AVO Project Outback part 1

[apexjapan]

Which Bilsteins are these?

No spacers are removed - any camber curve issues?

Last - different subject - how about a dogbone?

 

They are the OEM Bilstein setup from a JDM wagon. I received them from our company in Japan. They are a little bit more firm at low speeds than I would prefer (they are set up for the rather smooth Japanese pavement) but improve the stance a bit, and are definitely firmer than the stock setup.

 

No camber curve issues at this time. I hadn't considered a dogbone replacement, to be honest, until after the turbocharger installation.

 

Suspension has settled a bit more, some pictures from a trip out of town:

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/avo_outback/wheels_04.jpg

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/avo_outback/wheels_05.jpg

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

[apexjapan]

More details on this, please!!!

 

I'll have pictures up by tomorrow, I think.

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

[apexjapan]

The first page of this thread has been updated with specific links to each install, plus the part numbers for each part that was installed.

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

[nemo]

wow. great job! this thread needs to be stickied.

[GEE-OTTO]

Paul

 

 

When can we expect to find the LCA's for our cars and the FSB's I looked on your site to price pretty much the exact parts your have installed but I can find them all I want complete rear and front stabilization (RSB, FSB, mounts, brackets, LCA's) ???

[apexjapan]

I've got the bushings for LCA (front/rear) in stock, a couple of rear brackets, stabilizer bar bushings. I'll be updating the website today with the new parts.

Front and Rear swaybars for the 2.5i I don't have in stock, we are working on the shipment of those now. I only have the front 23mm swaybars in for the GT/XT models at this time.

 

Sales this summer have been outstanding, far exceeding the demand we forecast for (and thus our supply). I do apologize for that, but we are trying to get parts made asap!

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

[toreadorranger]

Alignment is most definitely planned for. I had just been waiting to finish up everything that I was going to do to the suspension that would impact the alignment. I've got the steering rack bushings to put up as well - just haven't written that up yet. That is really the last of the suspension changes. Well.. for now.

 

Does Avo make steering rack bushings? or are you using someone elses?

 

Edit: Nevermind found them on your site.

[apexjapan]

Sneak peak of the 2.5" Stainless Steel mid-pipes:

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/midpipe/25_mid_001.jpg

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/midpipe/25_mid_002.jpg

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/midpipe/25_mid_003.jpg

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/midpipe/25_mid_004.jpg

 

No price as of yet - we'll be planning to release these with the complete cat-back system. Features high-quality stainless steel construction including the flanges, more slotting on the flanges to help get your fitment just right, and a resonator to keep drone down.

 

I'll be showing it off at the West Coast Subaru Show on the 20th, so won't be able to do a drive report/video of it until after the show.

 

The front LCA bushings have been added to our shop as well.

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

[GEE-OTTO]

If these come in under $1K I will be happy and surprised and HAPPY My guess is the CBE will come in around $1099.00

[Leke]

Paul (or anyone else),

 

the mid pipe should work across all legacy models, like the 3.0r too, right? I always thought the significant differences in the exhaust systems in the 05-09 Legacy models took place before the mid pipe. Is this correct?

[apexjapan]

Paul (or anyone else),

 

the mid pipe should work across all legacy models, like the 3.0r too, right? I always thought the significant differences in the exhaust systems in the 05-09 Legacy models took place before the mid pipe. Is this correct?

 

That is correct, only the catted sections (N/A or Turbo) are different, so anything aft will fit. We are making the 2.5" system for the N/A owners, or for future N/A 2.5i owners that fit the AVO turbokit.

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

[apexjapan]

Steering Rack Bushings, thy time has come. I can't say I was particularly looking forward to this - these are both simple yet a bit of a pain to do. With a bit of luck, you may be able to do these in under an hour, but don't count on it. One big piece of advice: Unlike most of my other installs, don't do these on ramps! Put the car up on jackstands, you need the wheels to be able to move to wiggle the various pieces out/in.

 

The parts: AVO's new steering rack bushing for the Legacy/Outback, and AVO steering rack bush removal tool. This bushing is a new part number, as we updated it for fitment: S1105M1GVUSAT

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/steer_bush/steer_001.jpg

 

The tools: 14mm socket and wrench for removing everything. You will also need a 17mm socket for the removal tool. Some flat head screwdrivers for prying things loose, a breaker bar, a crowbar, and some advil won't hurt either.

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/steer_bush/steer_002.jpg

 

I started by removing the bracket on the right side of the car. Just two 14mm bolts on each side - though they were in tight enough that a breaker bar helped a lot. You won't be able to get the bushing itself off until you remove the bolts on the other side of the rack.

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/steer_bush/steer_003.jpg

 

It was a bit tight under there, so I wasn't able to take a picture of the brace that goes above the mounting brackets on the left side (drivers side). So you need to first remove that brace (two 14mm bolts at the back, and two 14mm nuts/bolts at the front). Then there is four 14mm bolts to remove to take this bracket off. You'll get two long and two short bolts, the long ones going in to where the bushings are.

 

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/steer_bush/steer_004.jpg

 

While this design is a pain in the rear, it does ensure that you get the steering rack back to where it should go. Once the bolts are out on both sides of the rack, you can pull it down, giving you room to remove the big bushing on the right side. It's likely been put on with some sort of double-sided tape, so you may need to use a flat head screwdriver to pry it loose and peel it off.

 

Removal of the standard bushings on the left side can either be easy or painful, depending on if you have the car on a lift or jackstands, or you put it on ramps. If it's on a lift or jackstands, it's fairly easy to move the steering rack to one side so that you can get the nut at the top of the AVO tool at the top of the bushing - then it's just a matter of threading the long bolt into it, and ratcheting it in till the bushing pops out.

 

I'm not going to talk about what it's like getting the nut up there if you are on ramps. Just don't go there.

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/steer_bush/steer_005.jpg

 

Once out, you are left with two big holes to fill. Um, you know what I mean.

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/steer_bush/steer_006.jpg

 

Take the smaller bushings and remove one of the polyurethane ends off the metal sleeve. Use some soap on the bushing and squeeze it up on top of the mounting, and get it slid in. Then lube up the metal sleeve with the bottom polyurethane bushing (doesn't matter which one, they are both the same), and slide it into the bottom of the mounting. Do this for both sides. Then lube up the big bushing for the right side, and slide it on as well.

 

This isn't a picture off my car, but it's a much cleaner rack that shows how they should look at this point.

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/steer_bush/steer_007.jpg

 

Well, this part is fun as well. Get the rack lined up and get all those brackets and bolts in. It does help to have a long, big screwdriver to slide through on one side of the mounts to pull the rack into place. Then you should be able to get one of the long bolts in, and then the other side. The right side bracket is much easier to fit.

 

With the bushings and bracket back on. Pay attention to the orientation of the bracket, it's hard to remember after everything.

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/steer_bush/steer_008.jpg

 

And the right side bracket and bushing on.

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/steer_bush/steer_009.jpg

 

As I mentioned earlier, because of the general design of the rack, installing these bushings doesn't put things too out of whack - the basic alignment of my car is about the same as before, but I'll still be getting an alignment after all the rest of the changes as well.

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

[legacy360]

Would the mid-pipe fit a 2010 2.5i legacy?

[apexjapan]

No, the 2010's got a new mid-pipe design.

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

[blaze741]

so just wondering. I am running a fully stock 2009 Legacy 2.5i SE Sedan. I just picked up a new JDM 20mm rsb from a forum member. However, my intent on this sway bar is just to tighten up my rear and improve handling and such. The car is my daily driver and in no way will I be pushing its limits. How essential are the rear sway bar reinforcement brackets? Will I run into a lot of problems with this bar on a fully stock system with my current mounts?

[apexjapan]

Even OEM bars, those tiny little ones, can bend the stock mounts. I think there was some cases of people breaking a stock mount with their stock bar!

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

[blaze741]

hmmm debating on those mounts still. they cost as much as the bar! I guess I will have to keep my eye on em.

[TSiWRX]

^ Don't debate, just do it.

 

Why?

 

Even OEM bars, those tiny little ones, can bend the stock mounts. I think there was some cases of people breaking a stock mount with their stock bar!

 

^ Because that's the ugly truth. This man isn't trying to sell you a part you don't need - what he said there, that's the truth, and not only can you easily search up many, many past posts and threads on this Forum about it, I can even use my own tale of woe as an example.

 

I've had my BL 2.5GT sedan, 5MT, since 2005. The suspension was stock with the exception of a set of iON progressive springs. Why did I do that? Because I honestly don't drive the car all that hard (and I don't participate in motorsports with this vehicle) - I simply went with a set of lowering springs for the looks, and that's the honest truth that anyone who's known me on this Forum for the last 5 years will testify to.

 

So, given that I don't drive the car all that hard, and given that I was on an otherwise stock suspension setup, how the heck did I bend my driver's side bracket? You tell me.

 

I'm a basic backyard greasemonkey wrench, just a hobbyist.

 

The intact side took me all of 5 minutes to install the AVO bracket (not counting jack-up time).

 

The damaged side? I spent about 2 hours on the thing. Luckily for me, the bracket hadn't completely snapped off - that would've required welding it back in place. But while I thought that things would be simple, as the AVO bracket should essentially force things back into alignment, I forgot the rule that once things like that bend/break, it never quite goes back into the proper position. OK, I'm a biologist, not an engineer.

 

Yeah, you could say that it took me damned near 5 years to have broken the thing, but honestly, given how easy I've been with the car, that's not saying much.

 

For as little as it costs and for as easy as it is to put in, particularly if you're going to be in that area, already, my sincere recommendation is: Just Do It.

[BoozeRS05]

I have the AVO rear sway brackets and I agree that they are well worth the cost.

 

That said, I didn't install mine till after struts and springs, and the same JDM RSB. Mine were not bent or warped after 2+ years, and I drive my car very hard thru corners. Just sayin.

[TSiWRX]

^ I think there's a lot of different variables at-play.

 

I wonder, almost, if the harshness of weather can factor in to the earlier demise that constitutes various members' situations.

 

Indeed, dunno.

[apexjapan]

Complete apart from the bend/breakage issue, you have to factor in the other reason for the mount reinforcements. That is the fact that, since the swaybars of any caliber are able to flex the oem mounting that easy, you are losing a good percentage of the effectiveness of the bar. The swaybar is reducing roll by how it resists "twisting" while in the corner. When the oem mounts move that much, though, it increases the amount that the bar can twist.

 

So given that a lot of bar upgrades reduce roll significantly with only a 5-10% upgrade to twist resistance, you can imagine how losing quite a few percentage points can affect the ability of any upgraded bar you put back there, or even the OEM 20mm JDM.

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

[burnout8488]

All of this is making me consider getting the reinforcements even with a completely stock suspension. I don't really want to go lower because I love offroading, but I also love carving corners on tarmac. By the sounds of it, I'll probably notice a difference in the effectiveness of my stock (tiny) swaybar by getting the reinforcement mounts, correct?

[OhBe1]

Add poly bushings front and rear, and I think the answer would be Yes. Add a decent alignment (max out front negative camber and 0.05deg toe-in all around) and decent tires and you might be happy enough.

[burnout8488]

Done and done. God I love this thread.

 

Purchasing the 21mm FSB bushings, and RSB stiff mounts this week for my stock bar (for the time being). This Outback is inspiring.

[apexjapan]

Went to the West Coast Subaru Show this past weekend. Got to do a long road test (as in, follow a bunch of turbo cars with my n/a Outback carrying about 600lbs of gear), and other than some downshifting while going up the pass and a variety of hand gestures aimed at the turbo cars, it went quite well!

 

I even got to test out this:

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/dbw_cont/dbwcont_004.jpg

 

Which is possibly just a bit new. It arrived in the mail on Friday afternoon, about 30 minutes before I took off! Luckily it takes all of about 10 minutes to install (provided you follow the instructions), especially if you just use the OBD-II port for power. And it worked quite well, to be honest. While it's not going to magically wring 50whp out of the car, it did improve throttle response immensely in the Power mode (Po6 was the best compromise). What I especially liked is how it actually made the feel of the throttle more linear, as it made it much easier to modulate the throttle in corners or while cruising at low rpms. The tip-in setting that Subaru sets up from the factory was always way to abrupt. It made it feel "sporty" off the line, but very hard to drive smoothly, especially in traffic. I give the AVO DBW controller a 10/10, it's made driving the car much more fun.*

 

And here's some photos of the car at the event itself:

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/wcss/wcss_068.jpg

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/wcss/wcss_002.jpg

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/wcss/wcss_005.jpg

 

My Ritz-Carlton accommodations for the event:

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/wcss/wcss_001.jpg

 

At the booth:

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/wcss/wcss_052.jpg

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/wcss/wcss_053.jpg

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/wcss/wcss_055.jpg

 

I had a good drive back, even if it took a slight bit longer than I planned. I tried to cut across to I90 from the event, and ended up heading East instead of West and getting, um, slightly lost. But I got a good photo out of it!

 

http://www.avoturboworld.com/images/stories/2010/08/wcss/wcss_069.jpg

 

There's a lot more photos of the event on the website here:

http://www.avoturboworld.com/content/view/253/1/

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com