2009 Subaru Legacy rumor thread

[Viber]

entry luxury??? not so much. Lincoln MKX and MKS are trying to be. Lexus ES and IS250 are. Volvo maybe. Saab maybe. G35 and CTS are. Avalon and Maxima very well could be, too.

 

2.5i is nowhere near entry-luxury segment. The GT is more sport sedan than luxury sedan. .

 

 

The 2.5i is not in the entry-luxury segment. Correct, but the LGT is, as well as being a sports sedan. Car writers seem to agree, as you never see the LGT lumped in with the likes of the Accord, Camry, Altima or Malibu.

 

It its typically put in the same class as the TSX, S40, A4 and Passat. One has to wonder why the TSX and not the Accord, considering a fully kitted Accord is priced close to a loaded TSX with Navi. One is entry Luxury, and one is more bread and butter.

 

Pull up most auto comparison tools that auto populate competitors. The LGT is never put into a class that is short of entry luxury.

 

From an auto industry standpoint it’s hard to refute what the LGT's real segment and competition is. Though if you insist that the LGT is just a sport sedan, consider the sport sedan segment is dominated by entry level luxury cars as well. Technically the Altima is a Sport sedan, as is the Mazda6. How often do you see them compared to BMW 3 and Audi A4. Almost never. It isn't all about AWD either, because the TSX is FWD only

[IwannaSportSedan]

the thing is, Legacy GT doesn't have the amenities of even the accord and camry, let alone the S40, TSX, and A4, or G35.

 

It is also priced a bit lower than the latter group. It is more akin to the Altima 3.5, and the Mazda 6 V6 and Mazdaspeed. Other than the Mazdaspeed, you don't really see the Legacy GT being compared to ANYTHING in the auto press.

 

The Legacy is in such a press blackout that people who know about cars barely know that the Legacy still exists.

 

The one place that Legacy GT shines, is at being very fast. It is faster than almost all the cars listed up there, besides maybe the newest G35. The fact that it is AWD is almost not considered as a comparison, because few of it's competitors have it as a standard feature.

 

The Legacy is a somewhat unique piece. and doesn't squarely fit firmly in either category, but it definitely doesn't have the "toys" of entry lux.

 

And part of entry lux is for younger professionals to impress their boss and co-workers by their new raise, by driving a new, nicer car.

 

That doesn't work with Legacy quite as well, because no one recognizes it, and usually can't even tell it's a Subaru. Usually it isn't mistaken for cheap, which is good, though.

[DukeTrout]

the thing is, Legacy GT doesn't have the amenities of even the accord and camry, let alone the S40, TSX, and A4, or G35.

 

It is also priced a bit lower than the latter group. It is more akin to the Altima 3.5, and the Mazda 6 V6 and Mazdaspeed. Other than the Mazdaspeed, you don't really see the Legacy GT being compared to ANYTHING in the auto press.

 

The Legacy is in such a press blackout that people who know about cars barely know that the Legacy still exists.

 

The one place that Legacy GT shines, is at being very fast. It is faster than almost all the cars listed up there, besides maybe the newest G35. The fact that it is AWD is almost not considered as a comparison, because few of it's competitors have it as a standard feature.

 

The Legacy is a somewhat unique piece. and doesn't squarely fit firmly in either category, but it definitely doesn't have the "toys" of entry lux.

 

And part of entry lux is for younger professionals to impress their boss and co-workers by their new raise, by driving a new, nicer car.

 

That doesn't work with Legacy quite as well, because no one recognizes it, and usually can't even tell it's a Subaru. Usually it isn't mistaken for cheap, which is good, though.

 

I just installed the iPod integration kit for the 08 Impreza in the spec.B. At this point, it's not missing very many useful features. Bluetooth can be added without much fuss.

 

What's interesting about your last statement is that when my boss took a ride in my car, he was impressed by how nice it is, and that's coming from a BMW/Mercedes guy. When he found out it is a Subaru, he was incredulous. When he found out how much I paid for it, he classified it as "smart." That's a much better impression that just being another tool in a 3 series.

[psi365]

Direct injection more powerful engine in the area of 275 HP - welcomed. I don't see why they don't go to top-line twin-turbo H6s, with so many other manufacturers doing so, like Ford, and BMW... and CAFE might push others that direction instead of V8s...

 

.

This is a section from an Audi vodcast about FSI. I'm sure if I bothered to I could dig up more info for you guys if I wanted to.

 

In contrast to conventional intake manifold injection on conventional spark-ignition engines, FSI® Direct Injection engines inject fuel directly into the combustion chambers, dispensing with the throttle plate. That "unthrottles" the engine, reduces heat loss and thus increases output while reducing fuel consumption.

 

The system uses two charge-air supply modes: stratified charge at partial load and homogeneous operation at full load. In the stratified charge mode, an combustible fuel-air mixture is only produced in a defined zone around the spark plug. The engine management electronics monitor engine load and adjust injection timing, pressure, quantity parameters as well as the air flow inside the cylinder via the air intake channel. At full load, FSI® Direct Injection increases compression as well as engine efficiency and performance.

 

 

 

http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/Experience/technology/technology_-_crops.Par.0009.Image.jpg

[IwannaSportSedan]

I just installed the iPod integration kit for the 08 Impreza in the spec.B. At this point, it's not missing very many useful features. Bluetooth can be added without much fuss.

 

What's interesting about your last statement is that when my boss took a ride in my car, he was impressed by how nice it is, and that's coming from a BMW/Mercedes guy. When he found out it is a Subaru, he was incredulous. When he found out how much I paid for it, he classified it as "smart." That's a much better impression that just being another tool in a 3 series.

 

Most people buying "entry lux" want to advertise the fact, though. Usually with a badge. Easier to point to a three-point star, roundel, or L, shield, or a lincoln spear.

 

just easier that way.

 

But I agree with your story. I love my Legacy for what it has, at the price I purchased it for. I don't think I could have found a better value. But I bought it for me. My boss couldn't care less, and I hardly ever see him, and I have no co-workers, aside from a part time student assistant. I only have a turbocharger to befriend me on the way to and from work.

[highlander]

The Imprezza sedan is NOT competing with the 3 series. It is competing maybe with a Mazda 3. Nobody is ever going to think to themselves "Hmm.. BMW 3 series or an Impreza today?"

 

 

 

 

I think it depends on the perspective buyer. If one wants a powerful sporty 4 seat sedan then I think the STI is competing against the 3-series, and marginally against the M3.

 

The prestige of the BMW in the marketplace is the only reason the two are not often compared. If you read the Mag. Tests, the BMW is always compared against Audi, Volvo, Infinit, Mercedes, Saab.....

Then if you read the STI tests, they always talk about how it out performs the BMW in most categories other than luxuries.

 

Base models aside since obviously a base Imprezza isn't in league with a base 3-series.

[LegGTLT]

What's interesting about your last statement is that when my boss took a ride in my car, he was impressed by how nice it is, and that's coming from a BMW/Mercedes guy. When he found out it is a Subaru, he was incredulous. When he found out how much I paid for it, he classified it as "smart." That's a much better impression that just being another tool in a 3 series.

I JUST has this experience the other day. My boss flew in and I picked him up from the airport. We started talking about cars and the price diff between US and CA (which is a whole nother thread in it's own ) cars. He wants a $50k Toyota Sequoia but it costs $70k in CA. I said how I love sedans but if I had to go to a bigger vehicle it would be a wagon, probably a Subaru wagon. He asked what the car I was driving now was (he had no idea ) and was shocked that the MSRP was $30k, let alone I got it for $4k less, AND that it was a Subaru. He said, "This is a really NICE car for that price. It looks good."

 

So main line luxary maybe not, but entry level it does impress.

[oddseth]

I JUST has this experience the other day. My boss flew in and I picked him up from the airport. We started talking about cars and the price diff between US and CA (which is a whole nother thread in it's own ) cars. He wants a $50k Toyota Sequoia but it costs $70k in CA. I said how I love sedans but if I had to go to a bigger vehicle it would be a wagon, probably a Subaru wagon. He asked what the car I was driving now was (he had no idea ) and was shocked that the MSRP was $30k, let alone I got it for $4k less, AND that it was a Subaru. He said, "This is a really NICE car for that price. It looks good."

 

So main line luxary maybe not, but entry level it does impress.

 

 

10-4 on that one. I used to work for a general contractor and I stopped by one of my jobs to drop off some drawings. A carpenter met me outside and said, "Hey, sweet car - what is it? Is it an Audi or a BMW?" I laughed and told him a subaru and he responded with something about WRX's.

 

Also, when I was at an open track day at Summit Point, I was rounding the first turn and my instructor mentioned that my car leaned more on the turns than the others (of the same car) he had been in today. I told him that I hadn't seen any other subarus at the track that day, to which he replied, "oh, this is a Subaru?"

[Viber]

 

So main line luxary maybe not, but entry level it does impress.

 

For a car that isnt Entry Luxury it sure keeps good company.

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/8550/2004-acura-tsx-v-2004-audi-a4-v-2004-subaru-legacy-v-2004-volvo-s40.html

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=1589&print_page=y

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=3280

[BigInALegacy]

The Acura and the Volvo beat the LGT in one of those articles!

 

But it basically killed them all in this one! Listen to the video review on the Legacy too.. that's impressive! :D

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=3280&page_number=7

 

Edit: the article is pretty good too. If you look at the raw data the LGT is the only one that measures up to 120mph!

[LegGTLT]

For a car that isnt Entry Luxury it sure keeps good company.

I just said entry level. Read the quote you quoted! NOT main line luxury, as in it doesn't have all the little bells and whistles and high end interior that main line luxury vehicles do.

[Viber]

I just said entry level. Read the quote you quoted! NOT main line luxury, as in it doesn't have all the little bells and whistles and high end interior that main line luxury vehicles do.

 

 

I wasnt disagreeing. It was more a jab at those that swear the LGT isnt an entry lux effort. If it wasnt it wouldnt be thrown into the mix with Acura, Infiniti, Audi, BMW and Lexus on a regular basis. I dont see a Sonata ever put against those brands, or an Evo

 

If your LGT doesnt feel like an entry lux car. Odds are you skimpped to get payments down (nothing wrong with that), or you dont think you need leather, navi, or XM because it makes your car too heavy to win Main street stoplight dragstrips against 1999 civics.

[LegGTLT]

Odds are you skimpped to get payments down (nothing wrong with that), or you dont think you need leather, navi, or XM because it makes your car too heavy to win Main street stoplight dragstrips against 1999 civics.

Pwn those civics!!!

 

I hear ya buddy. I was just confused as why you quoted and than stated what you did.

[Whitestar Pilot]

I'll tell you what I'd like to see in '09.

 

Two things. 1st, a horsepower increase. In '05 the Legacy GT was the hottest gig in town for an affordable performance sedan. To keep it that way, they're going to have to bump it up.

 

Doing something as simple as giving it the STI engine components, and rating it at 290 horsepower would be enough to make me happy.

 

2nd, I'd like to see a 5-door Legacy GT, kind of like what is offered with the Mazda6. I bought a Mazda6 for my wife, and we absolutely love the 5-door hatch, because it is extremely helpful with loading/unloading large items like a baby stroller, and other family-oriented needs.

 

 

 

http://us.autos1.yimg.com/img.autos.yahoo.com/ag/mazda_mazda6_s5doortouring_2007_other_7_346x270.jpg

 

 

 

 

I'm not a fan of SUV's, so the 5-door Mazda6 is a great way to retain the agility and style of a car, but with the flexibility of an SUV as far as cargo loading is concerned.

 

It would be even better though if it were an AWD turbo Legacy!!

 

--

[LegGTLT]

True. I think the HP bump is quite honestly the most economical idea for upgrades for SOA. I mean, they are already producing that engine, detune it a bit and now you have the same engine from the STI being used in a larger run of cars. Not a huge economy of scale benefit, but a start.

[dtmenace]

True. I think the HP bump is quite honestly the most economical idea for upgrades for SOA. I mean, they are already producing that engine, detune it a bit and now you have the same engine from the STI being used in a larger run of cars. Not a huge economy of scale benefit, but a start.

why they don't do this in the first place???? shared components would bring down their overall production cost while increasing volume and they would only likely detune from the ecu ... go figure, SOA FTL

[LegGTLT]

Who knows!?!?!?!?

 

I thought it made sense awhile back when people started asking for an HP bump. I know the engines we have and the components are not exactly the same as the STI, but using some of the same ones would make sense to get that little bump and not intrude on the STI "aura" too much.

[SubieDriver]

Too bad they didn't follow through on the rumor of 320hp for the STI. Then they could have easily bumped the Legacy GT to 300hp without impinging on the Impreza's territory.

 

Actually, it really doesn't matter how much hp the Legacy gets, there won't be much overlap, since the Imp STI is aimed at a much different market. The Legacy isn't really a track car (though that is easily done). It's more of a grand touring car, something that the Impreza is not.

 

I would guess that most people who want a Legacy STI don't have any interest in an Impreza STI. That's definitely the case for me.

[GraysonSubaru]

our rep was talking about it today. she said it going to be "camry sized" and it will move further apart from the Outback having shared body panels. the Outback is supposed to be a huge change, but will be on the same wheel base as the legacy.

 

She said SOA is trying to separate the Legacy and the Outback more for 09.

[LegGTLT]

More power.... please?

[RobE]

270hp would be nice...but i dont want anything bigger than the current Legacy.

[BigInALegacy]

All I can say is I'm glad I got my 08 before they change it!

[IwannaSportSedan]

I'll tell you what I'd like to see in '09.

 

Two things. 1st, a horsepower increase. In '05 the Legacy GT was the hottest gig in town for an affordable performance sedan. To keep it that way, they're going to have to bump it up.

 

Doing something as simple as giving it the STI engine components, and rating it at 290 horsepower would be enough to make me happy.

 

2nd, I'd like to see a 5-door Legacy GT, kind of like what is offered with the Mazda6. I bought a Mazda6 for my wife, and we absolutely love the 5-door hatch, because it is extremely helpful with loading/unloading large items like a baby stroller, and other family-oriented needs.

 

 

 

http://us.autos1.yimg.com/img.autos.yahoo.com/ag/mazda_mazda6_s5doortouring_2007_other_7_346x270.jpg

 

 

 

 

I'm not a fan of SUV's, so the 5-door Mazda6 is a great way to retain the agility and style of a car, but with the flexibility of an SUV as far as cargo loading is concerned.

 

It would be even better though if it were an AWD turbo Legacy!!

 

--

 

I am completely on that page with you, brother.

 

A 5-door sedan, with Legacy good looks (like mazda's good looks) Subaru's superior AWD, boxer turbo engine and ~300hp give or take... with a manual transmission.

 

I completely on board with that. The only thing better would be a three door version of a GT coupe with the same specs, and a bit sexier lines. Kind of a cross between the SVX and a bit of the 93-97 Probe GT (also a mazda hatchback, in reality. just badged as a Ford.) and the Legacy's style, chassis with new design features.

[Viber]

 

also a mazda hatchback, in reality. just badged as a Ford.

 

Umm. No

 

The Mazda 6 was engineered completely by Mazda and predates any other CD3 platform automobiles.

 

Ford owns 33.4% of Mazda. The only thing Mazda rebadges from Ford is the Tribute. Ford and other brands Ford have a stake in borrow heavily from Mazda Motor Corporation but rarely the other way around.

 

Notice what came first

 

2003–present Mazda 6

2006–present Ford Fusion (CD338)

2006–present Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ (CD378)

2006–present Mercury Milan (CD338)

2007 Mazda CX-9 crossover SUV

2007 Ford Edge crossover SUV (U338)

2007 Lincoln MKX crossover SUV

 

It would be like calling Subaru cars rebadged toyotas, or a GM a couple of years ago

[IwannaSportSedan]

I don't think you understood me. I wasn't talking about the brand at large. I was talking about the Probe in particular.

 

The 93-97 Ford Probe GT was a Mazda in fact. A re-bodied hatch-back variant of the MX6 of the same vintage. It was not a ford design, even less of a ford design than the previous versions. Merely, and barely styled by ford. The chassis, drivetrain, and most hardware was mazda. I owned and worked on a 93 for several years.

 

It is a mazda hatchback, as the Mazda 6 5-door sedan is also a mazda hatchback. Both front wheel drive, both I4 or V6, and available with manual transmissions. Several parallels there.