Vimy101 Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I agree. An auto gives you way more control over how much torque gets to the wheels and how fast it's applied. I completely disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I agree. An auto gives you way more control over how much torque gets to the wheels and how fast it's applied. It's easier with an auto to have a light touch. Total utter BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraysonSubaru Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 MSRP on the 328xi is $37700 ish with the auto trans. Not likely to get more than about a $700 discount on one - if any at all, especially the further south you go. LGT buyers are paying well under $30k for their cars. that is a big difference. I doubt you will see a BMW salesman comparing the 328xi with the LGT, but you will definitely have an LGT salesman mention the 328xi for price point and what you get for the money. most people looking at the 328xi are not cross shopping with the LGT. ..more likely cross shopping an Audi..or not even cross shopping. Many BMW buyers want a BMW and that is all they are considering. just trying to narrow down model and options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanboy Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 My car is ice bound at the moment, all this talk about stuck/spinning tires has me wanting to hit a frozen parking lots (plenty of them still around) for some fun. -B http://www.standardshift.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Outback Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Total utter BS. Why? I prefer manuals and I'm quite adept at driving them, but it's much easier to creep at 2mph in an auto then it is in a manual. In slippery conditions you can start in 2nd gear easier and you can ease into the gas and not have to worry that if your to slow you'll smoke your clutch. And you can apply the brakes to slow down wheel spin without worrying about stalling the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 You can start in 2nd with a manual, too. Never had to worry about smoking the clutch or stalling the car. I am not arguing that auto might be easier to some, certainly, I am completely disagreeing that at gives you better control as you claimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Outback Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 You can start in 2nd with a manual, too. Never had to worry about smoking the clutch or stalling the car. I am not arguing that auto might be easier some, certainly, I am completely disagreeing that at gives you better control as you claimed. Well it's a lot easier when you're stuck and spinning all four wheels to only have to use two pedals instead of three. Hence when I said, more control, that's the situation I was thinking about when I made that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 ^ +1 to Unclemat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul G. Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I posted before about never getting stuck or spinning wheels on my MT Subies, what I should have mentioned is that I have been driving cars/trucks/tractors/jeeps for almost 40 years. I'm sure that factors in. Now as far as auto vs. MT for slippery, slow careful stuff--Of course autos are better/more controllable in adverse conditions, that's why offroaders (including rally and rockclimbers) are all going to autos. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Hate to say it, and I hated even more to believe it but this must be said. 2 cars, identical conditions, same driveway, same garage. LGT 5MT with Blizzak LM-25's could not make it out of the driveway, rocking back and forth. Smoking the clutch. Reving gently, reving hard. No difference. Could barely make it out of the driveway. Could not make it back up the driveway later. 325Xi with 3 year old bald Eagle RSA's 5 auto trans. Made it out of the drive with hardly a wheel spin. I couldn't believe it myself so I went back up the drive and again no problems. Hardly any spinning at all. For all you xdrive haters, this real world test is very revealing. The Xdrive and traction control kicked my LGT with Blizzaks butt, my heart is broken. I'm speechless, my wife is laughing at me. Bold and underline is what you need to pay attention to here. This isn't a case of BMW X-drive or whatever versus Subaru AWD as even just about any 2WD vehicle with those tires should do better than the Bimmer. Something is rotten in Denmark. Your wife should be laughing at you ... cuz you done did somethin wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Outback Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I posted before about never getting stuck or spinning wheels on my MT Subies, what I should have mentioned is that I have been driving cars/trucks/tractors/jeeps for almost 40 years. I'm sure that factors in. Now as far as auto vs. MT for slippery, slow careful stuff--Of course autos are better/more controllable in adverse conditions, that's why offroaders (including rally and rockclimbers) are all going to autos. P. Even drag cars are going auto now because of greater consistency with shifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1anatic Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 ^ +1 to Unclemat Hey Unclemat, I hear the reason why Subaru dropped the GT wagon from production is cause they only have limited production capacity...and they wanna build more Spec Bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blklgt05 Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Bold and underline is what you need to pay attention to here. This isn't a case of BMW X-drive or whatever versus Subaru AWD as even just about any 2WD vehicle with those tires should do better than the Bimmer. Something is rotten in Denmark. Your wife should be laughing at you ... cuz you done did somethin wrong. i think its the driver or something is wrong, cuz i took my lgt up to crystal lake 3 weeks ago when theres snow up there......... IN MY SUMMER TIRES!!!(BFG g-Force sport, 0 snow traction) mod journal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edkwon Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 i think its the driver or something is wrong, cuz i took my lgt up to crystal lake 3 weeks ago when theres snow up there......... IN MY SUMMER TIRES!!!(BFG g-Force sport, 0 snow traction) Isnt crystal lake where the original Fri the 13th movie took place? Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawdaddy79 Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 How does driver error cause someone in an AWD vehicle to get stuck in the snow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamaxus Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I suck at the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Now as far as auto vs. MT for slippery, slow careful stuff--Of course autos are better/more controllable in adverse conditions, that's why offroaders (including rally and rockclimbers) are all going to autos. P. Ok, I admit it's not black and white. In typical on-road snow/ice situations I'd take MT over AT anyday. No question about it. You can upshift, you can rev match, you can heel and toe. In off-road situations when super slow crawling is needed, or climbing inclines with deep sand, etc - yeah auto is definitely easier. Had a 4x4 truck with MT and burnt clutch few times off road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jigelow Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Isnt crystal lake where the original Fri the 13th movie took place? Ed It's also (at least one) about 5 miles from where I live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawdaddy79 Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 if you have to ask the question then it tells me you don't know the proper use of gearbox/clutch when you're in heavy snow which means - you were probably doing it wrong. If doing it wrong is what continually got me out of my parking spot the last three days then I don't want to be right. My point was, that I do not understand why so many people are saying driver error. There's not much you can do. I can understand driver error coming into account when going up a hill or hitting mounds of varying size - but when pulling out of a driveway it seems a tad ridiculous to say so. The only thing that can be messed up is revving it up and popping the clutch, causing tire spin and turning the snow into ice. And I don't think anyone is stupid enough to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 This reminds me of the train kit I had as a child. nice set of toy train, 12 mm tracks, German. One locomotive which was obviously the fastest, but lightest was NEVER able to pull any cars. it simply had so little mass that whenever I was attaching any weight behind it...it would be stationary and spin the tires. No wonder then that my father in a FWD minivan made it thru the same snow without problems. (And by the way...to this day and in the real life the way structural engineers test railway bridges is by hooking up 2-3 locomotives together and parking it over the bridge. Locomotives must be heavy in order to pull the "train") The GT is just too light, too low to the ground to have meaningful traction in the snow. Also a locking front differential would have ghelped. Maybe time for a Cusco upgrade. Yes locomotives are very heavy, the newer EMD's and GE's we use for freight weigh in at a svelt 410,000-415,000 lbs, before taking on 4-5,000 gallons of diesel. In order to pull and control (dynamic braking) the trailing tonnage the locomotive must be very heavy. Also in order to put the power to the rail a great deal of sheer weight is needed, the engines make between 4,000 and 4,400hp and can put out a tractive effort of over 185,000lb-ft if traction is good. This can lead to complications though if too much power is on the head end, the locomotives will often rip the coupler knuckles in two on trailing cars. These are solid pieces of steel that are about 70lbs apiece, pretty impressive to see when one has been ripped in two, not fun at all to change out in the middle of the night in Wyoming when it's 20 below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red beast Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 the whole idea is to have apples to apples in the test. so to equal things out turn off the traction control in the bimmer and see if it will make it up the incline Why? If the car has a traction aid use it. AWD is a traction aid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamaxus Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 If doing it wrong is what continually got me out of my parking spot the last three days then I don't want to be right. My point was, that I do not understand why so many people are saying driver error. There's not much you can do. you may have been getting lucky? How were you doing it? lots of gas? steady gas? Driver error is just usually how it goes. Also it could have been a different situation with your BMW, snow is not of a uniform constance and that makes every situation different. So if you would care to explain your technique them maybe people would stop mentioning driver error. Maybe your wife got lucky? maybe it was momentum or a million other things. Your experiment is hardly conclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 the whole idea is to have apples to apples in the test. so to equal things out turn off the traction control in the bimmer and see if it will make it up the incline XDrive doesn't really work that way, in order for the AWD system to send any power to the front or distribute it from there, braking must be applied to slipping wheels since it is an open dif system. Turning off DSC and Trac render the car basicaly RWD. In other words the system is made specificaly to operate in conjuction with electronic management. It works well, and helps maintain the RWD handling BMW's are known for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toshiba2.5 Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 My 2.5i awd kicks ass in snow 5 to 6 inches of snow with stock yokos no prob never stuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red beast Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 then apples to apples it's worse. he should show that to his wife http://www.pearsonified.com/images/entries/bitch_slap.jpg XDrive doesn't really work that way, in order for the AWD system to send any power to the front or distribute it from there, braking must be applied to slipping wheels since it is an open dif system. Turning off DSC and Trac render the car basicaly RWD. In other words the system is made specificaly to operate in conjuction with electronic management. It works well, and helps maintain the RWD handling BMW's are known for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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