rjundi Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 How good of a clutch driver are you? I have a feeling a 5EAT would be a different story. My wife made it out of 9" of snow on RE92's with 5MT up a bit of incline WITHOUT smoking the clutch. I have smoked the clutch many a time, my wife never even on the steepest hills creeping in traffic. That being all said it say a lot about BMW's xDrive. I know a few happy owners/xDrive who run all-seasons and don't have much of an issue getting about with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VXCL Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 i've purposely taken my 5mt lgt into every snow storm over the last 2 years to have some fun. re92s work just fine. have never gotten stuck. closest i ever came was stupidly parking on snow that iced over on a hill. had to spin the wheels until they dug down into the ground. made a mess and tore up the grass on the side of my house. def have to do some 2nd gear starts especially now being stage 2. MAYHEM #122/22 STS NNJR SCCA AUTOX4U.COM XENON RETRO GUIDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 RSA's aren't the greatest tire, but I'd take them over RE92's anyday. Had them on my Grand Am, they were pretty good in the snow for being V-rated. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erito Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 This thread is a joke. 4 inches? I've got that much snow INSIDE my car I've advanced uphill through 30cm of snow no problem. But i run studded Nokian winter tyres... I blame it all on the driver and the tyres. Though newest xDrive is really good for beeing an open-diff solution with electronic traction control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boostspeed Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I have and 05 gt mt with half worn RE92's and for the last week, I have had to push out my friends 06 mazda 6 and their millinia (spelling ?). The drive is on a steap incline and the lgt was parked on the hill still no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmn69 Posted February 16, 2007 Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 Will post some pics tonight for you non-believers. There is about 4 inches of snow with 2-3 inches of sleet on top. Its NOT THE TIRES. I had new Blizzak LM-25's on the Legacy! Its not the driver, I was driving both cars! The BMW had the inferior tires. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1anatic Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Actually I got stuck with my GT last Tuesday as well. First off, I was unable to exit the parking spot on a side street, then I got stuck on another side street. in a straight line and/or around corners, I am impressed with Subaru AWD. The car never spun unless I wanted to. And you can bet I was spinning my rear on purpose. That being said, we had abpout 4-5 inches to the ground. When i rolled into my parking spot...I suppose forward motion, inertia and traction thru untouched snow helped me roll into my parking spot. Then about an hour later when i wanted to exit...NO WAY. I suppose the initially warmer than surroundings undercarriage may have melted superficially the snow then froze...bottom line...I had no traction coming out (Kumho Ecsta ASX) and not even after I dug out the snow from under the fronts and right rear tires all the way to the asphalt was I able to make it out. And scratched my left rear rim and banged it against the sidewalk plenty of times. Getting out required plenty of "rocking" and a scary sideways slide nearly missing a lighting pole. There was just too much snow under the car. Then I got stuck driving and stalled the engine in straight line on another side street. Probably in slightly deeper snow. Bottom line - the Subaru is a pretty light car and I was just "floating" above the snow...behind my car, the snow was flattened and I could see marks of the undercarriage shape. This reminds me of the train kit I had as a child. nice set of toy train, 12 mm tracks, German. One locomotive which was obviously the fastest, but lightest was NEVER able to pull any cars. it simply had so little mass that whenever I was attaching any weight behind it...it would be stationary and spin the tires. No wonder then that my father in a FWD minivan made it thru the same snow without problems. (And by the way...to this day and in the real life the way structural engineers test railway bridges is by hooking up 2-3 locomotives together and parking it over the bridge. Locomotives must be heavy in order to pull the "train") The GT is just too light, too low to the ground to have meaningful traction in the snow. Also a locking front differential would have ghelped. Maybe time for a Cusco upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjundi Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Will post some pics tonight for you non-believers. There is about 4 inches of snow with 2-3 inches of sleet on top. Its NOT THE TIRES. I had new Blizzak LM-25's on the Legacy! Its not the driver, I was driving both cars! The BMW had the inferior tires. John The interesting test here would be a VDC equipped Subaru vs xDrive. Technology helps in this case. The Subaru 5MT AWD is circa 1990 however so elegantly simply. Fluid shear only goes so far in traction application. LM-25's are not true winter tires. They are a step above good in the snow all-seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbastard Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Got another match up: Wifes 01 A4 no ESP with Bridgestone 960's and my LGT with RE92's. Both cars were backed into a spot and had to drive through a snow plow curl, snow was slightly above each cars bumper so there was a little plowing to be done. Both cars are also manual. The wifes A4 seemed more controllable, while there was some wheel spin the EDL seemed to help keep the car going and straight. With her car I pulled right out of the spot. In mine I had to pull forward and back up twice. I was able to pull out without too much of an issue and I am sure teh RE92's aren't as good as her tires but I also noticed more side slip in the leggy...again, partly tires. Even driving around the neighborhood, her car tends to pull straight up the hill, where you can feel teh LGT rear wiggle a little. Still way better tahn my old Integra with FWD though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Both my '06 5MT and my roommate's '92 5MT made it down our driveway which we affectionately named "The Gauntlet." This driveway is formed by the concrete structure of our house and our neighbors with about 2ft clearance on either side of a car. At the end of the driveway was a ramp about 2 feet tall made of dense slippery-wet snow. This driveway is not plowed and is covered in a good half-foot of packed snow/ice. Too much throtte = swinging the rear-end into one of the houses... Not enough throttle and you'll never have enough momentum to get over the ramp. It took a little clutch stink but I got the hang of it and I never for a moment felt stuck or like I was spinning a tire needlessly. Disclaimer: I am the man (and I have Dunlop M3's), do not try this at home! Edit: My landlord's Honda Pilot and Audi A4 can both tackle the gauntlet but you hear a lot more of the tire spin and see more of the "rocking" to get out. The Crimson Dynamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanoswrx Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I have been driving Subaru's for 5 years only on RE-92's. Never got stuck to the point I couldn't get out and get on my way without any assistance. I call driver error. My Subaru's (WRX and Legacy GT) have gotten me through anything from a foot of snow to 4" of ice (what we got just a few days ago, not fun). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul G. Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I also call driver error. I never got stuck, rarely get even minimal wheelspin in deep snow, not so deep snow and slush. My front bumper has been a plow many times. Ice can be a problem but never insurmountable. Easy on the gas and clutch, 2nd gear starts help. Always 5mt (all we drive), both turbo and NA, RE92s included (although I prefer Michelins). PS--I like BMWs too, just don't like paying for them (and their crazy maintenance costs). P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Yeah the subaru AWD that actually powers all the wheels If I am not mistaken only STI is capable of such a feat. GT and WRX have open front diff and lesser models have open rear and front. Krzys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Are you sure you were not high centered? Maybe BMW has more ground clearance? Krzys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmn69 Posted February 16, 2007 Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 I admit the possibility of driver error since the car/cluth is new to me only 2000 miles old. The auto trans and traction control is very forgiving on the BMW. A lot of smoke came from under the hood, and the inside of my car really stinks now. Did I f### my clutch really bad doing this? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillboy Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 This is ridiculous...I'm gonna sell my LGT and buy an H2. It is still ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawdaddy79 Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 A lot of smoke came from under the hood, and the inside of my car really stinks now. Did I f### my clutch really bad doing this? You probably took a few months of use off of it. If it still works without issue then you should be fine until the slip becomes noticable during normal driving (ie - when not pushing the clutch in). This is ridiculous...I'm gonna sell my LGT and buy an H2. I saw an H2 try futilely to get out of a parking spot yesterday morning. He actually had to get a shovel. I only saw two wheels spinning, so I'm pretty sure his 4wd wasn't working, or he was a dumbass that didn't know how to turn it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 RSA's couldn't get you out of a paper bag. Bald RSA's may work better on ice than Blizzies. I had a set of RSA's on my last car and they were decent in snow. What sizes were they, how much air press, how worn?? To many variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawGT Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Actually I got stuck with my GT last Tuesday as well. First off, I was unable to exit the parking spot on a side street, then I got stuck on another side street. in a straight line and/or around corners, I am impressed with Subaru AWD. The car never spun unless I wanted to. And you can bet I was spinning my rear on purpose. That being said, we had abpout 4-5 inches to the ground. When i rolled into my parking spot...I suppose forward motion, inertia and traction thru untouched snow helped me roll into my parking spot. Then about an hour later when i wanted to exit...NO WAY. I suppose the initially warmer than surroundings undercarriage may have melted superficially the snow then froze...bottom line...I had no traction coming out (Kumho Ecsta ASX) and not even after I dug out the snow from under the fronts and right rear tires all the way to the asphalt was I able to make it out. And scratched my left rear rim and banged it against the sidewalk plenty of times. Getting out required plenty of "rocking" and a scary sideways slide nearly missing a lighting pole. There was just too much snow under the car. Then I got stuck driving and stalled the engine in straight line on another side street. Probably in slightly deeper snow. Bottom line - the Subaru is a pretty light car and I was just "floating" above the snow...behind my car, the snow was flattened and I could see marks of the undercarriage shape. This reminds me of the train kit I had as a child. nice set of toy train, 12 mm tracks, German. One locomotive which was obviously the fastest, but lightest was NEVER able to pull any cars. it simply had so little mass that whenever I was attaching any weight behind it...it would be stationary and spin the tires. No wonder then that my father in a FWD minivan made it thru the same snow without problems. (And by the way...to this day and in the real life the way structural engineers test railway bridges is by hooking up 2-3 locomotives together and parking it over the bridge. Locomotives must be heavy in order to pull the "train") The GT is just too light, too low to the ground to have meaningful traction in the snow. Also a locking front differential would have ghelped. Maybe time for a Cusco upgrade. F1, I feel ya. Similar thing happened to me on tuesday and yesterday. My garage is off an alley, which of course, was unplowed and with at least 1.5 feet of snow (due to snow drifts). To get into my garage, I have to drive past the spot, and reverse into it at 90 degrees (like one would do with any parking spot at a mall). In a chicago alley, there is not much space. I got stuck when reversing and turning 90 degrees. The stupid car would not move forwards or backwards for what it seemed like a long time. The clutch was stinking like crap. I tried to avoid slipping the clutch, but the car would just stall out of nowhere even though I was reving at 1500 RPMS with clutch fully out. It stalled like 6 times. WHy I don't know, since the clutch was fully disengaged. I was pissed. What I HOPED would happen is for me to put it in reverse, slip the cluth a little at about 1300RPMs, fully disengage the clutch, and "spin" the tires at a low 1300-1500RPMS to let the AWD diffs do their thing and pull me into my spot. Instead, the car just kept stalling, and when it didn't, it slid all kinds of sideways and not straight back as needed to pull into the spot. Did I say I was pissed? Dissapointed too. It could be that I suck at driving stick (but I've been driving stick since I was 15 -- now I'm 28). Something tells me the automatic would do much better in those situations. Still pissed....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob N Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I admit the possibility of driver error since the car/cluth is new to me only 2000 miles old. The auto trans and traction control is very forgiving on the BMW. A lot of smoke came from under the hood, and the inside of my car really stinks now. Did I f### my clutch really bad doing this? John Manual tranny's require a much more delicate touch when it comes to these situations. It's very easy to produce a lot of spin in a situation like yours. The LGT has a touchy clutch and it's sometimes easy to fry the clutch if your not used to hit. I would say driver error had a lot to do with this. I've owned 6 Subaru's and used to live in New Hampshire and my Subie's have always been good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhiTauFord Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 it's the auto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Hate to say it, and I hated even more to believe it but this must be said. 2 cars, identical conditions, same driveway, same garage. LGT 5MT with Blizzak LM-25's could not make it out of the driveway, rocking back and forth. Smoking the clutch. Reving gently, reving hard. No difference. Could barely make it out of the driveway. Could not make it back up the driveway later. 325Xi with 3 year old bald Eagle RSA's 5 auto trans. Made it out of the drive with hardly a wheel spin. I couldn't believe it myself so I went back up the drive and again no problems. Hardly any spinning at all. For all you xdrive haters, this real world test is very revealing. The Xdrive and traction control kicked my LGT with Blizzaks butt, my heart is broken. I'm speechless, my wife is laughing at me. I don't get it...the LGT is still faster tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Outback Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I agree. An auto gives you way more control over how much torque gets to the wheels and how fast it's applied. It's easier with an auto to have a light touch. Plus did you have 16's or 17's on the BMW? A narrower 16"x7" wheel and tire goes through snow much easier then a 17"x7" wheel and tire combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwNavyLegacy Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 new 3 series are sexy, had to choose between a 328i last week or the Spec B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraysonSubaru Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 i didnt bother to read the 6 pages of posts, but has any one mentioned the huge price difference between the two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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