mattg Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 something I got from this thread at NASIOC - http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=830290 From the Odyssey website address the CCA peformance of this battery... "Cold Cranking Amps: For all the power, durability, and life of our technology, the cca ratings can seem disapointing. That's because the cca ratings are misunderstood. Odyssey batteries are SLI (starting, lighting and ignition), so if you are looking for a starting or reserve battery the cold cranking numbers can be irrelevant. The "standard" cca test measures the output of a battery for 30 seconds of crank at 0 degrees with the ending voltage of the battery being 7.2v. Some companies use 15 or 20 seconds and some companies use 32 degrees which can make for better results. A vehicles starter isn't designed to withstand 30 seconds of cranking so we feel the batteries starting power is more important. The Odyssey part numbers represent the 5 second cranking power of the battery. The PC680 is rated at 680 amps for 5 seconds, 595 amps for 10 seconds, and 525 amps for 20 seconds. Cranking power is even higher for the first four seconds. Similar sized lead acid batteries are only rated at 180 - 220 amps. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 ^^ Further points to it being more of a capacitor than a battery My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandman Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 One thing to keep in mind is that there are "Southern" batteries designed to live under high temps, and "Northern" batteries designed to be able to crank while cold. AGM batteries are pretty standard on sailboats nowadays. Unless you have unusual loads, they're hard to justify. I usually look to see how long the free replacement period is. Costco is pretty tough to beat. CR used to list who manufactured the batteries tested as there are only three major US manufacturers. It was common enough for a particular brand name to switch source, or even have two different sources for different sizes. The majority of car batteries are created by 3 manufacturers - Delphi, Exide and Johnson Controls Industries. Delphi makes some EverStart models sold in Walmart and ACDelco. Johnson Control Industries makes Duralast seen in Autozone stores, Diehard - sold in Sears, Kirkland - the Costco brand, Motorcraft - which Ford sells, some of the EverStarts, and Interstate. Exide makes Exide batteries, Champion, Napa and even a % of the EverStart batteries. The Nov issue of CR has test results on auto batteries. Haven't seen the article, so can't comment on the test results. Recommended For cold-weather climates: Kirkland [Costco] Signature 12866 $75 (65) EverStart Maxx-65N (North) $75 (65) NAPA Select 84 $82 (34/78 & 78) EverStart Maxx-24N (North) $75 (24/24F) EverStart Maxx-35N (North) $75 (35) EverStart Maxx-75N (North) $75 (75) Group 35 Duralast Gold 35-DLG http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/ftn2.gif 93 79 http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxx.gifhttp://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxz.gifhttp://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxx.gif 36/96 • 640 http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/Best-Buy.gif EverStart Maxx-35N (North) http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/ftn6.gif 75 79 http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxx.gifhttp://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxz.gifhttp://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxx.gif 36/108 • 640 DieHard Gold 33035 (North) http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/ftn1.gif 110 78 http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxx.gifhttp://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxz.gifhttp://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxz.gif 36/100 • • 640 Interstate Mega-Tron Plus MTP-35 90 68 http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxc.gifhttp://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxz.gifhttp://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxx.gif 30/85 640 Who Dares Wins スバル Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 even while running. The Alternator can only do so much, the battery has to give out some juice when the Alt can't keep up. When it's snowing outside, you'll have all those heaters on, lights, radio... it adds up quick. Alternators produce alternating current, we have a generator The "generator" is rated at 110A, now without going through the manual and finding exact current draw of all the items you mention I can't say exactly, but the generator is more than capable of supplying them all, and recharging the battery after starting. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saul_Good Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 even while running. The Alternator can only do so much, the battery has to give out some juice when the Alt can't keep up. When it's snowing outside, you'll have all those heaters on, lights, radio... it adds up quick. Putting one of those tiny lightweight batteries in your car is fine if you are willing to sacrafice reliability. I'm not saying they are bad batteries, I'm saying they don't have alot of reserve capacity. CCA is only a measure of how many amps the battery can give out all at once. So these little batteries are more like capacitors, they can give out alot of juice, but for a only very short time. These batteries don't belong in a daily driven car. They're not all that much more expensive than a regular battery, yet they are less than half the weight. So then why doesn't a Corvette come with one? Or any car trying to save weigth for that matter? I've run all of my accessories (alot) at the same time over the winters and have had no ill effects or even a hint of it, the battery continues to give me reliable service and i am very happy with it. As for the comment with the corvette motors, i'll give you the "i have a buddy..." phrase. I have a buddy that has the exact same battery on his Turbo LS1 RX7 and he's had it a bit longer than I have and he's had no problems either in getting his motor to turnover even in the winters. If the battery can reliably start/power his big 5.7L motor with no problems, i'd say it can handle my little 2.5L fine. To be honest i would have gotten a braille (even smaller), but since i got the Hawker for less than what a braille costed, i went with the Hawker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Track Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 To be honest i would have gotten a braille (even smaller), but since i got the Hawker for less than what a braille costed, i went with the Hawker. As I pointed out before, you don't have to pay for a Braille when the exact same battery is available under the name DEKA for 1/2 the price. There is nothing wrong with running these lightweight batteries in DD cars in temperate climates, even with a decent sound system. Mine is now entering its 3rd year of service and my car starts on the 3rd rev every time. If a person lives where it snows, these batteries are not for you during the winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Alternators produce alternating current, we have a generator The "generator" is rated at 110A Our "generator" produces alternating current which is then rectified into DC current. It's still called an alternator. Lets say the stock radio is a hefty 18watts rms per channel. That's a draw of 6amps at 12 volts. Front Wiper 6A Rear Wiper 3.5A That's just a few basic things... it begins to add up really, really quick. That 110 amps is plenty for normal conditons, but try and drive ona snowy night, and you may find you need 130amps. Also, where in the rpm range is it 110A? Idle, probably not. I bet it's peak output is around 3000rpm. The output of the alternator is matched to about 98% of expected conditions. EVERY manufacturer does this, they design the parts for 98% of the expected conditions, and hope it survives the other 2%. That means that at some point, you will run into that 2% and if you're battery isn't up to snuff, you will be stranded and in need of a jump Side note, flipping through the service manual, 5EAT and 5MT get different size batteries. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Our "generator" produces alternating current which is then rectified into DC current. It's still called an alternator. Lets say the stock radio is a hefty 18watts rms per channel. That's a draw of 6amps at 12 volts. Front Wiper 6A Rear Wiper 3.5A That's just a few basic things... it begins to add up really, really quick. That 110 amps is plenty for normal conditons, but try and drive ona snowy night, and you may find you need 130amps. Also, where in the rpm range is it 110A? Idle, probably not. I bet it's peak output is around 3000rpm. The output of the alternator is matched to about 98% of expected conditions. EVERY manufacturer does this, they design the parts for 98% of the expected conditions, and hope it survives the other 2%. That means that at some point, you will run into that 2% and if you're battery isn't up to snuff, you will be stranded and in need of a jump Side note, flipping through the service manual, 5EAT and 5MT get different size batteries. The output is DC, that's why it's referred to as a generator in the manual Looks like every car in Canada is doomed then, driving on a snowy night with everything on will kill the battery 17 - Charging System.pdf Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Well, don't know if I made a bad choice or not, but picked up an Energizer 35-640E battery from Sam's Club, $60. 640 cold cranking amps, 800 amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugblatterbeast Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Looks like every car in Canada is doomed then, driving on a snowy night with everything on will kill the battery I have to agree with Phil on this one. at -20, with the defoggers on, lights on, ass warmers on and at idle, I've yet to pull the electrical system voltage below 13.8. The alternator was sized large enough so we are not draining the battery just sitting at idle. On the other hand, I'm still a fan of stuffing the largest battery you can fit under the hood. If your alternator dies or the belt breaks and you are in the middle of nowhere on a cold night, you are SOL without a big battery. It also helps a lot with -40 starting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 My work truck alterantor took a dump.. I drove 50 miles before the battery died to the point where the engien wouldn't run. Then, after sitting overngiht, the battery recovered enough to start the engine and get me to the shop. but that thing has a HUGE battery in it. I leave the lights on all the time and it always cranks no problem... but again, that battery is over twice teh size of ours. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 My old man's RAM 3500 has TWO large batteries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJMC Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Anyone know anything about Autocraft batteries? Advance Auto Parts sells them around me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJMC Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I went and bought an Autocraft Titanium battery from Advance Auto Parts. I know nothing about batteries but it starts up just fine. :-) OEM battery terminals were leaking acid and were all crystal looking. Start up these past few cold days seemed like almost a struggle too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 ^^ you probably could've gotten away with just cleaning your terminals My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I just put in the Interstate Megatron Plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJMC Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 ^^ you probably could've gotten away with just cleaning your terminals I did that a few months ago and they were spotless. Then they started leaking again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 One thing to keep in mind is that there are "Southern" batteries designed to live under high temps, and "Northern" batteries designed to be able to crank while cold. AGM batteries are pretty standard on sailboats nowadays. Unless you have unusual loads, they're hard to justify. I usually look to see how long the free replacement period is. Costco is pretty tough to beat. CR used to list who manufactured the batteries tested as there are only three major US manufacturers. It was common enough for a particular brand name to switch source, or even have two different sources for different sizes. Group 35 Duralast Gold 35-DLG http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/ftn2.gif 93 79 http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxx.gifhttp://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxz.gifhttp://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxx.gif 36/96 • 640 http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/Best-Buy.gif EverStart Maxx-35N (North) http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/ftn6.gif 75 79 http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxx.gifhttp://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxz.gifhttp://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxx.gif 36/108 • 640 DieHard Gold 33035 (North) http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/ftn1.gif 110 78 http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxx.gifhttp://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxz.gifhttp://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxz.gif 36/100 • • 640 Interstate Mega-Tron Plus MTP-35 90 68 http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxc.gifhttp://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxz.gifhttp://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/zxx.gif 30/85 640 Surprised to see a top rated battery from Walmart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilh Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 There is no way that the alternator cannot handle radio + both defrosters + both heated seats. I do that often in the winter and the battery is being adequately charged. Enough FUD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattg Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 I do it too, all winter long, leaving my car at the mountain in cold temps. I'm running the stock battery which seems to be doing OK for now. I also have an aftermarket stereo system with a pretty large Boston 5 channel amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted November 26, 2008 Author Share Posted November 26, 2008 I've never been in a car I couldn't overwhelm the alternator. If the electrical system is working properly, you won't even know the alt is maxed out... Unless you know what to look for My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 What would you look for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexster Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 AutoZone Gold for $80ish. Great battery with an 8 year warranty. If for any reason it fails you bring it into any autozone and they will lookup your phone number (no receipt needed) and swap you a new one. the gold only gets free replacement for 3 years, then it's pro-rated for the next 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted November 27, 2008 Author Share Posted November 27, 2008 What would you look for? battery voltage should be about 14.4v when alt is charging, and around 13.8 when the battery is mostly full. It's rarely full unless you've been highway driving for well over an hour. So anytime the voltage drops below 14.4, the battery is putting out. You can notice subtle changes in light brightness and sometimes the engine feels like it's under more load at low revs. It's hard to explain without having a car in front of you. I was polishing my rotors last night and had the radio on for several hours while I had the battery charger hooked up. The battery was already fully charged cause the charger was on float. Once I turned the key to ACC, the charger went up to 5.7A. So running the radio in my car at low volume is about 6A. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 So the Autozone Gold is recommeded? I have about 2500rms watts I am pushing, I have always ran Optima's in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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