my Subaru will beat with a Buick heart!

[DaltonUltra]

I'm on MS1 in my car as a full stand alone. There is nothing left of my stock harness or ECU left.

 

It's interesting to me that you've gone that far. Are Subaru ECUs really that hard to tune? I'm used to the GM PCM, which is easy to program with the HPTuners software. In fact, it's generally agreed that the stock PCM on the Series2 cars is better than a stand-alone. Even the 3800 record-holders are using reflashed PCMs with stock ignitions, aside from a timing commander and better wires/plugs.

 

BTW, one more little point. I see the engine Frank-Ster used being called a 3800 a lot. It's actually not. It's a GM 3.8, but not a 3800. The 3800 name didn't start until 1988 with the LN3. What Frank-Ster is using is an LD5, the generation of motor prior the the 3800. The differences are huge, including the addition of a balance shaft, a new crank-trigger ignition, different bore-spacing, different bell housing bolt pattern, etc...

[frank_ster]

same bell housing !

 

i think mine is a LG3

 

mine has the factory hydraulic roller cam

 

yes a 3800 series 2 also has 1" shorter rods " boo"

 

my rods fit side by side with big block chev rods with the exception of the pin dia is smaller and mine are a lot beefier.

[broknindarkagain]

It's interesting to me that you've gone that far. Are Subaru ECUs really that hard to tune? I'm used to the GM PCM, which is easy to program with the HPTuners software. In fact, it's generally agreed that the stock PCM on the Series2 cars is better than a stand-alone. Even the 3800 record-holders are using reflashed PCMs with stock ignitions, aside from a timing commander and better wires/plugs.

 

BTW, one more little point. I see the engine Frank-Ster used being called a 3800 a lot. It's actually not. It's a GM 3.8, but not a 3800. The 3800 name didn't start until 1988 with the LN3. What Frank-Ster is using is an LD5, the generation of motor prior the the 3800. The differences are huge, including the addition of a balance shaft, a new crank-trigger ignition, different bore-spacing, different bell housing bolt pattern, etc...

 

Well, I have a BD (second gen sedan) Legacy. The ECUs are nit very easy to work with, its better to just run stand alone. My stock ecu is pretty much locked and there is nothing I can do about it

 

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[broknindarkagain]

you can import the maps not a problem .

but i have wide band and i just use the auto tune feature. i can get a fairly good tune from scratch in about 45 min.

 

tune on a dyno would be nice but i either use a big hill or the drag strip for final tunes.

 

Ive tried the autotune before and it didnt work out so great lol. Did you get a base tune and just modify it?

 

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[frank_ster]

auto tune works great ! just need to know how much authority and how fast you want it to react and away you go

 

base tunes do workd but can be completely wack if injector dead times and required fuel are different , they will displace and scale the map.

 

 

the hardest thing is cold start stuff.. its hard to do because you have to let the car cool off and try again, the worst if there is a funky ignition setting or bad plugs that will send you completely down the wrong path.

 

after start enrichment i like to give about 10% and taper for about 10 seconds. or 500 tach events

 

i leave that setting across the board for coolant temps

 

then warmup enrichment i let the wideband heat up and then do a data log of the car warming up try to keep about 12-1 afr

 

but afr readings can be all over the place depending on how far the sensor is from the exhaust ports especially at idle.

 

ignition timming will also effect afr display at idle and cold coolant temps,

basically all ignition timming does is move where the heat goes to much advance and the chambers get to hot and causes detonation, retarded timming will throw all the heat in the exhaust and you loose the efficiency.

[DaltonUltra]

same bell housing !

 

i think mine is a LG3

 

mine has the factory hydraulic roller cam

 

yes a 3800 series 2 also has 1" shorter rods " boo"

 

my rods fit side by side with big block chev rods with the exception of the pin dia is smaller and mine are a lot beefier.

 

Actually, the LG3 was the N/A before the first gen of 3800. If yours is a factory turbo engine, it has to be the LD5 or LC6(Cali emissions version of the turbo motor)

 

 

The nice part about those shorter rods on the Series 2 is that we use LSx hydraulic lifters. Makes that part a lot cheaper. Either way, both valve-trains are tough as nails. I've never seen a top-end failure on a GM 3.8 or 3800 that didn't have massive damage somewhere else. The big weakness on the Series 2 is the intake gaskets, which get eaten away by DexCool when it goes acidic. After that, Dex gets in the oil and turns into hideous brown milkshake crap. Aside from that, the only problem for modders is the soft pistons. Full hot-forged crank and rods, and they use soft aluminum pistons. Oi...

[frank_ster]

mine is factory n/a and has weisco after market pistons.

 

what does shorter deck height have to do with lifters ?

 

mine has the same lifters as small block chevy

Edited June 8, 2011 by frank_ster

[1454]

Frank, How much larger is the LS series motors than the 3.8? Also, how would one go about changing his 5mt AWD to a P/T RWD car? This is really a great project. If my 2.5 goes I might hit you up for some plans. (and I have an odd ticking in the bank 1 cylinder 1 area. So it might be sooner rather than later.)

[1454]

Why not do it? Some could say, "well why do you buy a bigger turbo, uppipe, downpipe, exhaust, ETC." Some people like bone stock cars, some people like projects, just to have projects. Personally, I THINK IT IS AWESOME. A) it's an extremely reliable engine, B) it's cheap, and replacement, performance and other parts are cheap. C) no one else has it.

[mwiener2]

looks like the turbo(s) would be jamed against the front tire(s)

 

Longitudinal mount

[frank_ster]

Frank, How much larger is the LS series motors than the 3.8? Also, how would one go about changing his 5mt AWD to a P/T RWD car? This is really a great project. If my 2.5 goes I might hit you up for some plans. (and I have an odd ticking in the bank 1 cylinder 1 area. So it might be sooner rather than later.)

 

very hard to make the 5mt into a rwd/ 4wd ..

 

maybe the 6 speed dccd would be possible but i would have to take one apart.

 

ls series ? you mean like the new small blocks from chevy ? there the same size width and height wise, but about 5 inches longer do to the 2 extra cylinders. meaning the front pulley would be up against your front bumper if you want to keep the factory awd

Edited June 10, 2011 by frank_ster

[NSFW]

If you want LS1 + 4WD/AWD in your LGT, you should start with a Tailblazer SS drivetrain. The only catch is that Subaru hangs the motor out in front of the front axles (because the front diff is in the trans) whereas the TBSS puts the axles much further forward, relative to the motor. So you'd have to move the firewall back a couple feet to make the wheels line up with the wells. And put the dashboard back between the B-pillars. But other than that it should be a straightforward swap.

 

[frank_ster]

If you want LS1 + 4WD/AWD in your LGT, you should start with a Tailblazer SS drivetrain. The only catch is that Subaru hangs the motor out in front of the front axles (because the front diff is in the trans) whereas the TBSS puts the axles much further forward, relative to the motor. So you'd have to move the firewall back a couple feet to make the wheels line up with the wells. And put the dashboard back between the B-pillars. But other than that it should be a straightforward swap.

 

 

other than that ? !!! move the fire wall ? and where is the differential gonna sit ?

[vr4Legacy]

 

Methinks he was being a weee bit sarcastic.

 

Damn the interwebz!! Sometimes that stuff just doesn't come through

[DaltonUltra]

very hard to make the 5mt into a rwd/ 4wd ..

 

maybe the 6 speed dccd would be possible but i would have to take one apart.

 

ls series ? you mean like the new small blocks from chevy ? there the same size width and height wise, but about 5 inches longer do to the 2 extra cylinders. meaning the front pulley would be up against your front bumper if you want to keep the factory awd

 

Well, there is one trick you could use to knock several inches off the total length: The accessories for the LS4 in the W-body will fit on the LS1, LS2, and LS6, and probably onto most of the rest of the LSx series. The LS4 accessories had to be shortened toward the block to get the V8 into an engine bay that was a little tight for the L67. A couple of nutters used this to jam an LS6 into the front of a 97-03 Grand Prix a few years ago.

[frank_ster]

yea but the 3.8 in there is pretty much as tight as it gets ..

 

only other posibility would be a northstar v8 there pretty crazy compact.

[BAC5.2]

I've sat down, and to get an LSX into a Subaru and keep AWD, would require you to cut a big LS shaped hole in the front bumper, and have the front of the engine sit just in front of the A/C condenser.

 

Since LS V8's don't make good crumple zones, your options for a V8 Subaru is RWD or bust. I've seriously looked into this.

[frank_ster]

also but why a v8 ? buick 3.8 turbo can make more power than you would ever need or want.

[dingbang]

I have spent the last hour at work catching up on this thread... <3

[Laverne]

I'm not 100% but I do believe that the tbss is RWD only.. even a awd/4wd v8 in a tb is a super tight fit

[vomplegacy]

the ss comes in awd or rwd, i know because i have a loaded awd ss, not too shabby either, i ran a 13.5 with it stock.

[frank_ster]

So I raced a 2004 wry stage 2 18 psi boost with my 6 psi boost and I was a 2 car lengths ahead of him

[1454]

True, I just wanted it for the fact, like you, that I would have been the only person to do so. Plus, I have had an obsession with the LS series motors since I was a kid.

[quick4dr]

Zzperformance.com

[frank_ster]

^ uh ?