rc0032 Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Are you kidding me? That is seriously grasping at straws to try and defend your position. They hit peak torque basically at the same time and the car with the headers started it's run sampling several hundred RPM's later. For the doubter, IIRC the headers car made it's run after a cool down period with the motor off, so the headers were basically cooled off. If they had been hot (right after a full power run) they might have out spooled the stock manifolds. I don't personally think they help spool, but I do know that they don't hurt. Are we looking at the same thing They make less power down low and peak later. So now its the headers weren't warm...do they come with an electric blanket for night time? So to be clear...you post a dyno plot of 2 cars that are the same but 1 had your headers, the polt sys 1 thing you argue another and then say its because they were cold. WHY DID YOU POST THAT PLOT THEN? I will give you this..you are a great salesman and people buy your product Im done so don't reply, I know more about this car than I need to and trying to learn or educate people here is pointless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x312/kagenmateer/catfight.jpg :lol::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattg Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I know more about this car than I need to and trying to learn or educate people here is pointless your work here is done. have you thought of retirement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Nah, I like his input. Don't leave RC!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Are we looking at the same thing They make less power down low and peak later. So now its the headers weren't warm...do they come with an electric blanket for night time? So to be clear...you post a dyno plot of 2 cars that are the same but 1 had your headers, the polt sys 1 thing you argue another and then say its because they were cold. WHY DID YOU POST THAT PLOT THEN? I will give you this..you are a great salesman and people buy your product Im done so don't reply, I know more about this car than I need to and trying to learn or educate people here is pointless Sorry, I'm going to reply, because obviously you don't know as much as you believe you do. You must not have seen many dyno charts, because if you had, you would noticed that the car with the headers began its' run nearly 500 rpm later. Usually we try to go WOT and start sampling the run at 2K rpm, but sometimes you don't nail it right on. Obviously the car at WOT will make more power than the car that isn't running! Then the car with the headers sees it torque ramp up at a faster rate and hit peak torque at basically the same point. Cold headers do spool slower than hot headers. I've seen it time and again on the dyno. However, in this case the car with the cold headers spooled as fast as a car with stock manifolds. Is it such a stretch of logic to think that hot headers might out-spool the stock manifolds? BTW, the information I post has nothing to do with sales. This thread was started asking if headers offered a palpable enough improvement in power to justify their tradeoffs. I presented a graph of two ostensibly identical cars with the only difference being headers to support my opinion. Others here have offered nothing but their opinion. If I has dyno runs from two LGT's otherwise identical but with another brand of headers I would have gladly presented them. BTW, there is no inconsistency in my posts. In the other thread about the VF40-18g and the TD06-18g both cars have the same headers. I mearly suggested that the TD06-18g car was cold when the displayed graph was generated and the that VF40-18g car has hot headers. That difference could have easily exaggerated the difference in spool. Here, I'm only telling everyone that a particular set of headers, even when cold spool as fast as stock manifolds. They might have spooled faster if hot, but I do not have data to support that hypothesis, so I won't say that. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 The funny thing is I have a contrarian streak in me a lot like RC, but I recognize the time and place for it.... ie: not all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x312/kagenmateer/catfight.jpg :lol::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x312/kagenmateer/catfight.jpg :lol::lol: I'm the hotter one...not sure which one that would be, but that's me. RC is old and crotchety! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I think the hotter one is always the one that wins and doesn't cry afterward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedracerx Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Had coated AND wrapped Borla header on the WRX for almost two years...loved the sound (sounded like a big block V8) on my custom made 3" dia/dual 3" outlet, very loud exhaust system (112 db at SAE test, 95 db at idle). The wrapping (velocity jackets + HD aluminum foil) really helped the spool. When I sold the header, the velocity jackets were almost disintegrated, and the header looked discolored but solid. On the LGT, I went with a used coated GPMoto EL header. Sound is, well, EL...Honda on steroids, a little raspy at high RPM. On a stage 2 OTS 91 oct map, butt dyno says there is power. With an AVO intake, AFR is around 11.5-11.8 at 3rd gear WOT. I placed aluminum and heat barrier cloth on the plastic undertray to mitigate the heat...still warped the pan a little by the OF door, but no melted parts. This weekend is turbo install day, so I'm adding wrap to the the header/UP, finally hooking up the EGT gauge and adding a turbo blanket...trying to maintain heat and spool. If the header lasts a couple more years while working like I want it to, I'm fine with that! I'll be stripping the parts when I sell the car anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I know more about this car than I need to and trying to learn or educate people here is pointless Good bye. FWIW, I think he is just jealous. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Headers work, but people need to realize their are trade offs, not just in power vs. RPM, but longevity, cost, getting stupid and wrapping them, ect, ect, ect. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I gather you should only wrap what is necessary if any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I gather you should only wrap what is necessary if any. Don't wrap it. If your worried about retaining heat and increasing exhaust gas velocity then coat the thing inside and out (not just outside, that's no different then wrapping). OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Headers work, but people need to realize their are trade offs, not just in power vs. RPM, but longevity, cost, getting stupid and wrapping them, ect, ect, ect. No they don't; there is NO downside, people just need to install headers because not installing them is stupid same thing with 55 lb and larger turbos Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Nah, just put an LS motor in it and call it a day. BTW, I've just about got a buddy convinced to do an LS1 swap into his newly purchased clapped out S13. Should be a fun car. Told him that if he does it, then I'll put a 5.0 with junkyard twin turbos in my XR4Ti and we can go fast whoopty racing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meier motor sports Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 but with headers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 LS1 in an S13?! That goes beyond drifting. You'd drift fifth gear! Your XR4Ti would be the worst sleeper to go up against at the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puckman Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 so i know coating and wrapping are bad. However if you coat both the inside and outside of the headers, will that still give them the tendency to crack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 so i know coating and wrapping are bad. However if you coat both the inside and outside of the headers, will that still give them the tendency to crack? Less tendency if the coating remains intact, but it's still possible if they heat up enough. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 so i know coating and wrapping are bad. However if you coat both the inside and outside of the headers, will that still give them the tendency to crack? I think so. Mine are ceramic coated (the double coating that is good to 2400F) and have been fine for about 2 years. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 To the anti-header camp: SOJ must be retarded to put them stock on JDM LGT...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 To the anti-header camp: SOJ must be retarded to put them stock on JDM LGT...... Yup. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 You loose the boxer rumble but the perceived noise level of equal length headers are less. The pressure waves are more spread out have a higher frequency but have less amplitude with equal length headers which= less percieved noise. A positive or negative side effect depending on who you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 boxer rumble ftw!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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