AZP Installs Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 However, other people have had different experiences. If you have some insight on the thousands of Autospecialty pads and rotors, please share that information since that is what this thread is about. Also the title of this thread is Hawk HPS Review, so discussion of my over 1M miles driven on Hawk HPS pads with various rotors is quite relevant. -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFromPA Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Mike, meet Rao. Rao, this is Mike. Mike - It takes awhile to learn the tao of Rao, but once you get it, you learn he is like an Onion. He has alot of layers, and every one of them will make you cry. But with a little salt, olive oil, butter, and sauteeing......mmm.... I forgot what I was talking about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Mmm butter, olive oil, sauteeing.... Damn I'm getting hungry now! It's all good. I never take too much on the internet too seriously. -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 8, 2010 Author Share Posted February 8, 2010 This is a bit of a loaded question. Comparing a set of pads to a whole brake setup very different than pads to pads or setups to setups. However, I will agree with Uncle Mat in that for the above average street driven LGT that we see on here and in use today, the Hawk HPS pads on a stock setup are going to provide more than adequet power for the level of driving you should be doing on the street. If you are overdriving the HPS and Generic Rotors, then you should be at a track doing an HPDE, not driving on the street. As for dusting being related to stopping power, I'm not sure if that was a joke or not but it is completely unrelated to the stopping power across different pads and different cost levels. -mike You raise some very interesting points. Please define "above average street use" That sounds like those drivers are very special. Since the Legacy is such a high performance car (people have said it is better than a Lamborghini and can outperform any Porsche) so I would assume that "above average" driving is not quite special enough for a Legacy. Also, maybe you could define "generic" rotors in terms of specifications and metallurgy. Might as well cover "medium name" and "high end" rotors as well. I am particularly interested in objective differences. If you are overdriving HPS pads and "medium name" or "high end" rotors (I am not sure that is possible given the differences in "medium name" or "high end" rotors) then surely at that point you also should be at a HPDE event. You didn't cover my question on re-bedding frequency and method. The dust issue is not a joke - it has been said in this very thread that no dust = bad brakes (the things you learn in this forum are always fascinating). Some have said the HPS pads dust a lot and some have said it does not, it has to be one or the other. Also the title of this thread is Hawk HPS Review, so discussion of my over 1M miles driven on Hawk HPS pads with various rotors is quite relevant. -mike You have driven 1,000,000 miles in a Legacy with Hawk HPS pads that is impressive. How many miles have you driven in a Legacy with Autospecialty XP rotors? Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Myself and my team have driven well over 1,000,000 miles on Hawk HPS pads in various vehicles. Not all Legacy GTs. -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 It's over simplification "no dust = no brakes" But there is a link. Low dust = ceramic pads. Ceramic pads are more likely prone to overheating and uneven deposits which decreases brake performance. Did you ever think why BMW with stock brakes have dusty as hell wheels? I yet to hear BMW breaks suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 You raise some very interesting points. Please define "above average street use" That sounds like those drivers are very special. Since the Legacy is such a high performance car (people have said it is better than a Lamborghini and can outperform any Porsche) so I would assume that "above average" driving is not quite special enough for a Legacy. I'm talking about the folks who are the target audience here on LGT.com Because if one says "average driver" people get bent out of shape saying "we aren't average drivers on here, we are enthusiasts" Also, maybe you could define "generic" rotors in terms of specifications and metallurgy. Might as well cover "medium name" and "high end" rotors as well. I am particularly interested in objective differences. Generic are any kind of stock rotor replacements such as found at NAPA, EBay, etc. I consider Mountain, Centric, NAPA, Autozone, Raybestos, Etc. all "generic" rotors. As opposed to ones that are heat treated or of a special metalic blend such as Stoptech, DBA 4000s, etc. If you are overdriving HPS pads and "medium name" or "high end" rotors (I am not sure that is possible given the differences in "medium name" or "high end" rotors) then surely at that point you also should be at a HPDE event. Agreed, HPS + Generic rotors no matter how hard you are sanely driving on the streets will work on the LGT. Beyond that you should be on a track and brakes for the track are a different discussion. You didn't cover my question on re-bedding frequency and method. We bed the pads whenever we install a new set of pads. 60->5mph about 10x in a row to get heat in them. Allow them to cool for 15-30 min before driving on them again. We SEASON rotors in a similar fashion however for that we do the 60->5mph 20x in a row and allow them to cool for at least 1hr. As for re-bedding in pads, if there are deposits on the rotors, rebedding may be needed as often as necessary, driving conditions dictate how often they need to be re-bedded in. The dust issue is not a joke - it has been said in this very thread that no dust = bad brakes (the things you learn in this forum are always fascinating). Some have said the HPS pads dust a lot and some have said it does not, it has to be one or the other. Dusting is a highly subjective thing. For instance, if one waxes their wheels then there appears to be no dusting, however the dust is just not accumulating on the wheels. I run hawk HP+ pads on my cadillac CTS-V, coincidently the same front pads that are in my Legacy GT front Brembos. On the CTS-V the dust doesn't build up, on the LGT the dust builds up. Same driving style, same roads, same exact pads, same centric rotors (larger on the CTS-v), similar 4-pot calipers, 300lb difference in car weights. However the CTS-V rims are a bit more waxed and don't have crevices to hold the dust on them. If we are going to compare dusting across different pad compounds the arguements get even more complicated due to each compound having different material makeup so a blanket statement of "more dust is better braking" is ridiculous at best. -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 8, 2010 Author Share Posted February 8, 2010 I'm talking about the folks who are the target audience here on LGT.com Because if one says "average driver" people get bent out of shape saying "we aren't average drivers on here, we are enthusiasts" Generic are any kind of stock rotor replacements such as found at NAPA, EBay, etc. I consider Mountain, Centric, NAPA, Autozone, Raybestos, Etc. all "generic" rotors. As opposed to ones that are heat treated or of a special metalic blend such as Stoptech, DBA 4000s, etc. How about some more detail on the sepcial metallic blend. Agreed, HPS + Generic rotors no matter how hard you are sanely driving on the streets will work on the LGT. Beyond that you should be on a track and brakes for the track are a different discussion. that is suprisng given how bad I constantly read that the Legacy's brakes are. We bed the pads whenever we install a new set of pads. 60->5mph about 10x in a row to get heat in them. Allow them to cool for 15-30 min before driving on them again. We SEASON rotors in a similar fashion however for that we do the 60->5mph 20x in a row and allow them to cool for at least 1hr. As for re-bedding in pads, if there are deposits on the rotors, rebedding may be needed as often as necessary, driving conditions dictate how often they need to be re-bedded in. That must get very confusing when you install new pads and rotors. The only way you could do it and follow your own rules would be to install the new rotors with the old pads and SEASON them and then install the new pads and bed them. Otherwise you would not be able to properly bed the pads since you can only do 10 stops but you need 20 in a row to season the rotors. Let's say my driving conditions are "above average" street use - how often should they be rebedded and do the rotors ever need reseasoning? a blanket statement of "more dust is better braking" is ridiculous at best. -mike That's what I said, but since I have no idea what I am talking about it it is nice to have validation. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 How about some more detail on the sepcial metallic blend. Not a metalurgist, but the DBA 4000s I know are heat treated and other "high end" ones are of different compounds. I know when we were testing for Racing Brake a number of years ago we tried out a special Nickle compound rotor. that is suprisng given how bad I constantly read that the Legacy's brakes are. Usually those folks are regurgitating crap they have heard/read, or they have massive pad deposits. That must get very confusing when you install new pads and rotors. The only way you could do it and follow your own rules would be to install the new rotors with the old pads and SEASON them and then install the new pads and bed them. Otherwise you would not be able to properly bed the pads since you can only do 10 stops but you need 20 in a row to season the rotors. Seasoning incorporates bedding of new pads. You can do the bedding process 20x however after 10 it's not going to help bed them any "better". The more important part of Seasoning is the 1hr cool-down time. And no, once you season rotors, they are seasoned, there is no re-seasoning them. Let's say my driving conditions are "above average" street use - how often should they be rebedded and do the rotors ever need reseasoning? It depends, re-bedding is usually need for folks who are often in a situation of stop and go traffic. In stop and go traffic you have lots of heat buildup and lots of time sitting on the brakes while stopped or going slowly. This leads to pad material transfer to the micro-cracks in the rotors. Re-bedding removes this embedded material. -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegacyMUN2k6 Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 What about mixing different brands of pads?, when it comes time to change everything over. I will be running the stoptech ceramics in the front, with project mu ns in the rear along with plain ole' run of the mill generic blanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimakf7 Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 ^^ Not really a good idea... you'll change your brake bias... especially if you're mixing ceramics/ non-ceramics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 You generally don't want to be mixing pads unless you are doing it to try to equalize your brake distribution due to having different calipers (like Brembo fronts and stock rears). -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetic1 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Not a HUGE issue when youre only talking about a street car... Free Sonax Cleaner Deal http://www.brakeswap.com Carbotech, Hawk, PFC, DBA Rotors, Motul, Wilwood, Castrol... Great service. No bumping required ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFromPA Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Also won't have much of an effect if the car has EBD. I just received the powerstop "Autospeciality" brake pads as detailed on Rao's front page. I'll send in a few pictures I took once my home internet gets back up and running. For now though, they are exactly the same as these: http://www.buybrakes.com/store/z16-1078 http://www.powerstop.com/content.wws?fname=technicaldata.html#friction&cookieID=2V80MA0G42V80MB8D8&source=google&clientid=powerstop.com For $25 shipped, I feel confident that I'll get my money's worth out of them one way or another Also, I'm a little concerned that the brake pads came with no installation instructions! These mount on the outside of my rim, right? Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegacyMUN2k6 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 How does everyone like these compared to oem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFromPA Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 They look good sitting on a shelf. Bad weather + lack of a garage + selling my house + getting promoted + working on 10 graduate credits = brakes sit for awhile. They're $25 pads. I expect them to bite with the force of 1000 piranhas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegacyMUN2k6 Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 I'm gonna pair these with some ebc yellowstuff in the rear, found out my two year old project mu pads will fit an older subaru and not my current lgt. Even thoe they list a 06 spec.b as fitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegacyMUN2k6 Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280476235413&viewitem=&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D2&category=33564 Here is the link for the rear, going to see If I can get just the rotors. Don't need the rear pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Wow, so for $200 shipped you can get generic rotors and pads... pretty good price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingray1967 Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 rao, any update on the XP pads? Thinking about swapping my HPS pads out, they're scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 So far so good Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingray1967 Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 So far so good How firm / spongy is the pedal? Any different than with the stock pads/rotors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 The pedal is firm I haven't had stock pads on the car for about 4 years so I can't really compare. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingray1967 Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Are you running SS lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFromPA Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Stingray - These pads are $25 and look like normal pads. If you don't like the hawks, it's a cheap investment and 45 minutes of your time to swap them on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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