OutofSight84 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Maybe i'm going crazy, but not being able to drive my M3 much at all in the last few months has really got me wondering if an all season performance car is the way to go. I've liked the LGTs for awhile, when I sold my RSX it was between a Spec B and an M3, i went with the latter, an 02 however. The car is amazing and it would be hard to part with it, but between the weather and the horrible roads around here i'm not able to enjoy the car to its full potential. Ive also been checking out S60Rs, but the LGT-B seems more... painless to own and mod. So the question is, can I build an LGT to M3 performance numbers and still maintain a civilized vehicle? I do own an '00 outback now and im definitely not crazy about the ride quality and rattles (although it does have 82k, 78k of which I didnt own the car for). Next question would be... who wants to trade me theirs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 How serious are you? I'm in Chicago LS2 that M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawdaddy79 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Don't worry dude... Very soon Al Gore will win and you won't have to worry about snow or ice or having AWD ever again. I doubted Al when I bought my Suby - only to have almost no snow from the day I got it. Wish I would have gotten a TSX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urfsin Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 You can make the LGT as fast as your M3 for a few grand. Ride quality can still be very good. 00' Outback is light years beheind the 05'+ LGT in terms of performance and quality, so it's a bad comparison. Slide It Sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 What's the crank HP for the M3, and how much does it weigh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutofSight84 Posted February 12, 2008 Author Share Posted February 12, 2008 What's the crank HP for the M3, and how much does it weigh? 333hp; ~3350lbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 A Legacy should get near to that power/weight with upgraded exhaust and a retuned ECU ($1k-3k depending). Upgrade the turbo & intercooler & maybe fuel pump & injectors (~$1k-$6k more, depending) and a Legacy will exceed that by a little or a lot. And you'll probably want to put another grand or two into the suspension and brakes. And a few hundred on tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 The answer is yes. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnAWD Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 M3 > LGT. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhabodav Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 M3 > LGT. Period. Bullsh*t on this statement....what are we looking at here? Practicality LGT> M3.....stock track performance LGT<M3.........Can you really be practical with the M3? no you cant, you have to own another car next to it. There is not as much interior space, trunk space or the capability of driving it in the winter. THEN you have BMW service costs....tuning costs you out the ASS. My turboback 1100 dollars and my used to be friends turboback was like 5 grand with installation. Parts are so much more expensive for it and unless you turbo it or super it....you are not going to get above 420 crank. To get to that stage you need to sell your house, your soul, and your grandchildren for it.....Oh yeah and the daily ride quality of the M3 is worse, and the clearance is worse..... oh yeah i see a pattern, bmw owners are pricks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tytek Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 modified LGT > M3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 The Legacy will never impress your friends and it isn't as expensive feeling as the M3. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubLGTaru Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Werd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Bullsh*t on this statement....what are we looking at here? Practicality LGT> M3.....stock track performance LGT<M3.........Can you really be practical with the M3? no you cant, you have to own another car next to it. There is not as much interior space, trunk space or the capability of driving it in the winter. THEN you have BMW service costs....tuning costs you out the ASS. My turboback 1100 dollars and my used to be friends turboback was like 5 grand with installation. Parts are so much more expensive for it and unless you turbo it or super it....you are not going to get above 420 crank. To get to that stage you need to sell your house, your soul, and your grandchildren for it.....Oh yeah and the daily ride quality of the M3 is worse, and the clearance is worse..... oh yeah i see a pattern, bmw owners are pricks The M3 can be FAST; LS2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 If your gonan put a ls2 in a car go with a rx-7 or 240sx, far cheaper cars, that are far lighter, the M3 is 3415lbs, so aobut the same as our legacys, most 02 m3s are mid 13 to high 13 second cars, they lack torque a stage 2 legacy can run mid to high 13s easy. So a up pipe, down pipe and a AP, go a little extra, new intercoller some other bolt ons and you could take stock m3s easy. I have never seen a bone stock m3 run lower than a 13.4. I know a stage 2 legacy can run a 13.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 If your gonan put a ls2 in a car go with a rx-7 or 240sx, If you only knew :lol: S10 for me please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvethesnow Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 S10 for me please guy in my office had an ls2 in his s10. best bang for your buck swap if you have and S10 with a v6 and manual. its pretty much just a swap History does not entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid People sleep peacefully at night cause rough men stand ready to do violence on there behalf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Yup already priced it out several ways I just need the time Nothing like spinning 3rd and 4th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artmasterx Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 The stock suspension/wheel setup on the LGT would be much worse than the M3 (ignoring the comfort factor). LGT's have relatively narrow 7" wheels with 215/45r17 tires. I'm not sure what the M3's are, but i would guess at least 245's in the rear. So you would probably be looking at the following to get a LGT that handles anywhere close to an M3: - Front and rear sway bars, endlinks $500 - 8" wide wheels and 235 tires $1000++ - New springs ($300-500) or coilovers ($1500+) - Brake pads (as mentioned before) $150 Just my opinion on the handling aspect I have been wanting an M3 ever since the new ones came out in 01... now that I am in the northeast, it is hard to justify one (if anyone can ever justify such a thing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Im glad you think an ls2 is best bang for you buck in a S-10 a 400hp s-10 aint bad, but you can get a crate motor with around 150-200more hp for the same price as a ls2. With that crate motor having racing internals you could throw a 300 shot on it and make 450-500more hp than a ls2 for around the same price, although you would need alot more work to drivetrain but i highly doubt a stock s-10 drivetrain can handle 400hp to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 The stock suspension/wheel setup on the LGT would be much worse than the M3 (ignoring the comfort factor). LGT's have relatively narrow 7" wheels with 215/45r17 tires. I'm not sure what the M3's are, but i would guess at least 245's in the rear. So you would probably be looking at the following to get a LGT that handles anywhere close to an M3: - Front and rear sway bars, endlinks $500 - 8" wide wheels and 235 tires $1000++ - New springs ($300-500) or coilovers ($1500+) - Brake pads (as mentioned before) $150 Just my opinion on the handling aspect I have been wanting an M3 ever since the new ones came out in 01... now that I am in the northeast, it is hard to justify one (if anyone can ever justify such a thing). ^ The OP is thinking Spec.B w/OEM 18s so some of your suspension points do not apply. Some OEMs are going to taller not wider tires favouring a longer contact patch over a wider one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Im glad you think an ls2 is best bang for you buck in a S-10 a 400hp s-10 aint bad, but you can get a crate motor with around 150-200more hp for the same price as a ls2. With that crate motor having racing internals you could throw a 300 shot on it and make 450-500more hp than a ls2 for around the same price, although you would need alot more work to drivetrain but i highly doubt a stock s-10 drivetrain can handle 400hp to begin with. There will be nothing stock about the drive train and who said bang for the buck? I want 400+ hp at the wheels There is a ton of info out there and this is a very common swap. Also why buy a crate motor if you can build one cheaper? Search on rao's name about his M3. I spent a few hours under the hood of that toy and learned a lot I installed the stage 8 bolts :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 guy in my office had an ls2 in his s10. best bang for your buck swap if you have and S10 with a v6 and manual. its pretty much just a swap Ahh this guy, and i do build my own engines so i know how to get the most hp for the money, i have around 12grand invested into my supra including the car for 3500 and it made 517rwhp on 93 octane. 12 grand includes, car, suspension, slightly build 5 speed, engine and turbo setup, i have a IRS rear end with 3.73s and a live axle for the drag track with 4.10s. Also my ls1 made 350rwhp with just bolt ons, if you are only goin for 400rwhp an ls1 can do that wit ha simple cam swap and with intake manifold heads and cam swap you can make over 450rwhp. The ls2s are great motors but they have had some problems with oil consumption, however most people solve that problem when they build the engines, make sure you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnAWD Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Touched a nerve, did we? Bullsh*t on this statement....what are we looking at here? Practicality LGT> M3.....stock track performance LGT<M3.........Can you really be practical with the M3? no you cant, you have to own another car next to it. There is not as much interior space, trunk space or the capability of driving it in the winter. THEN you have BMW service costs....tuning costs you out the ASS. My turboback 1100 dollars and my used to be friends turboback was like 5 grand with installation. Parts are so much more expensive for it and unless you turbo it or super it....you are not going to get above 420 crank. To get to that stage you need to sell your house, your soul, and your grandchildren for it.....Oh yeah and the daily ride quality of the M3 is worse, and the clearance is worse..... oh yeah i see a pattern, bmw owners are pricks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Anyway; to the OP there is a good group in the Chicagoland area; let us know if you have any questions. Avoid Subaru of Schaumburg AT ALL COST!!!1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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