axis008 Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Awesome pictures, Myles! The lowered stance is aggressive, yet subtle. The BBS wheels will nicely compliment your car. Post lots of pictures! :) -ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nendo Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 so the drop is 15mm front and back??i wish it was a lil more, neverless im very impressed with your review ,, u r twisting my rubber mod arm right now holding a creditcard.... i want a drop bad but i dont want to sacrifice much ride quality, the hos in my car wouldnt like it.hah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 so... I guess all we need to know now is how much these babies are gonna flex my credit card.... Shipped... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nendo Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 ohh damnit my rubber mod arm has won and will be ordering these springs from ya..........................................i lasted close to 3 hours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 One of these days your just gonna hafta learn to just give up... the rubber mod arm is just too strong... its too powerful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 So you don't think switching to 18's instead of 17's will make much of a difference to ride quality? That's really my only concern about probably getting another set of 17" wheels. And the fact that 17" wheels are lighter than 18". -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='RobY']so... I guess all we need to know now is how much these babies are gonna flex my credit card.... Shipped...[/QUOTE] you have mail,.....you too NENDO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='Th3Franz']So you don't think switching to 18's instead of 17's will make much of a difference to ride quality? That's really my only concern about probably getting another set of 17" wheels. And the fact that 17" wheels are lighter than 18".[/QUOTE] most people when going up a size, try to find a lite weight wheel, so they dont pickup any extra weight,.or just come within a pound or 2......afyer all its not like we have HOnda's with 112 torque but have 390hp.........:lol: :lol: 944 turbo guy My BBS REs weigh like 16.9 lbs...stock was 16.5......but the stock tires on the STi are like 8lbs heavier or something like that. cheers- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTCanada Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Hi Myles. I just PM'd you. Thanks, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='GTCanada']Hi Myles. I just PM'd you. Thanks, Tom[/QUOTE] you have Pm back........... 944tg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTCanada Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Got it...thanks Myles. I notice on your website that you identify sedan and wagon springs separately. Is that just for internal order tracking or do the STi sedan and wagon springs have different Subaru part numbers? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='GTCanada']Got it...thanks Myles. I notice on your website that you identify sedan and wagon springs separately. Is that just for internal order tracking or do the STi sedan and wagon springs have different Subaru part numbers? Tom[/QUOTE] There is a sedan and wagon version. Stock, the wagon has stiffer rear springs than the sedan. The STi springs must take that into account. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='nendo'] i want a drop bad but i dont want to sacrifice much ride quality, the hos in my car wouldnt like it.hah[/QUOTE] Heh, the "whores" dont even know I have Zeals on the car anyways, they think it feels stock. Besides, they're whores, just show them the back of your hand once in a while if that's the kind of women are you picking up :p Keefe Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='Th3Franz']So you don't think switching to 18's instead of 17's will make much of a difference to ride quality? That's really my only concern about probably getting another set of 17" wheels. And the fact that 17" wheels are lighter than 18".[/QUOTE] From my experience, and if you choose your tire sizes right, the 17" doesnt give you the feedback from the road to let you know what the pavement is like vs. the 18" would. It's just more pronounced on your steering wheel than overall ride difference. I am not just talking about vibrations or that sort of feel, but the notion of when the tires do break loose or about too (I do notice that a lot through the autox's when I run 18" vs 17"). Keefe Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 I don't think anyone asked the question as to if the factory bump stops need to be cut down an inch or so? Also, how much are the springs and what is the typically sag after the car settles?? OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 No, you do not need to cut the bumpstops. Keefe Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnSub Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Considering five pages of response in 36 hours, looks like I am not the only one that thinks this may be the most exciting report to date, for this site. Thanks very much Myles & Xenonk. Sounds like float and lean or body roll are noticeably reduced without sacrificing GT ride quality. I am one of those that wanted benefit of better springs with minimal drop and 15mm is great. I think LegGT has almost an inch more clearance than std Legacy (5.5 vs 6.5). Regardless, drop will be minimal. My BMW3 dropped a bit more with Eibachs, but did better with nasty driveways/sharp dips because of less dive, more firm. Based on your report, I only see benefit of taking a very good car and giving it that extra surgical feel, with no negatives. I will put my new 18/7.5 wheels on week of car delivery. May wate a few weeks to feel out car with stock springs and then put on PINKS. I will enjoy them that much more after a few weeks of stock. Maybe I will only weight as long as it takes to ship the springs to my house. Whether I do sway bars depends on comfort trade-off and how much I like my new (first) Suby. If I love the Suby and benefit of sways are significant, without any real negative I will do sways in a heartbeat. This could beg the question, who needs a Leg GT/Sti version for street driving? I guess if Suby added all this plus 25-40 more HP with even better quality seats, upscale materials and creature features, I would jump for it about 48k miles into my Leg GT/Ltd, but it would need to be a real quality upgrade. For my taste, I think the suspension upgrade and tire upgrade is going to give me all the car I want for my daily driver and ski strip shuttle. Great news and thanks very much again for your effort Myles/Xenonk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='MtnSub'] 1) Based on your report, I only see benefit of taking a very good car and giving it that extra surgical feel, with no negatives. 2) Whether I do sway bars depends on comfort trade-off and how much I like my new (first) Suby. 3) This could beg the question, who needs a Leg GT/Sti version for street driving? 4) I guess if Suby added all this plus 25-40 more HP with even better quality seats, upscale materials and creature features, I would jump for it about 48k miles into my Leg GT/Ltd, but it would need to be a real quality upgrade. [/QUOTE] Just to give you some of my opinions on your notes here: 1) Compare to a full coilover setup of what I have, the STi Legacy Pink Springs is a small and subtle upgrade.. imagine if the dealership did installed a set of springs on the test-drive car, painted them black, would you notice the difference? This mod is not going to be really out of the ordinary where it would deter you to say "what the heck? why is the car soo stiff like the STi or Evo??" during the test drive. 2) The sways bars are like "magic" on a straight road, you wont feel them in action until you get on the car through a turn.. these are one of those mods that doesnt ruin the ride quality at all for daily driving (especially when most of us just drive STRAIGHT and the shortest distance possible to work. The other day, I counted the number of turns going from my house to work in a 19 mile one-way stretch.. I got up to 47 turns that have apexs that are worth hitting every morning.. at 19 miles and 47 turns, that not enough to feel the joy of what swaybars really have to offer... but when you do feel them at the harder turns, it's down-right fun! 3) Some of us crazy power hungry guys wouldn't mind the extra power and torque (especially when you have a car-full of people going on a road trip.. or for your case, a weekend ski trip?) A piggyback chip would definitely cure this problem and I am looking into talking to TurboXS to get the UTEC tuned for this car to have a proper stage 1.. just a matter of time. 4) It's going to be hard to upgrade the seats since everyone is shaped differently.. try asking a 250 lbs @ 6'-3" with 44" waist to fit into a Sparco Corsa Seat (waist is like 28" on that particular seat). It's not going to happen. Some features would be nice like GPS, a Double Din headunit, more power, better tires, and a place to put some coins, I say the car would be more than good enough. BUT.. there is nothing wrong of buying the car at the price as it is now, and mod it to your own liking. My thought on this is: If the STi S401 was $43,000 USD at the time of sale (400 made) and I bought my GT-LM for $27,000.. with a $16k difference, can I mod my car with $6k to make it suite not only my needs and taste, but have a reputable setup that can match the S401's performance and luxury? It's a challenge. It all boils down to what kind of car you want at the END: A) stock S401 and pay $43k or B) buy a $27k GT-Limited, and have the flexibility to add $16k worth of mods to custom-fit your needs. I opted for "B" on my WRX, and I will do the same for the GT. Keefe Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 try asking a 250 lbs @ 6'-3" with 44" waist to fit into a Sparco Corsa Seat (waist is like 28" on that particular seat). It's not going to happen. Are you calling me FATTTTTT?????????:lol: HEy I am a 40 waist..and I still fit in to my Recaro SPG,...its tight though..........LOL... just kidding I see your point and agree with you KEEFE.. 944 turbo guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnSub Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Regarding your comments Xenonk, First, I always say "for my wants/taste etc, and I am part of the non-track, non-tuner crowd that is closer to Subaru's mass market. I completely agree that doing your own thing is the way for you and many in your group. You guys push the limits, pioneer for all of us. About seats, I am not talking Sparcos race seats. I am looking for BMW M3 seat design/quality level or S4, or VolvoR type seats. Again, non-track orientation. Regarding PINK springs, being minor, again it depends on your wants. I think the PINKS will give me what I am looking for. A moderate, compliant improvement of an already great car, but I will keep my mind open on sway bars. I just think that for me and the vast majority of mainstream Leg GT buyers, the PINK springs will add that added edge we are looking for. Regarding $43k for a Leg GT/Sti, I will be shocke if Suby takes that path. I bet that Suby will shoot for a $35k-$37k price range for their first uber-GT. So, everything you said is correct for your following. I also think there is a large market segment that will get all the fun factor they need from modest changes, tires, short shifter, springs, maybe sway bars. Again, thanks for your very interesting work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 On my note on the seats, I was just giving an example of what Subaru had to look at when it comes from a design standpoint: Typical Americans are fairly larger in dimensions (in terms of ergonomics) compare to Japanese people.. so they'll have to come up with a wider seating arrangements... as for your comment on the M3-stylish seats, well, Germans are pretty tall and larger people than Japanese people.. so there's a slight difference there. I do notice that the GT does have some pretty stiff bolsters on the seats.. if you want the seat to hold you in, a [url]www.cg-lock.com[/url] might be a good solution to keep you planted in the seat. I think there will be plenty of in-between parts for the stuff you are looking for out of your car. Not that I am saying that you have to go all out like what I am doing, but at least I know that even the super-high-performance-limit stuff is definitely something that doesnt take away from the car's overall status of what Subaru's selling image of the car. Dont let the decals on my car fool you.. I am sure if you drove my car, you would go "wow, this IS a very daily-driver-able car." The great thing is that there's all this stuff for the car, and these parts are not just fixed for race-only use. Just imagine what a little bit more of engine management you can do for your GT. Still civilized, with another 50 whp ready for your disposal. I think it's going to be an easy to find something in between when the stuff that I am doing is really up there as far as performance and overall daily driving comfort. Trust me, I am not going to put a roll cage in my car just to prove a point that the car is a very good contender in Speed Channel GT Racing. :lol: Keefe Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 I'd be fairly concerned about putting new spring rates with the same dampers.. It could cause a lot of badness in the right conditions. They are engineered as a pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Wow - CG-Lock looks like the answer to my worry about buying the Limited model.....sliding around on the leather on back roads. The cool thing about the Legacy is that there is so much OEM performance stuff available, not to mention aftermarket gear engineered to that standard (Prodrive, etc). After owning four different Hondas with aftermarket suspensions (H&R, Neuspeed Koni, Tokico, Eibach, Suspension Techniques, etc) I look forward to getting the handling performance I am looking for without the aftermarket springs and all their drawbacks (sag and rough ride after 6-12 months). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='Deer Killer']I'd be fairly concerned about putting new spring rates with the same dampers.. It could cause a lot of badness in the right conditions. They are engineered as a pair.[/QUOTE] It's not the stiffer spring rates that kill the the shocks, it's the shortening of the suspension travel that kills it.. not to mention cut bumpstops to allow further suspension travel. Those elements of "lowering springs" is what I hate the most (usually wears out the stock shocks fast). Shocks are valved based on the rates of compression and rebound and suspension travel. If the shock is expecting X amounts of force while the X spring rate is suppose to AID the shock from being compressed, then the shock will expect to have a particular rate of suspension travel. BUT if you changed the suspension travel, the spring rate has to be able to be that much stiffer to aid the stock shock from being in full bind or worse yet, disrupt the maximum fluid flow from one chamber to the next via valves. This is how valves get busted up, overflow of the suspension fluid from "lowering springs" that did not match up to the shock's needs for spring rate aid vs suspension travel. For the STi springs, since they dont lower the car that dramatically, and having a spring rate that seem fairly well matched for the USDM shocks, I'd say they wont kill the stock shocks as fast or as bad as a cheapo set of lowering springs that have a few more lbs of spring rate than the stock springs. The STi springs are also progressively wound, not linear like the stock springs.. so as the springs get compressed, they get an increased spring rate so that would help the stock shocks from blowing out the valves from hard cornering, especially those mid-turn bumps. Also, progressive wound springs are less "peaky" than linear springs when it comes to oscillations.. see a shock dyno chart sometime and you'll know what I mean. Keefe Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Further, STi designed those springs for that strut, since we apparently get the JDM GT (as opposed to GT-B (Bilstein)) dampers. And STi springs are OE-quality parts, that are designed to not only fit, but work like stock. That is, I don't expect that anyone running those pink STi springs is going to suffer from anything bad. It's why I wouldn't put anything else on my car. People have been running pink springs on WRXes for years, and everything is just fine. This isn't the case with other lowering springs. 15mm is hardly anything. I would imagine that drop simply comes from the progressive coils compressing a bit. Other lowering springs attempt looks and performance, which is why you get drops of an inch or more. It looks boss until the car starts bouncing. :lol: It's why STi stuff is more expensive. It is designed to work like an OE part. STi springs for the WRX are twice as expensive as other lowering springs, and don't give half the drop of those other springs, so people think that STi is out of their minds. Far from it, in my experience with STi parts. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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