Penguin Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 then apples to apples it's worse. he should show that to his wife http://www.pearsonified.com/images/entries/bitch_slap.jpg To prove what point? That the BMW AWD system is designed to work with electronics in order to function, and the Subaru AWD system isn't? What in the hell does it matter? If the BMW system gets the job done better, than the Subaru does who cares if it is managed by electronics.? We're not exactly talking about two vehicles designed to slog through mud, or yank boats out of the water and up a ramp. If anything we should see this as a reason to be thankfull Subaru has finally decided to offer a stability and traction control programs to their cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red beast Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 didn't you read the first post? it's to reassert himself as "alpha dog" in the marriage!! To prove what point? That the BMW AWD system is designed to work with electronics in order to function, and the Subaru AWD system isn't? What in the hell does it matter? If the BMW system gets the job done better, than the Subaru does who cares if it is managed by electronics.? We're not exactly talking about two vehicles designed to slog through mud, or yank boats out of the water and up a ramp. If anything we should see this as a reason to be thankfull Subaru has finally decided to offer a stability and traction control programs to their cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandman Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I was driving mine (with RE 92s) through 2ft snow drifts last night, and my car made it up to the mountain today great......... although the calipers were frozen this morning! Only two feet? Who Dares Wins スバル Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 How does driver error cause someone in an AWD vehicle to get stuck in the snow? I think the primary clue here is that he smoked the clutch so badly that actual smoke was coming out of the engine bay. I think that pretty clearly points (with neon signs) to driver error. If he was revving so much that the clutch even stank, then he wasn't driving properly in snow. Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 didn't you read the first post? it's to reassert himself as "alpha dog" in the marriage!! If he looses "alpha dog" status over such trivial things then he is either married to a very manly woman, or he is a nancy boy. Just tell him to go slap her on the rear, and tell her to get her b**** ass back in the kitchen and make me some pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toshiba2.5 Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Great Point. I have a Auto 2.5i so i really wouldnt know how it is trying to get out of 5 inches of snow in a MT i just step òn the gas and it gets me out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamaxus Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I think the primary clue here is that he smoked the clutch so badly that actual smoke was coming out of the engine bay. I think that pretty clearly points (with neon signs) to driver error. If he was revving so much that the clutch even stank, then he wasn't driving properly in snow. i totally glossed over that part of the OP. Riding the clutch? I know want to know what his definition of 'revving gently' is. There shouldn't be a whole lot of 'revving' involved in heaving snow driving, nice and slow is the key. Unless there is an upward incline involved (more specifically going up one). If thats the case then it's all about momentum and angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRAC3 Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I saw an H2 try futilely to get out of a parking spot yesterday morning. He actually had to get a shovel. I only saw two wheels spinning, so I'm pretty sure his 4wd wasn't working, or he was a dumbass that didn't know how to turn it on. sadly, the 4wd was turned on.... the H2 is built on a chevrolet extended cab 3/4 ton frame. they put an awd transfer case in them... there's no 2 and 4wd... the H3 is on the chevrolet colorado frame. same deal, awd trans case, they figure if you're stupid enough to pay all that cash for such a useless vehicle in terms of space and driveability just to be seen that you would be unable to control a transfer case you're hard pressed to find ANY suv with a v8 that has a 2/4d transfer case anymore... it's a deal breaker for so many vehicles for individuals I know looking to get them.. and after a4s a couple of A4's with stick and this being my first scooby (and second automatic car) I'm impressed with it's snow worthieness, although with the limited slip in the rear end, it's easy to make it get tail happy! and I agree that without having to slip the clutch (the tq converter doing the slipping) you have a little better control of getting a vehicle out of certain low traction situations trust me I've done a lot of offroading, rock crawling and intense driving... while there's nothing like popping a clutch at high revs to get tires spinning, autos have a great usefullness in these snowy situations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraysonSubaru Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 some links i found where bmw awd is compared with subaru awd..both by professionials and actual owners. http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-9832.html http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20050225001/tscript.htm http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=3280&page_number=9 http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=3280 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawdaddy79 Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 you may have been getting lucky? How were you doing it? lots of gas? steady gas? Driver error is just usually how it goes. Also it could have been a different situation with your BMW, snow is not of a uniform constance and that makes every situation different. So if you would care to explain your technique them maybe people would stop mentioning driver error. Maybe your wife got lucky? maybe it was momentum or a million other things. Your experiment is hardly conclusive. I think you are mistaking me for someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydrew Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 2nd gear start FTW plus a lot!^^^ I just have three quick points. A. If any slippage occurs AT or MT, start off in second gear. B. In 1992 in my home state of VT, I owned a 318i, RWD of course. Fresh out of high school, I worked at Mountain Top Inn, look here. With only Nokia's, I drove up and down that mountain and drove to Killington (skiing) for the three years I owned it. NEVER GOT STUCK, EVER. Had lots of fun with RWD too. C. One evening there was an awesome snowstorm, beautiful, big fat snowflakes. The whiney reservationist that I worked with came in bawling that she went off the road and got a ride up the mountain. Her car: the ever popular Blue Subaru GL 4D Wagon. The maintenance guy and myself grab tow chains and drive down the mountain in the tricked out F-350 dump/snowplow truck. There, the suby sat in a field about 20 feet off the road in new and old snow almost covering the entire wheel wells. While Ernie got the chains together, I went stomping through the snow (over knee-deep). I get in looking for the famous AWD lever near the e-brake. She didn't even use it, it was down. I start it up, step on the gas and no movement. I pulled up the lever, listened for the engagement, and floored it. I swear to god, that car jumped from its spot and went like mad man driving through that field and back on the road. Biggest grin I ever had. I get out of the car and see Ernie wrapped in chains looking at me in amazement. That night, I knew I would one day own a SUBARU! ProTUNED by RaminiSports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzy Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Hate to say it, and I hated even more to believe it but this must be said. 2 cars, identical conditions, same driveway, same garage. LGT 5MT with Blizzak LM-25's could not make it out of the driveway, rocking back and forth. Smoking the clutch. Reving gently, reving hard. No difference. Could barely make it out of the driveway. Could not make it back up the driveway later. 325Xi with 3 year old bald Eagle RSA's 5 auto trans. Made it out of the drive with hardly a wheel spin. I couldn't believe it myself so I went back up the drive and again no problems. Hardly any spinning at all. For all you xdrive haters, this real world test is very revealing. The Xdrive and traction control kicked my LGT with Blizzaks butt, my heart is broken. I'm speechless, my wife is laughing at me. You must not know how to drive because there is no way that bmw's electronic awd system can offer more grip then the lgt mechanical awd. It's possible your tires suck or you suck. I am sorry but you should be embarassed to even post this. My cousin has a 325xi and he wishes he could do what my lgt can do in the snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prod Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 See here for why I can't fathom an LGT getting stuck: http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54851 Granted, I have a 5EAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerami1981 Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Well it's a lot easier when you're stuck and spinning all four wheels to only have to use two pedals instead of three. Hence when I said, more control, that's the situation I was thinking about when I made that statement. I don't know about other manual drivers, but if i am stuck i only use 2 pedals to get free..not this 3 you mention. Only time i have ever had any trouble is driving on summer only tires or when the snow gets deep enough and speeds slow enough to lift the actual car off the ground. Once your tires lose touch with the pavement your game is over no matter what your tires (excluding studded tires). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magowin Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I don't know I've never gotten stuck anywhere and I'm stage 2 with about 270whp. Last year I was plowed in at my friends apt complex and the snow was above the bumper and I didnt even shovel I just got in car started it and cleared snow off windows and pulled right out. This past week we had a nasty ice storm and my driveway is at a 90 degree incline and my car got right up the driveway without problems. The first ice storm we had I drove my Del Sol because it started while I was in work and with that car I would get about halfway and the front end would just swing around down the driveway and face down I almost swung around and hit the Subbie I will never drive that car again if there is freezing precipitation out. I wouldn't think a Scion TC would be any different than that as mentioned in Penguin's post. Tires on Subbie are Pirelli Pzero Nero's and Del Sol has All Season Kumho's I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamaxus Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I think you are mistaking me for someone else. you are in fact correct, i am sorry about that. I spend to much time else where so I'm not used to this message board style, i read it as you being the OP, which you're not - apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 nevermind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmurph Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 hmmm...I'm running Michelin Pilot Alpins PA2s on my LGT Wagon...We just had 6-8 inches of snow and I had no problems getting up the hill in my driveway... I had to drive through a snow drift over foot deep at the base of my driveway...the car drove through it like a hot knife through butter. Here's a pic of the driveway from last winter...tracks are from my M3 running Dunlop Wintersport M3 snows....and 120lbs of sand over the rear axle. http://members.roadfly.org/kmurph/DrivewayWinter.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chancebenson Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 i wish i had snow like that in houston...damn thats awesome... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewLegGT67 Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires An LGT with good rubber will never fail you. Okay now am convinced about the replacing the stock tires because the snow is up to the rims and I have the RE92s and I also cannot get it out of the snow when I got home from work yesterday. This is not just two inches of snow. This is two inches of frozen concrete snow. I cannot even shovel this shit. Also, I don't what to burn up the clutch trying to get out. I thought I could get through a winter with the re92s because I don't drive everyday(mainly weekends) but I am going to have to bit the bullet and get some real tires if this is a long winter. I'm probably the only person that has Wu-Tang Clan and Paul McCartney on their mp3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABPillinois Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Still have the re92s on and have been getting plenty of snow no problems at all. I just notice the back end coming around with too much throttle. :rolleyes:"All right, brain, I don't like you and you don't like me - so let's just do this and I'll get back to killing you with beer." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordJim Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Okay now am convinced about the replacing the stock tires because the snow is up to the rims and I have the RE92s and I also cannot get it out of the snow when I got home from work yesterday. This is not just two inches of snow. This is two inches of frozen concrete snow. I cannot even shovel this shit. Also, I don't what to burn up the clutch trying to get out. I thought I could get through a winter with the re92s because I don't drive everyday(mainly weekends) but I am going to have to bit the bullet and get some real tires if this is a long winter. If you can't get through a winter with the RE92's, then it's not likely that new tires will help. As has been mentioned hundreds of times before, the stock tires aren't the best, but they're not the worst, either. Myself and many others have made it through inclement weather just fine on the stock rubber. - Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prod Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 If you can't get through a winter with the RE92's, then it's not likely that new tires will help. As has been mentioned hundreds of times before, the stock tires aren't the best, but they're not the worst, either. Myself and many others have made it through inclement weather just fine on the stock rubber. - Jim I disagree totally. Tires are night and day. Yes, you can get through a winter on RE92s, but proper snow tires will make life a bunch easier. My car is practically a snowplow on Dunlop Graspics. On RE92s I would get bogged down in 6" of snow. Now 6" of snow might as well be pavement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordJim Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 I realize that dedicated snow tires will perform better than any all season in the snow. That's a given. My point is that if you truly can't get your car moving on the stock tires, that 'better' tires aren't likely to help. Unless you are going only a few MPH, the stock tires simply do not have anywhere near the appropriate level of steering control, rear-slide control, etc... as a winter tire does. Depends on your definition of "appropriate". The RE92's have gotten hundreds of people through the winter - This winter, last winter, and the winter before that. Are there better tires for the job? Of course there. Are the stock tires adequate? Of course they are. - Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnig Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Was it the same driver ? I have no problems with my 06 LGT 5EAT with RE92 rubbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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