RaceComp Engineering Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Well, the wife went to sleep around an hour ago,..and I took the 2005 Legacy Gt out for a subjective spin to give my opinion on the addition of the STi pink springs from Japan. I was the first to install the JDM pinks on a 2004 STi and wrote a long review of trhem on NASIOC and now I wanted to do the same for the 05 LEGACY. First my Legacy install specialist KEEFE , did a 80 minute install of the struts( granted he had already swapped them prior as to not take up the weekend time), thanks Keefe. The first thing youy notice is a muchimproved reaction to steering input, then as you build up speed, the float that ocurrs above 50mph when going thru dips, or rolling bumps is gone, and the car feels well supported. The small bumps in the road are not magnified, but they let you know, .."hey,..we are here,..FYI.." not like installing TEINS on a IS300,.where you loose the luxury,..but more like the Legacy gained a little hint of "M" from BMW, and retains the big car feel , yet quick and nibble. My initial feelings are that the changes are gonna be noticable to the enthusiast who wants less lean and still have comfort, yet when pushed, the car feels very much planted. Drawbacks,........I wish it had the BBS "RE" on it now,..instead of having to wait. I dont feel any drawbacks,..keep in mind, the springs are designed for the car. The stock struts dont feel overworked in the least. ITs NOT like when you lowered your 2002 WRX and after riding in it,.people ask where are the hydraulic buttons,...its more 540 BMW now, and has a BIlstein kinda feel, and this will only get better ,..with the addition of the Cusco sway bars in 1 weeks time............ Pictures will follow SUnday, as they are being hosted as we speak. I just wanted to ge the review out there. The wife an I will take some back roads tomorrow and I'll add my .02 cents worth then....It amazes me what a diffefence 15mm made...... 944 turbo guy [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Wifeys%20Legacy/ygpC29A.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Wifeys%20Legacy/ygpC29B.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Wifeys%20Legacy/ygpC29C.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Wifeys%20Legacy/ygpC29D.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Wifeys%20Legacy/ygpC29E.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Wifeys%20Legacy/ygpC29Fa.jpg[/IMG] [font=Arial][size=2][color=#0000ff][b]Myles Williams[/b] [/color][/size][/font][url="aoldb://mail/write/www.racecompengineering.com"][u][font=Arial][size=2][color=#0000ff][b]www.racecompengineering.com[/b][/color][/size][/font][/u][/url] [font=Arial][size=2][color=#0000ff][b]sales@racecompengineering.com[/b] [b]Racecomp Engineering LLC.[/b] [b]9123 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite 103w[/b] [b]Columbia, Maryland 21045[/b] [b]410-730-RACE[/b] [b]410-730-5503 FAX[/b] [b]410-707-0108 mobile.[/b][/color][/size][/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 I am convinced. Pinks, performance tires and sway bars transforms the car. I have a buddy with a non-sport '99 BMW 540 (but with 17" Breytons and Potenza S0-3s) I can use for reference. LOL....he is already chomping at the bit to drive my car and it hasn't even been delivered yet. Myles - It will be interesting the hear what impact an 18" wheel has on the 'comfort' rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted October 24, 2004 Author Share Posted October 24, 2004 I dont think the 18s will have any drawbacks,..as I'm thinking of a 245/35-18 which has a decent sidewall and fits with noooooooooo problem. As we found out with Keefe's car,..a 255 fits on an 8inch wheel with 51mm offset, with room to spare. And looks very normal,..except when you drive near construction zones where they are paving ,.the guy in the bright orange jacket is waving for you to roll over the fresh black top to mash it down :lol: 944 turbo guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 [quote name='RaceComp Engineering']. As we found out with Keefe's car,..a 255 fits on an 8inch wheel with 51mm offset, with room to spare. And looks very normal,..except when you drive near construction zones where they are paving ,.the guy in the bright orange jacket is waving for you to roll over the fresh black top to mash it down :lol: 944 turbo guy[/QUOTE] Or that the construction guy is giving you the bird cuz you just picked up all his new asphalt off the ground :lol: Next goal.. 18"x9" rims at 275/30/18 Keefe Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Myles, how about ride compliance? Obviously, one engaging attribute of the USDM GT is its silky ride quality, one that is, unfortunately, achieved by underspringing the car. Does this quality go away entirely? Is it still present to a certain degree? We know that ride quality on the USDM STi actually improved with the addition of the pink springs. What kind of effect did it have on the Legacy? Also, how much did they lower the car, and did you have occasion to drive a stock GT after driving yours with the STi springs, to compare/contrast? I notice your comment about the small bumps, but those are noticeable with the stock suspension setup, as well. And the big question is, if someone didn't know you had done a spring upgrade, and were a GT owner, would they know from riding in your car (as the handling improvements would be noticeable to the driver alone). Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsyGT Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 [quote name='gtguy']Myles, how about ride compliance? Obviously, one engaging attribute of the USDM GT is its silky ride quality, one that is, unfortunately, achieved by underspringing the car. Does this quality go away entirely? Is it still present to a certain degree? We know that ride quality on the USDM STi actually improved with the addition of the pink springs. What kind of effect did it have on the Legacy? Also, how much did they lower the car, and did you have occasion to drive a stock GT after driving yours with the STi springs, to compare/contrast? I notice your comment about the small bumps, but those are noticeable with the stock suspension setup, as well. And the big question is, if someone didn't know you had done a spring upgrade, and were a GT owner, would they know from riding in your car (as the handling improvements would be noticeable to the driver alone). Kevin[/QUOTE] I'd also be interested in what you and Keefe think about this setup vs the Zeal coilovers, comfort and performance wise. Does the car roll a lot less? Can you still clear speed bumps? (we got some big bumps and dips here in WA) Thanks tom tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted October 24, 2004 Author Share Posted October 24, 2004 [quote name='gtguy']Myles, how about ride compliance? Obviously, one engaging attribute of the USDM GT is its silky ride quality, one that is, unfortunately, achieved by underspringing the car. Does this quality go away entirely? Is it still present to a certain degree? We know that ride quality on the USDM STi actually improved with the addition of the pink springs. What kind of effect did it have on the Legacy? Also, how much did they lower the car, and did you have occasion to drive a stock GT after driving yours with the STi springs, to compare/contrast? I notice your comment about the small bumps, but those are noticeable with the stock suspension setup, as well. And the big question is, if someone didn't know you had done a spring upgrade, and were a GT owner, would they know from riding in your car (as the handling improvements would be noticeable to the driver alone). Kevin[/QUOTE] The ride quality of the GT has NOT been lost by a long shot !! And no, an outside, or even another Legacy owner might not notice the difference at first in normal driving, but high way driving 65-85 where you hit one of those dips thats slow rolling,....thats when that other person would turn to you and say,..." hey bud,...thanks for letting me know you ordered your pinks mannnnn,....." (Then you would have to say back),....."...what?..what did I do?....." (play it off at that point,.act surprised)......."..OH..THE PINKS,..yeah, I did those a while ago..........." "Nice upgrade......by the way..." (while you're laughing inside) You can feel that the car is lowered a tad bit,......but keep in mind that adding these to the Legacy isnt like adding pinks to the STI. The Legacy only needed to have subtle firming and remove some float. Where the STi needs to have the bouce and top heavy feeling removed so you can enjoy the inverted struts and stiffness that there, beeing mask by mis-matched USDM top heavy springs. And let's nip in the bud NOW,..all the questions about the comparo of the Zeals to the addition of the pinks. Adding pinks to the Legacy is like taking the girl next door, having her loose 15lbs, and wear makeup, and let her hair grow long. Adding "Zeals" to the Legacy is like the same thing, except,losing 30 lbs, some plastic surgery, and hanging out with a top model for a year,......... The Zeals take the Subaru to SEVERAL levels beyond what the OEM struts could ever do,..as the strut is the core. The pinks again, are an inexpensive upgrade that will satisfy most enthusiast,..after all most of us married the girl next door, even though we look at models all the time, after a while the girl next door (at least in our eyes) becomes our own super model. 944 turbo guy PS. Adding the Cusco sway bars will only make this combo better:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unilat Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 [quote name='RaceComp Engineering'] Drawbacks,........I wish it had the BBS "RE" on it now,..instead of having to wait. I dont feel any drawbacks,..keep in mind, the springs are designed for the car. The stock struts dont feel overworked in the least. [/QUOTE] You mention that the springs were designed for the car (JDM), but I'm assuming (I'm still learning here) that the Japanese market's struts are most likely valved differently to begin with. Is this true? Or did we get JDM struts with "Americanized" spring rates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Myles, Are you going to need an alignment now that you put the springs on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanoswrx Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Anytime you take off a suspension and put on a new one you should have an alignment done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTCanada Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 [QUOTE] but high way driving 65-85 where you hit one of those dips thats slow rolling [/QUOTE]That has been one aspect of the Leg suspension that has annoyed me for the past 13,000 kms. A little more body control and precision with a minimal drop...sounds like the ticket. I am waiting for your Sunday followup (that's today by the way :) ). My Paypal account is warmed up and ready to go :) . Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted October 24, 2004 Author Share Posted October 24, 2004 WOW,.the wife loves this car in the rain now, doesnt push as much and very forgiving. After there was a dry line this afternoon, had a chance to really fly into some corners and trail brake to the point that my STi would be flicked sideways,....not the LEG,...its planted, with amazing poise. When pushed very hard (granted we have -.9 camber right now and -.8 left and right side) there is a hair of understeer, which I attribute to the stock tires, but when I say push I mean to fast for the street, and more like turn 10 at Summit Point. I still feel that the swaybars will help this, and obviously better tires. I think its better for a long wheelbase car to push at the 98% mark than oversteer,...as the tail would come around like a 18 wheeler if not,......as in slooooowwwww motion.......so this push I speak of isnt like the STi push ,..its like,.the type of push you can get rid of by listening to your track instructor and brake-turn-gas. What I did was just go out and whale on it to see IF it would push, and it does very well. When lifting in a corner, esp a long sweeper, there is no upsetting this car,.and thats the long wheel base talking, combined with a lower center of gravity. I am already thinking about some 235/40-17 on the stock rims,.maybe even a set of the EVO stock tires:cool: ...along with the sway bars,.....hmmmmnnnnnn.... a UTEC,..and Suede wheel......ohhhh yeahhhhhh. 944 turbo guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted October 24, 2004 Author Share Posted October 24, 2004 [quote name='Boosted']Myles, Are you going to need an alignment now that you put the springs on?[/QUOTE] Alignment will be done tomorrow. That was a given. Today I put a camber gauge on it to see what it was like after we cranked the bolts out during the intall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted October 24, 2004 Author Share Posted October 24, 2004 [quote name='Unilat']You mention that the springs were designed for the car (JDM), but I'm assuming (I'm still learning here) that the Japanese market's struts are most likely valved differently to begin with. Is this true? Or did we get JDM struts with "Americanized" spring rates?[/QUOTE] We get the JDM 2.0 GT struts with big ole fat, whopper cheese american spring rates. ( I am talking about myself here, no flames please:lol: ) So yes we are very closely matched with this combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted October 24, 2004 Author Share Posted October 24, 2004 Still Will from NAsioc is my 2004 host hoe, so I am waiting on him for the pics.... 944tg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Did you measure rear camber before and after? The fact that we get the same dampers as the JDM 2.0 GT isn't that surprising, given the necessity for Subaru to keep parts the same as possible across the lines. Slapping on softer springs is easy, having different dampers from country to country complicates matters a bit. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 [quote name='RaceComp Engineering']We get the JDM 2.0 GT struts with big ole fat, whopper cheese american spring rates. ( I am talking about myself here, no flames please:lol: ) So yes we are very closely matched with this combo.[/QUOTE] MMM fat Whooper with cheese.... The STi Pinks sound good too... MUST RESIST THE URGE TO MOD!!! What modifications are needed to make these fit if any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='RobY']MMM fat Whooper with cheese.... The STi Pinks sound good too... MUST RESIST THE URGE TO MOD!!! What modifications are needed to make these fit if any?[/QUOTE] NO mods needed, its a direct bolt on, that makes you feel warm and fuzzy !! 944 turbo guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='RaceComp Engineering']NO mods needed, its a direct bolt on, that makes you feel warm and fuzzy !! 944 turbo guy[/QUOTE] How about the alignment? Can it be adjusted to spec with no additional equipment? P.S. Sorry if this is a stupid question, but my background with mods has been on Hondas where the camber kits you need to et the alignment correct end up costing you as much as the suspension pieces you added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='patagonianwrx']How about the alignment? Can it be adjusted to spec with no additional equipment? P.S. Sorry if this is a stupid question, but my background with mods has been on Hondas where the camber kits you need to et the alignment correct end up costing you as much as the suspension pieces you added[/QUOTE] It wont need anything to get factory alignment specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Wifeys%20Legacy/ygpC29A.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Wifeys%20Legacy/ygpC29B.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Wifeys%20Legacy/ygpC29C.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Wifeys%20Legacy/ygpC29D.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Wifeys%20Legacy/ygpC29E.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Wifeys%20Legacy/ygpC29Fa.jpg[/IMG] next pics will be with the 18x8 BBS "RE" with 50mm offset and 245/35-18s... 944 turbo guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanoswrx Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 The car looks great, glad to see they worked out so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerdave Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 The slight drop does look nice. But the pinks sound like just what the doctor ordered. I'll be curious to hear Keefe's impressions... and those of others that do this mod on stock shocks. Good stuff, thanks. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 [size=2]Thanks,.its getting there. This Christmas will be the only year,..my wifes gift wont come from Nordstrom or Tiffanies,..instead.........JAPAN !! She is hooked, and the thing is,..its here 3rd Subaru,....2.5 RS, 03 WRX now the LEGG. I love it....[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]944 turbo guy[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='patagonianwrx']How about the alignment? Can it be adjusted to spec with no additional equipment? P.S. Sorry if this is a stupid question, but my background with mods has been on Hondas where the camber kits you need to et the alignment correct end up costing you as much as the suspension pieces you added[/QUOTE] The imprezas and legacys use a MacPherson Struts setup which do not use a double wishbone suspension like majority of the hondas do. So camber alignments are much easier on the MacPherson struts. The Legacy already have camber bolts for the front. The rear multi-link suspension is fixed on the legacy, so you'll need some adjustable lateral links to adjust camber and toe (if you are that hardcore for a need of some really crazy requested specs).. which is only available for the imprezas for racing use.. as long as your car hasnt been bashed up in rear, it should stay flat and straight. Front ends are easy to align. Just as you didnt bang up the suspension, the alignments are usually straight and true. The camber bolts make it simple to adjust so there's no need for camber kits unless you are trying to achieve some rediculous amount of camber, caster and toe like me ( -2.8 degrees front for autocrossing, and yea, it's adjustable and way easier to adjust than hondas via camber pillowball mount plates). Keefe Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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