i LTD. I miss the feel of a MT. I feel like I actually drive easier on the car with a stick. The CVT shifts far faster than you can with a MT. I don't know if the 6MT 2.5i and the paddle shifters on the CVT share the same gear ratios (fake on the CVT, I know), but if they are, I'm pretty sure I will beat a 6MT 2.5i. Also, at 3500 miles with Mobil1 synthetic oil, I am getting 31 MPG on the highway. Now all I need to do is find a way to reprogram the gear ratios and fix the 2mph difference between the speedometer and real life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatherWarrior Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Both framed and unframed have their merits. I would love to see a pro/con on this. I know I have more cons than pros. The pros...well...about all I've every heard is..."they look cool". THAT NOT A REASON! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted February 2, 2011 I Donated Share Posted February 2, 2011 I'll chime in on the CVT. I have a 2010 2.5i LTD. I miss the feel of a MT. I feel like I actually drive easier on the car with a stick. The CVT shifts far faster than you can with a MT. I don't know if the 6MT 2.5i and the paddle shifters on the CVT share the same gear ratios (fake on the CVT, I know), but if they are, I'm pretty sure I will beat a 6MT 2.5i. Also, at 3500 miles with Mobil1 synthetic oil, I am getting 31 MPG on the highway. Now all I need to do is find a way to reprogram the gear ratios and fix the 2mph difference between the speedometer and real life... The CVT gear ratios are fake. You'll see better performance and fuel economy if you don't use them. They're mostly there because people have more of a sense of acceleration/speed if there are pre-defined ratios. But the whole point of a CVT is it's continuously variable -- it can set a million different ratios in order to keep the car in the power and/or efficiency band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatherWarrior Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Hey....at least we have another thing to push for in the Legacy...the new 2.5 FB motor. THANK GOD....get rid of the horrible 2.5 EJ. Now if we can just get rid of the stupid CVT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted February 3, 2011 I Donated Share Posted February 3, 2011 Hey....at least we have another thing to push for in the Legacy...the new 2.5 FB motor. THANK GOD....get rid of the horrible 2.5 EJ. Now if we can just get rid of the stupid CVT. How do we know the FB is going to be any better than the EJ? Only advantages so far are timing chain, NVH (don't care about that one), and fuel economy (don't care THAT much about that one either). Reliability advantages remain to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegGTLT Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 What's so horrible about the EJ? Please PM joeleodee For All Site Questions. He is the acting Admin and can resolve anything related to LegacyGT.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Not to change the subject but does anyone have a link to pictures of the 2012 legacy GT ? 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegGTLT Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 That is what the purpose of this thread is so you're actually changing it to the correct subject. I checked cars101.com and he usually has decent info. Nothing yet on there. Please PM joeleodee For All Site Questions. He is the acting Admin and can resolve anything related to LegacyGT.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Funny, I see I'm not the anyone that thought it sort of, kind of, get off the subject. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatherWarrior Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Not to change the subject but does anyone have a link to pictures of the 2012 legacy GT ? I don't think there are any official photos yet, or even spy shots if they are changing anything. What's so horrible about the EJ? How do we know the FB is going to be any better than the EJ? Only advantages so far are timing chain, NVH (don't care about that one), and fuel economy (don't care THAT much about that one either). Reliability advantages remain to be seen.The timing chain is the big story for reliability. Chain driven are SO much better. Don't have to tear 1/4 of the engine apart just to fix a problem that should occur in the first place. It also provides better precision overall. The FB will be lower polluting engine too. Add to that the ongoing issues of head gaskets, poor mpg (even with AWD), lose of power over time...the EJ isn't exactly a great motor. Hell even the GM 2.5 I4 used in the 80s were a better monster than the EJ (well...except when they had that stupid upper engine mount arm). True the FB may no have the history yet, but 2.0 version is hitting other markets now. Looking at the engineering behind it, I'd put money down on it being a much better base motor. Fingers crossed FB will dominate by 2012 in the Legacy and Impreza WRX line (of which with would likely be my choice anyway....NOT a butt ugly Legacy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted February 7, 2011 I Donated Share Posted February 7, 2011 The timing chain is the big story for reliability. Chain driven are SO much better. Don't have to tear 1/4 of the engine apart just to fix a problem that should occur in the first place. It also provides better precision overall. Chains are nice, yes, but there is a reason the timing belts have a 105k service interval -- they are reliable to that point. Let's be realistic, most of these cars are going to have one, maybe two timing belt changes in their lifetime. Not as big a deal as you imply. My Infiniti has a chain, but the engine currently in there hasn't even gotten to 105k yet, so it's not like it matters... The FB will be lower polluting engine too. Add to that the ongoing issues of head gaskets, poor mpg (even with AWD), lose of power over time... The 07+ EJ253 receives PZEV certification in all the California emissions states. You can't get much cleaner than that. Headgaskets are only an issue on EJ251 and earlier motors from what I can tell. And I've never heard of a properly maintained engine, EJ or otherwise, losing power over time. If yours is doing that, you need to give it a tuneup. Poor MPG is somewhat of a concern, but I have gotten over 30mpg in my dad's Outback. I have also gotten 12mpg in my LGT -- and then on another tank, 26mpg. It's all in how you drive. True the FB may no have the history yet, but 2.0 version is hitting other markets now. Looking at the engineering behind it, I'd put money down on it being a much better base motor. Fingers crossed FB will dominate by 2012 in the Legacy and Impreza WRX line (of which with would likely be my choice anyway....NOT a butt ugly Legacy). I doubt they will have a turbo FB for another couple of years. But hey, my predictions have been wrong before. Either way, we have absolutely no clue on reliability until it's been around for a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 ^ you must be young. Us old guy's were appauled when engines began to come with timing belts. I remember one of the reasons for the belts was, they make less noise then a chain. It's about time they figured out that a chain will last longer. We don't care about a little noise. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ in PA Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I put 220,000 miles on my '97 Saturn SL2, never replaced the timing chain. Really, I didn't have to do much to that car - probably one of the best products GM ever built. (Of course, that was when Saturn was practically a separate company and Spring Hill, TN was building cars under a superior management and labor arrangement.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueWhiteBoy Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 ^ Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six rotors Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 ^ you must be young. Us old guy's were appauled when engines began to come with timing belts. I remember one of the reasons for the belts was, they make less noise then a chain. It's about time they figured out that a chain will last longer. We don't care about a little noise. I don't know for sure,but I suspect the real reason for timing belts was that they were more reliable than chains in the early 70s when there was a big move to OHC engines.Ask anyone who had a Triumph Stag/TR7,Mercedes Benz SL 300 etc if chains lasted longer! Today you can get very reliable long chains which as you say could last the lifetime of the car. On the otherhand changing the timing belt on the 2.5 SOHC Subaru is so easy,no more than an hour.If you want a real challenge try it on a 2.3 Mazda Miller Cycle engine!(yes I have done both) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmichael Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I heard that they are going to offer a turbo on the 3.6 with a HD trany and suspension. 325 ponies with a 6 speed manual or new 6 speed auto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatherWarrior Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Chains last WAY LONGER. Belts are reliable at failing! (LOL) Talking about Triumphs...never replaced one in that...and it's a 1965 (nor did the 1963 need replacing) and they are simple bicycle looking chains, not the modern multi-linked fat style chains. The Saturn motors (certain years, mostly early, before the Ions came around) were super bullet proof with the chains. The loose of MPGs is apparent is MANY if not ALL versions of the NA 2.5L (I haven't researched the turbo motors, so can't say their, possibly same story). It has NOTHING to do with the way I drive. A tune-up only netted a one to two mpg return. No where near the 30mpgs some vouch. I've noticed many with the 30mpg claim also miss-calc. Although I don't think so in your case (I think we talked about it at one of the meet-ups). Some do get 30mpg which is why I have hopes. Otherwise...I'd be out of the Subaru game by now. The newer EJs don't YET have the failure rate because they just are not as old...yet. I'm sure in time you'll see an increase. No, it won't be as bad as the earlier models (like the gen2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted February 20, 2011 I Donated Share Posted February 20, 2011 The EJ251 in my brother's Forester drinks oil at the rate of a quart every 500-1000 mi, but it's still possible to get over 400 mi to a tank if you're on a long highway jaunt. What stuff did you replace in the tuneup? Also, I haven't seen any belts break on properly maintained Subarus (i.e. ones where the owners stick to the maintenance schedule of 105k mi belt changes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegGTLT Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 Any actual 2012 info? Please PM joeleodee For All Site Questions. He is the acting Admin and can resolve anything related to LegacyGT.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Envy Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Subaru took away everything that would appeal to the type of buyer the GT was aimed at, and turned the Legacy into Camry/Accord with AWD. How much of a market is there really for a performance version of a Camry type car? It's a shame, as I miss the poor man's A4/3 Series that was the previous gen Legacy. I hope they go a little more upscale again with the next Legacy redesign. the decision to not inclucde a turbo model for 2012 may be to the decrease sale's of the 2011 STI. They probably want more people buying an STI, and for a cheaper turbo subaru, the WRX. and save the Legacy platform for the mid sized family sedan market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 A well connected (but often full of bunk) buddy predicts the following for MY 2012: Limited, small-market runs of the OBXT and Legacy wagon. No Outback sedan or GT Wagon planned. New interior package as option for entire line (no specifics). Improved brake package will be part of the 3.6L package for Outbacks. I guess the additional weight has proven to be a problem for the wagons? I'm sure if that's true, it's detailed all over the place in these boards. I'll admit to not having looked into it, not having a personal interest in the matter. No major changes until late 2012 for MY 2013, dependent on sales performance and projections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I heard that they are going to offer a turbo on the 3.6 with a HD trany and suspension. 325 ponies with a 6 speed manual or new 6 speed auto. I hope to hear more of that . I might be interested in one of those. I’d like to start the rumor that the 3.6 will not just be turbocharged, but dual-charged (al la Audi) giving insane performance and gas mileage. Then they will price and market it poorly, and suffer dismal sales before declaring it a failure and scaring North American auto makers away from that technology for years. But those that get made will be legendary. And people will do mind blowing things with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seiyafan Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I wonder how much would they price the 325 HP legacy with 6 speed auto. If it's above 38k then no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegGTLT Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 Probably less than a spec.B was going for in 2006. Nothing is more precious than that. Please PM joeleodee For All Site Questions. He is the acting Admin and can resolve anything related to LegacyGT.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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