Carter Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Who here has an auto with the issue?? Having spoken with the regional manager, he states that there is an update for 5 speeds and spec.b's but the 5EAT has no update available. I have an 08 gt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfdal Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 This has really soured me on the idea of the auto w/turbo. Due to the amount of time I spend in b-to-b traffic, the manual's just not an option. Granted not everyone has the issues, and some are content to live with it, but it would drive me screaming to a lemon law complaint. Its almost a given that with my crappy luck, I'd be one of the one's with the problem. Its just unacceptable given the state of technology that this issue is still an issue for so many this many years along. I'm beginning to understand my dealer's refusal to stock any Legacy GT's, or Outback XT's. He doesn't even want to order them. Heck, he doesn't even want to ** talk ** about them. My best option is beginning to look like an 08 FXT and hope they haven't screwed that up as well. The only problem with that is the feature content for the price stinks. Oh well, I got by living in the NE for 30+ years of driving w/o AWD, maybe time to switch brands. Soooooo disappointing. For those of you still fighting the good fight to get Subaru to fix it, my compliments. BTW - For those that can remember him, Jack Welch aka Neutron Jack, former CEO of GE mentioned (and I paraphrase) that it doesn't matter if 99% of your product works, the 1% that doesn't is going to ruin your brand loyalty. And Subaru is not big enough to sour people on their brand. Sorry for heading off-topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_rex Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 The stutter isn't that big of a deal. It's a quirk that you learn to avoid with your driving style, and imo, you shouldn't be so low in the RPMs on this 2.5L anyway. All stick cars have a "personality" and this is no exception. On a more cynical note, why the hell do people floor it with so low rpms anyway? Rev match, downshift, then go. you'll be in boost, and she won't stutter as the turbo spools up. I don't even notice it anymore because my style has changed such that it's no longer there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_rex Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 Such a waste of bandwidth this thread. Stutter. Half this website is about stutter. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartg Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 It's hard to say whether or not I would recommend this car to someone else. As dark_rex says you can avoid it, and for daily driving it is primarily a non-issue since you would usually shift at or before 3k rpms. Where the stutter becomes a problem is when you need to make a sudden acceleration to avoid an accident, or when you are making a pass. The 5-speed and 6-speed are both fine for commuting in rush hour traffic my commute is no worse transmission wise whether I am in my 6mt spec.b or my 4at impreza. There is so much that I love about the car, and since the stutter is not there for normal driving it's a non-issue for a casual driver and for most people daily commute driving style. For the people buying it because they thought it was a powerful economic sports sedan with a nice touch of luxury, I would tell them to look elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfdal Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 So let me see if I get this straight...... Autos tend to drop down to the lowest RPM to keep it in gear. At least the one's I've driven tend to do that. So if I have an auto, and that's what I'd have, and I manually downshift to kick the RPMS up before I hit the gas, the stutter is minimized / gone? In other words be at or near boost before I nail it? Seems like the need for a sudden hit w/o the time to "precondition" things could get one killed. Usually the only time I hit the gas is when I need to, or if I'm the only car on the road. None of this sounds like rocket science to fix, esp since its so easy to replicate for those that have it. Seems more like Subaru just doesn't seem to care enough to do a thorough job to fix it. Even more puzzling since they've built a big part of their reputation on turbo performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractorcrusher Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 All, I just took my '07 Legacy GT Spec B in due ot the "stutter" problem (which is actually a boost surge). I've owned the car almost two months now, and have yet to have an issue come up that Subaru didn't fix. I've talked to various people at Subaru over the past few weeks about it casually, and they just said "well bring it in and we'll make sure your ECU is up to date." Well, they reflashed today with an update, and my surge is completely gone. I now have consistant power without any hesitation. I've tested both S and S# mode and still no surge. Alas, where would I be without proof... Here's a snip of the service order- http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n41/tractorcrusher/ecureflash.jpg All work was done at Subaru of Plano. Please feel free to ask me any questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02BlkRex Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 The stutter isn't that big of a deal. It's a quirk that you learn to avoid with your driving style, and imo, you shouldn't be so low in the RPMs on this 2.5L anyway. All stick cars have a "personality" and this is no exception. On a more cynical note, why the hell do people floor it with so low rpms anyway? Rev match, downshift, then go. you'll be in boost, and she won't stutter as the turbo spools up. I don't even notice it anymore because my style has changed such that it's no longer there. Mine stutters under full throttle even if I'm already in high rpm range so the "range" you are in has nothing to do with it. I do however agree that you can deal with it by adjusting your driving style. I may not have it as bad as others because for me it is mildly annoying and not much else. There is no way I would let the stutter problem deter me from buying an LGT again. There is just so much other good stuff about this car that I can live with a little stutter. It also looks like engine management fixes the issue. I know that we shouldn't have to spend more money and SOA should fix it, but it is obvious they aren't so just buy an AP and get on with your lives. My $700 is waiting for the AP to be released for the '07's now. It will fix the car and give you an extra kick in the pants as well. Do it. Now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal2You Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 Guys, this is not a defect. It is a safety feature. If you're accelerating too fast the ECU cuts the gas for your safety. Same is true if too much gas is being burned and therefore you are creating too much pollution. You didn't expect your turbo powered car to let you actually use the turbo, did you? Thankfully Subaru puts the concerns of California's emissions testing before the desires of it's customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 Guys, this is not a defect. It is a safety feature. If you're accelerating too fast the ECU cuts the gas for your safety. Same is true if too much gas is being burned and therefore you are creating too much pollution. You didn't expect your turbo powered car to let you actually use the turbo, did you? Thankfully Subaru puts the concerns of California's emissions testing before the desires of it's customers. I call BS. If it was a safety thing, let the stability program deal with it. If I want smooth uninterupted power, I should have it. The issue is fixed with new programing (thus it is a defect) for 07 and 08 spec.b's but not for LGT's with an auto tranny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 The stutter isn't that big of a deal. It's a quirk that you learn to avoid with your driving style, and imo, you shouldn't be so low in the RPMs on this 2.5L anyway. All stick cars have a "personality" and this is no exception. On a more cynical note, why the hell do people floor it with so low rpms anyway? Rev match, downshift, then go. you'll be in boost, and she won't stutter as the turbo spools up. I don't even notice it anymore because my style has changed such that it's no longer there. The auto transmission is always trying to stay in the lowest possilbe RPM... so tell me again how I'm supposed to keep those RPMs up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractorcrusher Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 Guys, this is not a defect. It is a safety feature. If you're accelerating too fast the ECU cuts the gas for your safety. Same is true if too much gas is being burned and therefore you are creating too much pollution. Are you being sarcastic? Like I said, I just had my ECU reflashed and hit full stock boost pressure without any surge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrx2blackGT Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 I just had my 2008 5sp reflashed with the update. Don thave time to drive until later tonight..... ill post what I think. My service dept knew nothing about it and has had no complaints at all, but when we scanned the car it pulled up the update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTATURBO Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 My service dept knew nothing about it and has had no complaints at all, but when we scanned the car it pulled up the update. that's because at least 60% of the owners are retarded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal2You Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 Sorry to get you guys worked up. Yes, I was being sarcastic! I experienced some stutter with my '06 GT until I reflashed with Cobb's AP and I know how frustrating it is. I suspect it is mostly bad ECU programming because they're trying to keep the emissions as low as possible, and robbing us all of the performance we paid for in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetErDun Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 I took my to the dealership fo the hesitation mine gets and they said they could find nothing wrong. Then I got my car car back and I could tell they had reflashed it! iijuutss! I am just waiting for the AP to come out for 07+ models, whenever that may be? Infamous Tuned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slim Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 I haven't noticed a stutter since changing to Shell or Texaco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacks GT Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 We spoke to lee subaru about this before we bought our car. The mechanics had a look at it and came the the conclusion that it is an addaptive gearbox(manual) that is trying to geuss when you change gear and the more you drive it should slowly fade i expect its just marketing BS but i thought id just put it out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02BlkRex Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 We spoke to lee subaru about this before we bought our car. The mechanics had a look at it and came the the conclusion that it is an addaptive gearbox(manual) that is trying to geuss when you change gear and the more you drive it should slowly fade i expect its just marketing BS but i thought id just put it out there. BS. It gets worse the longer you drive. I can reset my ECU and it be smooth for a few miles until it comes back with a fury! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paycer Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 All, I just took my '07 Legacy GT Spec B in due ot the "stutter" problem (which is actually a boost surge). I've owned the car almost two months now, and have yet to have an issue come up that Subaru didn't fix. I've talked to various people at Subaru over the past few weeks about it casually, and they just said "well bring it in and we'll make sure your ECU is up to date." Well, they reflashed today with an update, and my surge is completely gone. I now have consistant power without any hesitation. I've tested both S and S# mode and still no surge. Alas, where would I be without proof... Here's a snip of the service order- http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n41/tractorcrusher/ecureflash.jpg All work was done at Subaru of Plano. Please feel free to ask me any questions. Right on tractorcrusher! Thanks for posting up what the dealer gave you. On your paperwork is there anything that describes what the reference # of the flash was? An example of one for the 08 GT looks like this -->226UAM96B If you can find out that information then we'll only need to get an 08 GTsB and an 07 GT to have all the one's in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractorcrusher Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Right on tractorcrusher! Thanks for posting up what the dealer gave you. On your paperwork is there anything that describes what the reference # of the flash was? An example of one for the 08 GT looks like this -->226UAM96B If you can find out that information then we'll only need to get an 08 GTsB and an 07 GT to have all the one's in question. I don't see any number in that format... Here's the full scan (with personal information removed). http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n41/tractorcrusher/092607work.jpg The second page was just charges for the oil change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paycer Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 I don't see any number in that format... Thanks for taking the time to post that up! It's kind of a bummer that they don't document (at least on the customer paperwork) which flash they put on your car. Having those numbers would serve the LGT community in two ways: 1. People could reference the appropriate number to prod the clueless dealers to look deeper into the reflash. 2. Find out if SOA is treating the 07, 08 and GT and GTsB cars differently. I think I'll email that abyss that is SOA customer service in Jersey and see if they can give us this info. Thanks for trying though and good news about the flash eliminating the stutter gremlins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02BlkRex Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 It would be interesting to see what else the flash changes... Does it decrease power or responsiveness in order to eliminate the stutter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 its not just GT's and spec.b's though...its also manuals and automatics. There is no flash for automatic transmissions.... Off topic, I wish Subaru stuck with that slogan, "Driven by whats inside" I liked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbaker55 Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 The stutter isn't that big of a deal. It's a quirk that you learn to avoid with your driving style, and imo, you shouldn't be so low in the RPMs on this 2.5L anyway. All stick cars have a "personality" and this is no exception. On a more cynical note, why the hell do people floor it with so low rpms anyway? Rev match, downshift, then go. you'll be in boost, and she won't stutter as the turbo spools up. I don't even notice it anymore because my style has changed such that it's no longer there. For those that really have this problem, there is no driving around it. Mine stutters from 2500 to 4000 rpm, light throttle, medium, or WOT. Plus, it falls on its face almost every shift, before getting the message and actually accelerating. It is a big deal. See post #31 for more detail. On the plus side, my dealer called to ask me to bring the car in for a second round of data logging - at the request of SOA. It seems that regularly bugging both the dealer and the folks at SOA (and getting a case #) has some effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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