SBT Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Again, drive a 3.6 H6 (on regular petrol) and you'll quickly see that there is absolutely no comparison between it and the 3.0 H6 (on premium). The 3.6 pulls like a freight train and revs uber smoothly all the way to red line. Coupled to the uprated 5EAT, it's a very nice setup. I only imagine that it would be even better with a 6MT. Fit this to both a Legacy sedan and wagon, in 3.6R garb, and you've got a hit out of the box. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandman Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 I agree.. unless the H6 was cranking out 270lb-ft of torque and was coupled to a 5/6MT, you'd still rule out many performance buyers by not offering the 2.5 turbo. I really liked the H6 in my last Outback, but it didn't have enough power, esp with the 4EAT. It did pull very smooth to redline, in contrast the 2.5t feels like it is going to disintegrate. Both engines have their place in the Legacy range, but not one or the otherThe H6 you drove, along with being coupled to a 4 spd, weighed more and had at least 20 fewer hp. So like most of the people here, you've not driven one back to back with a 2.5T 5EAT. I guess the more pertinent question is why Subaru was willing to put the 3.6 in the Tribeca to increase unit sales by 600 units a month, when making a SpecB 3.6 wagon with 6mt would do a lot better than that! You can buy a 3.6L VW wagon with AWD, but not a Subaru. Who Dares Wins スバル Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigT Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Just look at the Australian Liberty range... 3 versions of the 2.5i, all available as either wagon or sedan 2 versions of the 3.0.. Premium and Spec B, both avalable as wagon or sedan Then there's the GT and the GT Spec B, again, both available as a wagon or sedan. http://www.subaru.com.au/models/liberty/ I hate SOA/SCI http://www.subaru.com.au/models/liberty/2.5gt_spec.b/wagon/pricing/ <---- avail transmissions Don't forget that Subaru Australia has one main importer. One man controls most of the Subarus in Aus. So basically what he says goes. Once SOJ sells them to him, they are his problem. Also, I'll point it out one more time RS -> GT WRX -> Spec B Sti -> LSti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieDriver Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I agree, there is plenty of power to be had from the 3.6l H6 and it would compete quite nicely with the likes ot the Acura TL and whatever else is in that class. However, it doesn't cater to the tuners. Now I suppose that's why there is the WRX, but Subaru buyers are a unique bunch.. We want a dose of luxury with our tuner car. Also, in Canada at least, a 3.6l Passat wagon with heated seats will run you $50k There's plenty of power in the 3.6 as it is right now. I drove an '07 and '08 Tribeca back-to-back, and the difference is *very* noticeable. The 3.0 has to be thrashed to get usable power, while the 3.6 has right-now power. It's got the powerband of the 2.5 turbo without the turbo lag. If they turbocharge that 3.6, it'll be a beast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 There's plenty of power in the 3.6 as it is right now. I drove an '07 and '08 Tribeca back-to-back, and the difference is *very* noticeable. The 3.0 has to be thrashed to get usable power, while the 3.6 has right-now power. It's got the powerband of the 2.5 turbo without the turbo lag. If they turbocharge that 3.6, it'll be a beast! My sentiments (on all points) exactly! SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 When you like a car and/or company, and see their sales go below 200K and have a sense their best days are behind them, can see folks bitching and moaning about it. Lol. that's the dumbest thing i've read in awhile. Subaru hit 200k for the first time in its history in 2006. The only reason it happened was because SOA applied incentives out the wazoo and fleeted a jillion cars to make it happen. SOA was not profitable in 2006. SOA pulled back on incentives and fleet in 2007. Yes they sold less cars... but guess what.... they turned a profit. I think Subaru would have been digging its own grave to try to continue the sales pace of 2006. Selling at a loss to hit a number is not exactly good business. Subaru has just begun to enter its better days. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Maybe Toyota is trying to get rid of Subaru. darn bishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigT Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 I'm seriously wondering what goes on at SOA board meetings... Probably nothing besides them getting their orders from SOJ. SOA is basically un understaffed bunch of bitche$, they have absolutely no say in anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neurodancer Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Lol. that's the dumbest thing i've read in awhile. Subaru hit 200k for the first time in its history in 2006. The only reason it happened was because SOA applied incentives out the wazoo and fleeted a jillion cars to make it happen. SOA was not profitable in 2006. SOA pulled back on incentives and fleet in 2007. Yes they sold less cars... but guess what.... they turned a profit. I think Subaru would have been digging its own grave to try to continue the sales pace of 2006. Selling at a loss to hit a number is not exactly good business. Subaru has just begun to enter its better days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandman Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 // However, it doesn't cater to the tuners. Now I suppose that's why there is the WRX, but Subaru buyers are a unique bunch.. We want a dose of luxury with our tuner car. ///I don't think that's really true. I'm looking a WRX for an autocross/time trial car because there is so much more support, and competition. If you take every person on this website that has modified their LGT, it's still a small number. The only reason there is much of any support is largely due to the WRX/STi. I'll just have to live with the stupid hoodscoop...... Who Dares Wins スバル Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soopah Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 New US review of 2008 Legacy 3.0R sedan: http://cars.about.com/od/subaru/gr/08_legacy_30R.htm Guide Review - 2008 Subaru Legacy 3.0 R Limited test drive The Subaru Legacy has always been one of my favorite mid-sizers, but it's been slipping a bit. In 2005, I gave it five stars. In 2007, I awarded it four. And now it's down to three. Part of the problem is that Toyota, Nissan, Chevrolet and Honda have all introduced excellent new mid-size sedans. But the bigger issue is that Subaru keeps giving me nicer and nicer Legacys to test. In 2005 I drove the base-model Legacy 2.5i, which is still a great deal ($21,500k nicely equipped with all-wheel-drive). In 2007, I tested the turbocharged Legacy GT. Lots of fun but a bit thirsty. This time I tried the new top-of-the-line 3.0 R Limited, which adds a 245 hp six-cylinder engine to a car that really didn't need more power. 2008 sees the addition of a much-needed tilt-and-telescope steering column and a much-appreciated optional navigation system. But they've tweaked things that didn't need tweaking, like exterior styling and wood trim. And the things that did need tweaking -- the lack of auto-down windows, front seats that need more thigh support, and a dual-zone climate control system that won't let you set the temperature on both sides of the car at once -- have been left to annoy a new generation of Legacy drivers. And there's a new annoyance: The steering-wheel paddles, which allow manual shifting of the 3.0R's 5-speed automatic transmission, are actually fixed to the column, so you can't reach them when the wheel is turned. Oops. One thing I can't complain about is the handling. With standard all-wheel-drive and electronic stability control, the Legacy's grip on the road is truly awe-inspiring. But the six-cylinder engine simply isn't as thrilling as the turbocharged GT and Spec.B models, and it uses even more fuel. All in all, I don't think the 3.0R justifies its $32k asking price. I still love the Legacy -- just not this Legacy. -- Aaron Gold I agree with this reviewer, the aircon in my Legacy GT is a PITA, just can't stand the dual zone temperature controls that cannot be operated singly. Is there anyone doing fixes for these things through add-on electronics? Same goes for auto-up windows. In my old MINI I bought an after-market circuit to give me auto-up windows. Yes, there is a safety concern if the windows do not have an obstacle detection circuit, but if I could have auto-up just for the driver's window that would be enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigT Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I somehow doubt that SOJ wants SOA to do what they are doing... Why would they want all other countries that sells Subaru products to be successful but not America and Canada? It's not their intention to screw it up, but they have no idea what they are doing. North America is the toughest auto market in the world there is more competition than anywhere else. They have no idea what is going on over here. Everyone on the board is born and bred Japanese, and they have no American perspective. They just recently put a westerner in a position of power. They don't want it to happen, but they are just way out of their league. They are an engineering company that tries to do some marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigT Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 New US review of 2008 Legacy 3.0R sedan: http://cars.about.com/od/subaru/gr/08_legacy_30R.htm I agree with this reviewer, the aircon in my Legacy GT is a PITA, just can't stand the dual zone temperature controls that cannot be operated singly. Is there anyone doing fixes for these things through add-on electronics? Same goes for auto-up windows. In my old MINI I bought an after-market circuit to give me auto-up windows. Yes, there is a safety concern if the windows do not have an obstacle detection circuit, but if I could have auto-up just for the driver's window that would be enough for me. Search and you shall find. There is a solution for auto up/down windows. As for climate control, there is a sticky on how it works. It may be helpful to use it more efficiently, but I'm not aware of any other solutions to turn the dual zone into a one zone climate system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieDriver Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I don't think he wants a one-zone system. What many want is what I've seen in the newer Honda Accord. When you turn the car on, the driver's side temp control changes both zones until the passenger control is touched, then the link is broken and they operate individually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iyalla Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 But they've tweaked things that didn't need tweaking...And the things that did need tweaking...have been left to annoy a new generation of Legacy drivers Pretty much sums up Subaru with the Legacy doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Pretty much sums up Subaru with the Legacy doesn't it? - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 One thing I can't complain about is the handling. With standard all-wheel-drive and electronic stability control, the Legacy's grip on the road is truly awe-inspiring. But the six-cylinder engine simply isn't as thrilling as the turbocharged GT and Spec.B models, and it uses even more fuel. All in all, I don't think the 3.0R justifies its $32k asking price. I still love the Legacy -- just not this Legacy. -- Aaron Gold See, it isn't just me. I am not as big a crackpot as even I was beginning to suspect. I agree with pretty much every word of that review, except that I am much more enthusiastic about the Legacy GT that he seemed to be, and I don't mind my Legacy GT's thirst for fuel. I fill it up about once a week, or a bit sooner with some weekend mileage. I can't think of a more fun car to drive every day in the depths of winter, for the price tag, that would be more fuel efficient. There are more fun cars, but they aren't as "awe-inspiring" in the grip department in the CRAP weather we have been having for the last few months. The Legacy doesn't even shrug at bad roads, other than the suspension seeming to hit pot holes kind of hard. There are less expensive cars, but not nearly as fun and fast. There are more fuel efficient cars, but again, not as fun, not as fast, and not as capable, all at the same time. The 3.0R may be "more powerful" than the bone-stock 2.5 GT, but a computer tune fixes that, and the GT is much more "thrilling" with turbocharged torque, and that force-fed rush. The H6 doesn't do that, and without a turbocharger, I doubt it ever will. It is smoother than that, for better or for worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 ^ Of course it's not "more powerful". 2.5GT is clearly underrated from the factory, and I doubt the 3.0R is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 The 3.0R may be "more powerful" than the bone-stock 2.5 GT, but a computer tune fixes that, and the GT is much more "thrilling" with turbocharged torque, and that force-fed rush. The H6 doesn't do that, and without a turbocharger, I doubt it ever will. It is smoother than that, for better or for worse. I think the 3.0 is horribly bog-underpowered for the displacement, until you get it unto its cams at high RPM - where it sounds like it's coming apart at the seams - not very Subaru-like. My 98 2.5 LGTs have more off-the line grunt that the 3.0 and will match it up to about 120 mph - and they run on regular fuel where the 3.0 requires premium. The 3.6 on the other hand is a torque beast, accelerates very quickly and runs on regular and has a wonderful growl throughout the rpm range. I think this would be an ideal engine to couple to the 6MT or even the 5EAT v2 in a touring legacy (sedan or wagon). Just keep the 2.5T for the GT/SpecB. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 My 98 2.5 LGTs have more off-the line grunt that the 3.0 Im glad that at least one person here understands this. The power in first gear is pretty tremendous, at least in the MT. My 4EAT LGT didn't have quite the same off the line go go go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 And first gear gets you to what? 30mph? About the same as it gets me in my 2.5T. - Just not quite as quickly, but way quicker than the 3.0L. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 I realize that, but then the 3.0 walks away from it in the rest of the gears We sure a high-performance enthusiast bunch.. "which car will get to 30 the quickest?" Like I mentioned previously, at least I think it was in this thread, I've driven both and the 5MT 2.5 NA LGT (Gen 2 DOHC) will hold its own against a 3.0 up to about 110-120. After that, the 3.0 may still have some top end left but the 2.5 will be exhausted....literally... lol. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdoggydog Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 About the same as it gets me in my 2.5T. - Just not quite as quickly, but way quicker than the 3.0L. SBT I love how you guys all think the 3.0R is slow. I'd love to take on a stock 2.5GT or Shrek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soopah Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Really? The 3.0R has faster 1/4 mile than the LGT? I find that hard to believe. I also don't find myself exceeding 120 mph too often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 When I did the Subaru ride and drive event, the Outback 3.0r was only about a carlength behind the XT in a drag race... Are you comparing a Legacy 2.5i to the 3.0 in the Tribeca or the Outback 3.0r? Comparing a 2nd Gen LGT 2.5 NA DOHC to the 3.0 Outback or 3.0R. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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