05 LGT "studdering" during low speed acceleration.

[melayout]

[quote name='jt51']Went to the Dealer today, the response I got, "Could not duplicate the customer concern." Just what I figured I would get.[/QUOTE] Did you just hand them the car and let them try to reproduce it?!!! I insist on having one of their techs ride with me. I've done so one time for another issue and successfully reproduced it. After which they immediately gave me a loaner and fixed it under warranty.

[Glenn]

[quote name='Peale']I had the opportunity to talk to a master Subaru technician about this and they sure do know about it. They still do not seem to know exactly what causes it but had some good ideas. Even the sales manager said most legacys/outbacks do have this problem to different degrees. Told me to have the service department make a notice on this at my next service. It sounded like they were waiting for an ECU upgrade for this problem. They did not know if the '06 would have this solved since they had not seen them yet.[/QUOTE] The reason that the WRX STI & the Forester XT doesn't have this problem with their manual transmissions, is that their is no catylitic restriction in up pipe. Our cars have the restriction, unless we replace with an uppie.

[jt51]

I am unable to reproduce this eveytime I'm in the car. So, driving with the tech, and there is only one at the shop I go to, isn't going to work unless of course it happens while we are driving. But, I did do that with the tech with the Brake sound I am having, which is able to be reproduced, his response was that it was a normal sound. So that kinda influenced my decision about driving around to produce this stutter. I figured they would have some knowledge in the Subaru data base.

[Peale]

[quote name='jt51']Went to the Dealer today, the response I got, "Could not duplicate the customer concern." Just what I figured I would get.[/QUOTE] I just returned from the dealer. Told them about the studdering problem and they made a notice of it in their database. They didn't even test for it, it is a well known problem. Service rep said he was going to meet with some regional distributor today and was going to ask about when they would have a fix ready. This problem has been around for almost a year according to the service rep. /t

[emlevins]

WhenI went in for service last week and discussed this with the service manager and a master tech, they kept calling it "turbo lag". I emphatically explained the difference. Having had an 02 WRX before the LGT (and three other turbo vehicles before that) I told them that I KNOW turbo lag and this is not it and referred them to this board. FWIW, they said Subaru is taking the "official" position that it is turbo lag.... I told them that if the 06 comes out and the problem is solved, they better take care of the rest of us....

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='emlevins']I told them that if the 06 comes out and the problem is solved, they better take care of the rest of us....[/QUOTE]Yeah, if that's true I won't even mind being "that guy" and causing a scene at the dealership..

[jt51]

Went to the NHTSA site to see if any complaints on the studdering have been filed, did not see any, but saw two on the "stinky clutch."

[Glenn]

I strongly beleive that this is an emissions related issue comming from the pre converter. The other 2.5 turbo models in the Forester and STI don't have any restriction on the upper exhaust, thereby don't have this studdering issue. I for one am having my up-pipe replaced, and if this resolves the issue I will have better grounds to fight Subaru in court if necessary.

[morgan041]

After reading Driver72 thread about his lack of acceleration from low speeds really answered my question("5 speed or Automatic?). My belief is it is a combination of Turbo lag and All Wheel Drive. My friend told me to replace the up-pipe to let the turbo spool up faster. Another friend told me he saw a WRX Sti literally jump off the ground when he stomped it(of course it was heavily modified). All in all I am glad to own this unsung"street sweeper sleeper" hero of a car. Luckily I have a dealer that has an on-site performance shop including dyno for his Subie's. By the way I own a Automatic( great fo downshifting if you have to react fast from Johnny Law:lol: ) SHAWN

[GetAwayDriver]

I've had my LGT for 3 weeks now with about 1100 miles on it and have noticed a buck/studder/bog at low RPMs in 1st and 2nd. This is most prevalent in stop and go traffic and when coming to stopsigns/lights/yields, and starting up after the appropriate actions. It does not happen all the time, but enough to make me aware of it. I travel in the car at about 3.5 RPMS and shift in the high 3s to keep it out of the range. I have not experienced any problems in high gears. I run Shell 93 V-Power fuel and thought it was my driving, but after talking at the dealer today, I am convinced my driving is not the problem. I will go back tomorrow to the service rep, and document the problem. This is the first turboed car that I have owned, first Subie, and I can tell you it won't be my last, but this problem is getting annoying. Hope its a simple fix. Thanks.

[racerdave]

All turbo owners probably have it right in the 2700-3100 range. Moderate to heavy throttle openings in that range seem to make it appear every time. Feels like it's running too rich or something.

[Glenn]

[quote name='racerdave']All turbo owners probably have it right in the 2700-3100 range. Moderate to heavy throttle openings in that range seem to make it appear every time. Feels like it's running too rich or something.[/QUOTE] You mean all turbo owners of the Legacy Gt or Outback XT. My Saab 9-3 turbo doesn't do it, nor did my Cummins turbo in my truck studder. Both were smooth and powerfull on throttle.

[racerdave]

Ah... since this is a LGT thread, I hoped it was clear. ;) Only trying to clarify between the GT and 2.5i versions of the LGT/OBXT.

[Glenn]

[b]Sduddering, AKA, hesitation has NOTHING to do with turbo lag. There is obviosly an issues with the amount of restriction placed on the up pipe. Our cars meet Bin 8 emissions, whereas the STI conforms to Bin 10, thus doesn't have the up pipe catylitic restriction. The issue here is that the GT & Outback XT should also be allowed to conform to Bin 10.[/b]

[Peale]

Good news for you "studdering" people :). I stopped by the dealer today and asked about the problem again because the service rep had met with a Subaru rep earlier. He said they had a fix and scheduled me to come in. He said it depends on your VIN number if they will fix it. They are going to send my ECU away for "recalibration". I was the second person getting it done. They would not say what the problem is. /t

[dark_rex]

i felt it on my test drive. mentioned it to the salesman, but he said he didn't feel anything. do the AP / reflash people have the issue, or is it gone?

[emlevins]

[quote name='Peale']Good news for you "studdering" people :). I stopped by the dealer today and asked about the problem again because the service rep had met with a Subaru rep earlier. He said they had a fix and scheduled me to come in. He said it depends on your VIN number if they will fix it. They are going to send my ECU away for "recalibration". I was the second person getting it done. They would not say what the problem is. /t[/QUOTE] Has a service bulletin been issue to dealers on this? Peale - if you could find out if your service manager received anything in writing from SOA about this, it would be tremendously helpful to the rest of us.

[SBT]

[quote name='emlevins']Has a service bulletin been issue to dealers on this? Peale - if you could find out if your service manager received anything in writing from SOA about this, it would be tremendously helpful to the rest of us.[/QUOTE] Ditto - I would really like to take something to my master tech on this as he has identified the problem, but does not have a solution in hand yet. Anything you can provide would be helpful. TIA SBT

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='emlevins']Has a service bulletin been issue to dealers on this? [/QUOTE]No, you can check [url]http://techinfo.subaru.com[/url]

[Peale]

I'll check with the service rep next time to see how they plan to handle this issue for the rest of the community (if SOA has something in writing or not). They need to come up with a better solution to handle the issue than send the ECU away for reprogramming. I've yet to hear from my dealer if my VIN number qualifies for the service. There is one person ahead of me on the 11th, and I'm scheduled for the 18th. /t

[Deer Killer]

I'd like to hear if 1. It actually works, not just a little, not just some of the time, but 100% smooth 24/7 hot/cold 2. Cobb can identify a map change (I hope not) or a code change which they can put into an to an update.

[legacylai]

My 2 cents... I'd the same prob too on my LGT and was told by my mech it was running too rich. Thankfully, I was in the process of changing my ECU (using the HKS Fcon Vpro) which allowed me to run on a leaner fuel curve. Also, a useful feature that I took advantage of every 2,000kms was a function which amplified the spark plugs by 3 times (only at crank). With this ECU, by depressing the accelerator all the way and cranking it a few times, it "cleans" the spark plugs but it does shorten the life span of the coil packs. However, through this method, I've eliminated the studdering. I'm sure there are a myriad of other methods... unfortunately, I can't bring the car back to the dealer coz they'll only honour the warranty on a totally stock car.

[dark_rex]

any word from those who have reflashes? is the hesitation gone?

[BigBen]

[font=Arial][size=2]I spoke to my Subaru District Service Operations Manager in mid-June. He test drove the car, and confirmed that this is "surging" and that it is the same phenomena that can be found on all 05 LGT 5M's. He initially said that there was nothing that he could do because it was "normal" meaning that the car was running as it was designed, albeit shitty. The issue is that the car is running lean at that point to meet emissions standards. He said that the '06 models would have the same engine hardware, but a different ECU map which gives more horsepower, but he couldn't be sure when that ECU map would be available, or if they would be able to use it on an '05. While I was in the process of telling my dealer that they could take the car back, I got a call from the Ops Mgr who said that Subaru would have a fix at the end of June. Since I really want to keep the car, I decided to see what would happen. He didn't call like he said he would, but I called early this month and learned that the ECU flash was available. I took the car in last week to have the work done, but the problem is not fixed!!!! They did change something in the map, because the stuttering/surging isn't as bad, but it's not fixed. I took the service writer for a test drive, and he said it was turbo lag. I won't go there. So the next step is to let the tuner at my local dealer take it for a spin with his PC attached and see what he can tell me. This is complete BS. I can't believe that Subaru is treating customers like this! I'm a young guy who's spend a lot of money on a car, and will be buying many more cars before I take the eternal celestial dirt nap. They claim that they're trying to build their customer base back, but this isn't helping. [/size][/font]

[Chris]

As i mentioned early in this thread, the 2004 Mini Cooper S suffered similarly and BMW took over a year to finally resolve it. Ashame Subaru can not respond quicker. My 2005 Baja Turbo 5spd stutters/"yo yos" in the mid range, similar to the LGT, FXT & OBXT 5spds that I test drove, a very frustrating sensation!! :mad: