05 Legacy GT - Autospecialty XP rotors and Pads and Hawk HPS Review

[wsmith30132]

 

And yes, I can ride them occasionally to keep them dry so they work. I can also rub my crotch occasionally to keep it semi-hard. Just-in-case.

 

 

 

Kyle

 

 

:lol:

[JoeFromPA]

Hey rao,

 

I'm guessing they are fully broken in now. How do the autospeciality pads feel? How's the dust?

 

Also, just curious, any reason you didn't go with Hawk Ceramics? Seems like you just want OEM-style with 0 dust and long life on the pad and rotor?

 

I'm considering the Ceramics, since I don't mind them on my Civic SI.

 

For some reason I thought HPS was ceramic, but I've now read Ferro-Carbon. I'm guessing that Ferro-Carbon = bad in cold/wet weather until they get warm.

[rao]

They feel like angels are communicating with the great spirits and the car responds like a Thoroughbred ridden by a champion

 

They feel fine. I have not noticed any dust at all, but with this weather the car gets very dirty so it can be hard to tell.

 

I didn't see the Hawk Ceramics available with front rotors for $100 shipped or $35 for rear pads so they didn't make my list

 

I am quite happy with the set up.

[JoeFromPA]

Cool and I understand. I often hear angels communicating with me.

 

Forgot about the weather; not a good time for me to ask you to assess

 

I'm using Suby Bucks, hence my list is focused on what's available from fredbeans parts (currently focused on 5 quarts of Extra-S, HPS or HPS Ceramics, and a Motive Power Bleeder for some springtime fun).

 

Glad you are happy

[rao]

Me too

 

I have no idea on the HPS v HPS ceramic choice - I'd go with whichever one is marketed better

 

Pretty soon the Legacy will be driven a lot less so it will be hard to gauge the dust, if any.

 

Those power bleeders always seem to be more trouble then thay are worth - I have had good success using a Mity-Vac and the $0.50 hose and 2 person approach ALWAYS works

[JoeFromPA]

I've never used one, but I've heard the same stories. FredBeansParts has a really good reputation as a vendor and I've had good experiences with them, so my hope is that if it breaks or doesn't work (during my initial purchase, at which time I'll use it on 2 cars), they'll credit me or take it back. I'm using Suby Bucks so....ya know....

 

2 person approach is cool, but my wife was bored out of her mind last time

 

Maybe I'll ask her to turn the wrench next time.

[rao]

Well good luck.

[iNVAR]

Maybe I'll ask her to turn the wrench next time.

Heh heh....

[Guest]

Thanks Rao. I wonder if all the positive reviews of the Hawk HPS are people focused on doing hard braking from 100mph repeatedly? It seems the more I read about them for DD, the more they aren't a good choice.

 

Shame. And yes, I am someone who considers the stock 05+ LGT braking to be sub-par....mainly because the pedal absolutely sinks to the ground under panic braking. Maybe it's simply a matter of worn re92s and maybe the factory used brake fluid that was cut with h2o.

 

Nice price on those rear pads and rotors. Let us know how they dust once they've got some mileage on them!

 

Joe

 

Hawk HPS are fine pads. After putting them on otherwise stock brakes on my LGT #2, I am more than pleased with their performance. For reference, my LGT #1 runs Brembos all around, slotted 2-piece rotors, Ferrordo DS2500 pads and SS lines.

 

Heck, I like Hawk HPS better than highly touted Endless SSM pads. Hawks are quiet, have good bite, do not require warm up at all. They actually dust a fair amount, but that does not bother me. In fact I tend to think now, if there is no dust, there isn't much braking. HPSes got rid of my stock rotor deposits eliminating pretty severe vibration completely, and it never came back. It was constant issue with stock pads as well as the Endless pads. I recommend staying away from ceramic pads (stock and SSM are ceramic in fact).

 

rao's experience points at user's error, or he was using different pads than he thought he was.

[rao]

You are right, precisely how to use the brake pedal has always mystified me

 

As you can see from some of the replies in this thread and others, several people have had similar experiences with Hawk pads. I am sorry to besmirch the best brake pads i the world, but they didn't serve my purposes and apparently they didn't serve others' as well.

 

Thanks for adding your "brake cred" in your post -someone who has Brembo brakes on their car obviously knows everything there is to now about brakes

[Guest]

You are right, precisely how to use the brake pedal has always mystified me

 

As you can see from some of the replies in this thread and others, several people have had similar experiences with Hawk pads. I am sorry to besmirch the best brake pads i the world, but they didn't serve my purposes and apparently they didn't serve others' as well.

 

Thanks for adding your "brake cred" in your post -someone who has Brembo brakes on their car obviously knows everything there is to now about brakes

 

I am just saying the stock brakes with HPS pads are at least 85% of my Brembo setup. Absolutely good brakes for street, even spiritedly driven car. No problems in cold whatsover. But I guess Brembos are crap, so by extension the Hawks must be as well.

 

Yeah, indeed, it mystifies me what you could have done wrong with the brake pads to find them dismal, while many find them very good. Your report that they don't dust is suspect and indicates that maybe you got different pads as I said. My Hawk HPS dust a lot, way more than stock, almost as much as Ferrodo DS2500, which is a dusty pad.

[M3 Adjuster]

Hey rao,

 

I'm guessing they are fully broken in now. How do the autospeciality pads feel? How's the dust?

 

Also, just curious, any reason you didn't go with Hawk Ceramics? Seems like you just want OEM-style with 0 dust and long life on the pad and rotor?

 

I'm considering the Ceramics, since I don't mind them on my Civic SI.

 

For some reason I thought HPS was ceramic, but I've now read Ferro-Carbon. I'm guessing that Ferro-Carbon = bad in cold/wet weather until they get warm.

 

Hey Joe.. looks like only about 3-4 people really care to keep this on topic, which is interesting as the OP indicated this thread is not for most..

 

I was interested in this setup and went ahead and pulled the trigger. The brake rotors and pads came in the same box. They arrived about three days after I ordered them. There were no included instructions, which is not surprising. I was able to locate some quick instructions on another post here in the forums. I removed the calipers (hanging them from the front spring using a coat hanger) and then caliper carriers, which allowed the rotors to come off easily.. No worrisome set screw for the rotors which is interesting for a BMW guy.

 

Once I had the rotors on, I used a tool against the pad and eventually my hands to force the pistons back into the calipers, (don't forget to open/loosen the brake fluid reservoir top) inserted the new pads, and then put the entire caliper back onto the rotors and then tightened every thing down and tightened the reservoir cap.

 

Simple job, easy peasy... and the parts seem fine. This car is a primarily spouse driven daily driver, and I have been driving it the last few weeks to assist in bedding in the pads. Dusting appears to be minimal for those that are curious. Pedal feel is good. The OE pads had plenty of initial bite (actually maybe too much for me) and these are fine. I personally do not like a huge initial bite/dive with pads on my street or track cars, instead preferring even torque and good modulation from the initial press of the pedal, and more importantly in the middle range of pedal travel as I brake more firmly. One thing I have seen across several forums, is that people that are Hawk pad fans are essentially ruined for any other sort of pad. They love them some Hawk pads and any other pad seems inferior.

 

 

This was a very inexpensive, one stop shop, easy transaction and all the parts fit and work well. I had been hoping to find front pads and rotors through local auto parts stores, and no single store had everything in stock. I hate to admit that the front rotors have been warped for a good 25K of those miles, and I could have resolved this easily.

 

 

One data point that surprises me..... The front pads on our car lasted 70K miles. They still had a small amount left when I replaced them... Oddly, I actually replaced the REAR pads on this car at 50-55K!! It's very possible though that we have had extended front wear due to the fact that the rotors were warped, which encouraged longer, lighter application of the brakes.

 

 

So...if brakes and rotors are needed as per the original post... Consider these HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.

[rao]

I am just saying the stock brakes with HPS pads are at least 85% of my Brembo setup. Absolutely good brakes for street, even spiritedly driven car. No problems in cold whatsover. But I guess Brembos are crap, so by extension the Hawks must be as well.

 

Yeah, indeed, it mystifies me what you could have done wrong with the brake pads to find them dismal, while many find them very good. Your report that they don't dust is suspect and indicates that maybe you got different pads as I said. My Hawk HPS dust a lot, way more than stock, almost as much as Ferrodo DS2500, which is a dusty pad.

 

Ooh, the might Brembos are only 17.6% better than stock brakes with HPS pads

 

So Brembos reduce stopping distances by 17.6% over stock brakes with HPS pads -fascinating Great theory on the brake dust as well

 

You obviously didn't read the first post of this thead - you really should be spending your time calculating the best chamfer angle for your cross drilled rotors.

 

 

One data point that surprises me..... The front pads on our car lasted 70K miles. They still had a small amount left when I replaced them... Oddly, I actually replaced the REAR pads on this car at 50-55K!! It's very possible though that we have had extended front wear due to the fact that the rotors were warped, which encouraged longer, lighter application of the brakes.

 

 

So...if brakes and rotors are needed as per the original post... Consider these HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.

 

I have had friends with the same experience with rear pads - as you saw, the rear pads on the Legacy are pretty small compared to the front.

 

You obviously haven't read other posts on this forum that PROVED that rotors CANNOT BE WARPED, NEVER HAVE BEEN WARPED AND NEVER WILL BE WARPED

[JoeFromPA]

Thanks M3. My only complaint with the stock pads is that they have a absolutely terrible "mid-range" of the brake pedal. I find the initial bite/modulation to be just fine...not hard, but not 80s chevy truck soft either....but when you push down harder in the middle of the travel, the car just kinda doesn't act the way it should.

 

Otherwise, I've gotten at least 40k out of them (38k now, but they look fine), they dust very little, and they make no noise.

 

So what I'm looking for is a pad that will give you a really nice solid pedal in the middle and easily overwhelm the tires when I need braking power. And otherwise act stock.

 

Honestly, it seems like well broken in hawks OR autospeciality would work fine.

 

I'm not questioning Rao at all in this question, his knowledge or abilities, but based upon his initial post I'm wondering if he bedded in the Hawks and if that would make a world of difference. I only say that because, to Unclemat's credit, there are groups of people saying HPS is amazing, and another group saying it's not a good choice for street use....

 

but almost all reports say they dust a good amount.

 

Don't know. I'm sure it'll work out fine for me.

 

Thanks again for your review, and thanks to Rao for writing this and providing a really nice low-cost alternative for front pads and rotors.

 

Joe

[Guest]

I bedded the Hawks, so did a buddy when we installed them on his car, he also found them very good. My stock rotors have had good deal of deposits (the steering wheel was shaking real bad under heavy breaking) - it took few repeated bedding cycles to get rid of them. Until that happened I was disappointed with the brakes and wanted to upgrade that car to Brembos as well. Btw, part of the reason behind Brembos is far greater availability of pads, compared to the odd-ball stock Legacy brakes (odd ball, because the pads do not seem to be shared with any other application).

 

Btw, Stoptech recommends pad bedding, but what do they know about brakes, morons Rao with his mad math percentage calculating skills could teach them a lot about brakes, not too mention calculating the chamfer angle of the slots...

[rao]

If the stock brakes with HPS Magic pads are 85% of the Brembos then the Brembos are 17.6% better than the stock brakes with HPS Magic pads. So if the Brembo brakes stop in 100 feet, the stock brakes with HPS Magic pads will stop in 117.6 feet - that's just how the math works.

 

I would be happy to help anyone figure out the optimum chamfer angle for their drilled rotors, but not in this thread

 

Once again, there is a reason that the first post asked brake leg humpers to stay out and this is it

 

BTW, I spent all day trying to figure out how that damn brake pedal works, but it is just too complicated for me.

[Guest]

Pssst... don't tell rao Brembos actually do not shorten stopping distance, at least not at street legal speeds

[Gary Bechtold]

Hawk HPS on stock rotors works very well for me. Much better than stock pads in my experience.

[TPLGT]

This thread is awesome! Im in the mkt for new brakes...I have Hawk HPS F&R in the garage just waiting to go on....in for many more answers...

[LegacyMUN2k6]

I'm tempted to buy the front pads when it comes time to change my pads/rotors over. $25 W/Free shipping is a deal, just wondering how they would go with a set of project mu ns pads for the rear that I already have.

[JoeFromPA]

I went ahead and purchased a set of front pads. $25 with free shipping? It's hard to lose, especially given Rao's endorsement (and PowerStop being written on the back).

 

If they suck, I'm out $25 and an hour of time. If they are great, then I saved $50 over a competing pad and I can save my Suby Bucks for other stuff.

 

Thanks Rao!

 

Joe

[naimouasta]

damn. hawk hps reviews are confusing, LOL.

 

are the pads actually stamped "HPS" on them? if not maybe hawk packaged them incorrectly mixing hp+, hps, and ceramic. which would explain all these inconsistent reviews; no noise vs noisy, dusty vs no dust, good bite vs no bite.

[AZP Installs]

We've been in the brake business, road racing, and track instructing business for about 10 years now. We've installed well over 1000 sets of Hawk HPS pads for customers. We probably have 10,000 track miles and over 1,000,000 miles in daily NYC/NNJ daily driven miles on Hawk HPS pads. We've driven with Non-name rotors, medium name rotors, high end rotors. Hawk HP+, DTC30, Black, Blue and a number of other pads.

 

Here is our take....

 

Hawk HPS- Excellent stock replacment pad. Increased fade resistence, about 35-45k miles longevity, excellent cold stopping power. Can be used for Auto-x and Novice to Intermediate HPDE events. Low noise. Low dusting.

 

Hawk HP+ These are the limit on what a street pad can do in terms of temperature range. Fade resistence is higher than the HPS pads, grip is significantly higher, noise is a bit on the high side, and dust is increased as well. Great for an aggresive daily driver with Auto-x and HPDE track duty. Can be used generally up to and including Intermediate and Advanced HPDE groups.

 

DBA 4000- Great Rotors. Worth the price of admission? Nope. These had about 10-15% longer longevity than the Centric Rotors at more than 50% more cost.

 

Centric Rotors- Great Value rotors, usually last about 60-80k miles with Hawk HPS pads. We use these on our customers daily driver cars as well as our race cars.

 

Overall, after having test many many rotors and pad combinations, we've found that the Centric Rotors combined with Hawk HPS pads are the best value in terms of a stock replacement with an upgrade in longevity and stopping power without gaining the noise and dust of the Hawk HP+ pads.

 

-mike

http://AZPInstalls.com

[rao]

Would you say the Hawk HPS pads are 85% as good as a Brembo setup? It has also been proven in this very thread that low dust means that the brakes don't work, so the Hawk HPS pads must be bad since you say that they are low dust .

 

I appreciate your comments and the fact that the Hawk HPS pads are super awesome!

 

However, other people have had different experiences. If you have some insight on the thousands of Autospecialty pads and rotors, please share that information since that is what this thread is about.

 

To everyone - take your brake snobbery someplace else, there are plenty of threads and entire forums where you can wax poetic about the nuanced differences between bad materials, the different bedding in strategies and timing (should you re-bed every day, every week, or is once a month enough?)

[AZP Installs]

Would you say the Hawk HPS pads are 85% as good as a Brembo setup? It has also been proven in this very thread that low dust means that the brakes don't work, so the Hawk HPS pads must be bad since you say that they are low dust .

 

This is a bit of a loaded question. Comparing a set of pads to a whole brake setup very different than pads to pads or setups to setups.

 

However, I will agree with Uncle Mat in that for the above average street driven LGT that we see on here and in use today, the Hawk HPS pads on a stock setup are going to provide more than adequet power for the level of driving you should be doing on the street. If you are overdriving the HPS and Generic Rotors, then you should be at a track doing an HPDE, not driving on the street.

 

As for dusting being related to stopping power, I'm not sure if that was a joke or not but it is completely unrelated to the stopping power across different pads and different cost levels.

 

-mike