Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and DW750s

[LittleBlueGT]

LBGT do you see potential for a 8cm or 9cm or 10cm housing allowing you to make efficient boost up top? Or would the compressor be at the end of the line?

 

There is a little more in my compressor, I would say at least 20 whp, maybe even 35 whp. There was in the one that EFI (IIRC) tuned.

 

Even the ones that run 21+ psi at rec-line, I am not convinced they are actually running 340-350 g/s, but I could easily be wrong.

[LittleBlueGT]

Quick question:

 

The bracket that holds the UP in place (the one that bolts to the block, not the head), is there one bolt holding it to the block, or two? If there are two, how do I get the other one out while the turbo is still in place (and DP etc...) or is that not possible?

[m sprank]

I think the turbo has to come out. The second bolt is sideways (facing drivers side). You might be able to get it from below. It is tight in there. Kind of next to the oil return tube from below. Is this the one you are talking about? Drivers side of turbo bracket on uppipe?

 

 

Also, I am switching from my Typhoon to a KS 73mm type 2. So this will help alleviate one variable between our set ups for comparison.

[LittleBlueGT]

I think the turbo has to come out. The second bolt is sideways (facing drivers side). You might be able to get it from below. It is tight in there. Kind of next to the oil return tube from below. Is this the one you are talking about? Drivers side of turbo bracket on uppipe?

 

 

Also, I am switching from my Typhoon to a KS 73mm type 2. So this will help alleviate one variable between our set ups for comparison.

 

I thought so, getting good at draining coolant, slipping the oil return line on, etc..... Still HATE it!

[m sprank]

I hate the return hose. On OEM cars it is the worst. I made mine "special" so it is easier to get back on.

[LittleBlueGT]

I hate the return hose. On OEM cars it is the worst. I made mine "special" so it is easier to get back on.

 

You gonna "explain"?

[ClimberDHexMods]

You gonna "explain"?

 

" "

[m sprank]

Used Goodyear heater hose. Cut it about an inch or two longer than stock. Attatched to block tube and shoved all the way down to the turn then clamped (it will not move up or down). Now when I pull the turbo it comes off easy like normal (using a spring type clamp on the turbo end). When I reseat it, I just push the spring clamp down a bit and because the line is longer and secure I can force the turbo onto it before pushing into the inlet. Took a few times to get the hose the perfect length. I could measure it for you when I pull the turbo again. From the bottom I just push the spring clamp over the "barb" for added security.

 

The tubes did not line up perfect in the beginning either causing misalignment and struggle. This is how it came from the factory. I bent the pipes by hand just enough to line up better.

 

Glad to know I am not the only one who despises the oil return line.

[LittleBlueGT]

I understand, thanks.

 

I hate that spring clamp. I replaced it with a worm type one last time.

[m sprank]

I only use it on "top". The turbo outlet.

 

It is hard for me to get my hands up there to set and tighten a worm clamp. I have done it before and then cursed myself when I went to pull the turbo.

 

The spring clamp gives more than enough pressure to hold the hose and keep the oil in. It makes pulling the turbo a breeze and is easier for me to put back on. If you can get a worm gear on and off efficiently, go for it. I admire you for your dexterity and patience.

 

I deff use a worm gear on the "bottom" as this is what secures the hose and makes removal and reinstall easier.

[Ridgeracer]

I understand, thanks.

 

I hate that spring clamp. I replaced it with a worm type one last time.

 

Ditto here...Had a little accident with the car yesterday. I was coming from NJ from a meeting. Started to do a log and saw boost went way over target. I was up to 22psi until fuel cut shut it down. Looked at the log and knew exactly what the problem was. Turned out where the boost tap for the wg actuator have a broken vacuum line. I was messing around with that section of charge pipe last week. I had incremental FBKC during the pull. Long and short, I put a plug in the tap in the charge pipe and used the boost tap on the compressor housing. My old turbo never had a tap from the wastegate on the compressor housing.

[LittleBlueGT]

Ditto here...Had a little accident with the car yesterday. I was coming from NJ from a meeting. Started to do a log and saw boost went way over target. I was up to 22psi until fuel cut shut it down. Looked at the log and knew exactly what the problem was. Turned out where the boost tap for the wg actuator have a broken vacuum line. I was messing around with that section of charge pipe last week. I had incremental FBKC during the pull. Long and short, I put a plug in the tap in the charge pipe and used the boost tap on the compressor housing. My old turbo never had a tap from the wastegate on the compressor housing.

 

 

Good thing you had your boost target low enough so that ECU boost cut could still work.

 

How much FBKC?

[Ridgeracer]

About 3 degs. AFRs were about 10.7 - 10.8.

[LittleBlueGT]

About 3 degs. AFRs were about 10.7 - 10.8.

 

That sounds OK then. Did the FBKC come during the peak boost, or as throttle was cut?

 

FWIW, the way I have my tune set-up, I can run a MBC and hit an easy 26 psi in the mid-range, and not have any knock at all. Maybe you could take out a touch of timing in those cells you do not normally hit when your boost is controlled? I know it is hard to do perfectly, since your airflow, and thus load, increases because of different temps.

 

Just a thought.

[LittleBlueGT]

I suppose I haven't posted anything much tune related recently.

 

I have made a few changes, but I think I forgot what they were. I did some changes to the tip-in tables, not actual tip-in values, but the values that determine how long tip-in stays active for, things that changed with a FMIC.

 

If I honestly knew what I was doing I would write more about it. But I do notice that I don't seem to much of a FMIC AFR dip after peak boost that many complain about...... Will know more when I have the WB back in.

 

In the mean-time. I did notice that I would get more knock (or knock sum incrementation) at lowish loads when it was cold out side. I decided to combat that with this table: (old values were 0% at .2 and .4 load rows, and 100% at everything above that)

 

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/8497/timingcompa.jpg

 

 

Now when the ECU is adding 2 or 3 degrees due to IAT, it will not add the full amount of extra timing until it is above 1.4 load. Many of you never see these temps, so it wouldn't matter to you.

 

I thought it seemed more logical to have the table like this (I may change it further in relation to rpms) as the added timing is not a percentage, but a straight value. Adding 3 degrees to 30 is different then adding 3 degrees to 12. IDK. I won't know if it works till next winter likely.

[Ridgeracer]

That sounds OK then. Did the FBKC come during the peak boost, or as throttle was cut?

 

FWIW, the way I have my tune set-up, I can run a MBC and hit an easy 26 psi in the mid-range, and not have any knock at all. Maybe you could take out a touch of timing in those cells you do not normally hit when your boost is controlled? I know it is hard to do perfectly, since your airflow, and thus load, increases because of different temps.

 

Just a thought.

 

Well when Mikeyd and I were working on boost control, we lowered DA in the higher load cells from 7 to 4. DA table is only scaled up to 3.5. Here is the log. It seems like it pulled timing more so for the higher AFR vs boost...IDK

romraiderlog_20100521_130557.csv

[LittleBlueGT]

Well when Mikeyd and I were working on boost control, we lowered DA in the higher load cells from 7 to 4. DA table is only scaled up to 3.5. Here is the log. It seems like it pulled timing more so for the higher AFR vs boost...IDK

 

Knock sum incremented twice when overboosting, then once on fuel cut. I think you are fine, but of course I wouldn't like it either.

 

Notice how you were over-boosting for well over 1.5 secs? You could change that one parameter that is the delay before ECU cuts boost, so it would cut it sooner if the same thing happened again.

[NSFW]

If I honestly knew what I was doing I would write more about it. But I do notice that I don't seem to much of a FMIC AFR dip after peak boost that many complain about...... Will know more when I have the WB back in.

 

In the mean-time. I did notice that I would get more knock (or knock sum incrementation) at lowish loads when it was cold out side. I decided to combat that with this table: (old values were 0% at .2 and .4 load rows, and 100% at everything above that)

 

My IAT compensation activation looks almost the same. My purpose had nothing to do with knock, I was just trying to make the car run smoother. Right from the first test-drive I thought it was strange how the power seemed to come on in 'notches' so after I got into tuning I started looking for tables that had staircase shapes, to see if smoothing them out would help. This was one of those. I don't remember now which changes were most effective, but when I hit the gas there are fewer notches than before. It's not completely smooth, but I guess the rest are in tables that haven't been documented yet.

[Ridgeracer]

Knock sum incremented twice when overboosting, then once on fuel cut. I think you are fine, but of course I wouldn't like it either.

 

Notice how you were over-boosting for well over 1.5 secs? You could change that one parameter that is the delay before ECU cuts boost, so it would cut it sooner if the same thing happened again.

 

Do you remember off the top of your head the name of this table??

[LittleBlueGT]

Do you remember off the top of your head the name of this table??

 

I don't see it now in my ROM.

 

IIRC the last time I saw it was in ATR in my friend's 09 WRX. Maybe it is not a defined table in our car, IDK.

[LittleBlueGT]

Cracked my GS EWG UP while driving through a big puddle the other day.

 

At any rate, I am going back to IWG, what pre-load are you guys running on your 68HTAs? Where it was when you bought it? 2 turns more?

 

Just curious for a starting out setting.

[Ridgeracer]

Good question LBGT...I didn't touch mines at all but 2 turns seems about right for a starting point just to insure the flapper is closed tight.

[ClimberDHexMods]

Cracked my GS EWG UP while driving through a big puddle the other day.

 

At any rate, I am going back to IWG, what pre-load are you guys running on your 68HTAs? Where it was when you bought it? 2 turns more?

 

Just curious for a starting out setting.

 

Sorry to hear that, though not a big surprise (GS again).

 

Very interested to hear what quantifiable differences you see between EWG plumbed into DP vs IWG

[LittleBlueGT]

Sorry to hear that, though not a big surprise (GS again).

 

Very interested to hear what quantifiable differences you see between EWG plumbed into DP vs IWG

 

EWG on my AVO380 hardly made me any power at all.

 

I even ran the 68HTA once on IWG (I just took the boost lines off the EWG and put them on the IWG w/ a MBC).... Again there wasn't a huge difference, but I didn't spend much time work on it.

 

On my AVO380 my g/s per psi went up, but my maximum high rpm boost I could run went down.

[LittleBlueGT]

Back to IWG on the 68HTA, maybe lost 5 whp, or maybe 3, IDK. It wasn't much.

 

I am actually liking things much better. It is true, that boost is harder to tune, but I like having the WG start to open at about 6 or 7 psi. Now I can drive slightly aggressive, w/o boosting instantly up to 1.0 bar (the pressure my EWG was rated at).

 

I even changed my DBW tables to able to drive smoother at lower boost levels, but it was hard. IWG FTW on medium to small turbos is my current view.

 

 

I also decided to check how accurate my front O2 in the DP was vs my WB. This was a little shocking to me. I found it to be off by about 6 or 7%. So all that tuning I did at 11:1 AFR was actually at 11.7 or so! It seemed to be pretty good down to about 12.5:1 or so, but after that it showed too rich, despite the fact that it wasn't pre-turbo.

 

Well, I can pretty decent timing now, on 94, and I can actually run 15 tapering to 24.5 on alky! WHP is at about 330-335 in the summer. I am sure it will be easily 360 or so in the winter. That is up about 30 whp or so from the AVO380. I attribute 20 whp to the turbo, and 10 or 15 to the FMIC. I am not injecting as much alky anymore.

 

I promise to show more graphs, but I have just been too busy.

 

I was asked a few times for a scalar for the KSTech intake. So here is mine. It may be a bit rich for you guys that have gas w/o 10% Ethanol in it:

 

       1.10   1.17   1.24   1.31   1.38   1.45   1.52   1.59   1.66    1.73    1.80    1.87    1.94    2.01    2.08    2.15    2.22    2.29    2.36    2.43    2.50    2.57    2.64    2.71    2.78    2.85    2.92    2.99    3.06    3.13    3.20    3.27     3.34     3.41     3.48     3.55     3.62     3.69     3.76    3.83     3.90     3.97     4.04     4.11     4.18     4.25     4.32     4.39     4.46     4.53     4.60     4.67     4.74     4.81
      2.64   3.27   4.06   4.92   6.01   7.06   8.18   9.61   11.18   12.97   14.97   16.9   19.03   21.59   24.28   26.92   30.01   33.45   37.15   40.94   45.20   49.12   53.98   58.69   63.73   67.66   73.13   79.59   87.92    95.1   102.17   109.44   115.83   123.48   133.38   141.38   149.33   157.34   167.17   178.5   191.59   201.4   213.32   224.44   238.97   252.91   268.35   285.15   303.63   321.66   341.88   362.63   383.01   405.68