05 LGT "studdering" during low speed acceleration.

[Opie]

Blame the EPA for the hesitation...it's caused by a combination of air-to-fuel ratio's and the boost level of the OEM turbo...

[Max Capacity]

The one 4 door I test drove back in the end of June had it real bad. I was the first one to drive the car. after the dealer got it ready from the truck. They had to do something to the car so I could drive it. Don't remember what that was, but I do remember they had to unwrap the seats. That car had the worst case I've felt. The other three I drove all were fine. All test drivers had less the 20 miles on them. Mine has over 6600 miles and still studders, I can feel it everyday. The service manager tells me to wait until around 9000 miles and it should go away. As for the gas idea I have run more then three tanks of 93 octane from the same station thru it and the studder is still there. opie, are you sure? I know your in the bussiness.

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='Opie']Blame the EPA for the hesitation...it's caused by a combination of air-to-fuel ratio's and the boost level of the OEM turbo...[/QUOTE] That's a poor excuse. Whatever mixture is required the ECU should be able to run it in a steady-state, and it can't. Not to mention it doesn't stutter when you just go WOT all the way through the rpm range. If doesn't do it at WOT, there is no reason it can't be made to not do it at partial throttle. Whoever did the ECU programming at subaru needs to be fired, and never allowed to touch a computer again. (I'll stop short of a firing squad for gross incompetence)

[Halcyon]

[quote name='shane']AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH What is it with Americans coming up with new words? Use either shudder or stutter for crying out loud. Studder???????????????????? Sounds like the car just hesitates intermittently would be a better description. Did you guys even go to school - or did you forget most of what you learnt when you left? It's not hard to speak like an adult. For what it's worth, I'll try to help. A modern car takes miles to adapt to a higher octane fuel. From my experience, the consumption of around 3 tank fulls of a higher octane fuel allows the car to fully adapt to it and therefore make the most out of it. If you are exepriencing the hesitation symptoms described here, run you car on three full tanks of the highest octane fuel available and see if the problem persists. Don't try one tank of low octane in between the other tanks of high octane.[/QUOTE] Main Entry: stut·ter Function: verb Etymology: frequentative of English dialect stut to stutter, from Middle English stutten; akin to Dutch stotteren to stutter, Gothic stautan to strike -- more at CONTUSION intransitive senses 1 : to speak with involuntary disruption or blocking of speech (as by spasmodic repetition or prolongation of vocal sounds) [b]2 : to move or act in a halting or spasmodic manner <the old jalopy bucks and stutters uphill -- William Cleary>[/b] Main Entry: shud·der Function: intransitive verb Inflected Form(s): shud·dered; shud·der·ing /-d(&-)ri[ng]/ Etymology: Middle English shoddren; akin to Old High German skutten to shake and perhaps to Lithuanian kuteti to shake up [b]1 : to tremble convulsively : SHIVER[/b] 2 : QUIVER As you can see, both terms "stutter" and "shudder" could be used to describe a car that shakes under acceleration. And by definition, stutter [b]means[/b] "hesitates intermittently." As for the misspellings, they are of no real consequence, since everyone understands the intent. So, please, no more comments about correct terminology, since it really doesn't help the discussion. My car definitely stutters when I apply medium throttle in 2nd and 3rd gear. I have 2100 miles, and have never used less than 93 octane gas. I do think that it is related to the computer/fuel system somehow. The car WANTS to take off, but for some reason the computer holds you back.

[squirrel-bait]

I don't think my GT has this problem. I tried it out last night after reading this thread. I couldn't get it to stutter in 2nd or 3rd gear. I did, however, notice some hesitation or surging when the car is cold and pulling in 4th gear. But that goes away as it warms up. My car was built in mid-september. Maybe they've got it straightened out now? sqrl b8

[Drift Monkey]

[quote name='Halcyon']Main Entry: stut·ter Function: verb Etymology: frequentative of English dialect stut to stutter, from Middle English stutten; akin to Dutch stotteren to stutter, Gothic stautan to strike -- more at CONTUSION intransitive senses 1 : to speak with involuntary disruption or blocking of speech (as by spasmodic repetition or prolongation of vocal sounds) [b]2 : to move or act in a halting or spasmodic manner <the old jalopy bucks and stutters uphill -- William Cleary>[/b] Main Entry: shud·der Function: intransitive verb Inflected Form(s): shud·dered; shud·der·ing /-d(&-)ri[ng]/ Etymology: Middle English shoddren; akin to Old High German skutten to shake and perhaps to Lithuanian kuteti to shake up [b]1 : to tremble convulsively : SHIVER[/b] 2 : QUIVER As you can see, both terms "stutter" and "shudder" could be used to describe a car that shakes under acceleration. And by definition, stutter [b]means[/b] "hesitates intermittently." As for the misspellings, they are of no real consequence, since everyone understands the intent. So, please, no more comments about correct terminology, since it really doesn't help the discussion. My car definitely stutters when I apply medium throttle in 2nd and 3rd gear. I have 2100 miles, and have never used less than 93 octane gas. I do think that it is related to the computer/fuel system somehow. The car WANTS to take off, but for some reason the computer holds you back.[/QUOTE] pwnd by teh dictionary. :lol:

[05USdmGTgUy]

my car does this occasionally , but i try not to accelerate from that low of an rpm as it doesn't make that much sense to me to be at or below2000rpm ever. All it feels like to me is the soft liquid filled engine mounts letting the motor "stutter" and having such a sensitive gas pedal causes your foot to help keep that shake going. Just my opinion. Mike....

[Black_Legacy]

I don't seem to have this problem I checked last night. Maybe you're all just not used to the clutch. I agree with 05usdmgtguy. I hardly ever have my car under 2000 rpms. If you shifting and your rpms drop below 2000 you are shifting way too soon.

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='Black_Legacy']I don't seem to have this problem I checked last night. Maybe you're all just not used to the clutch. I agree with 05usdmgtguy. I hardly ever have my car under 2000 rpms. If you shifting and your rpms drop below 2000 you are shifting way too soon.[/QUOTE] 2000-3000 rpms..

[emlevins]

[quote name='Black_Legacy']I don't seem to have this problem I checked last night. Maybe you're all just not used to the clutch. I agree with 05usdmgtguy. I hardly ever have my car under 2000 rpms. If you shifting and your rpms drop below 2000 you are shifting way too soon.[/QUOTE] This is not a problem that is restricted to 2K rpms or below. I've experienced it at much higher rpms - for example downshifting from 4th to 3rd on the highway at 65 or 70...smoothly...getting in to gear comfortably...and then hitting the throttle and....there it is!

[sandwood]

Mine has stuttered once already, and I've only had it 2 days. MT, rapid application of medium throttle from about 2k rpm. I think it must be ecu related. am waiting to see if I can duplicate it and if under different conditions. only 150 miles on the car.....

[Driver72]

Guys, I just spoke to SOA and spoke to a guy named Grant. I told him about the "stuttering" our cars are experiencing. He had never heard of this yet. This means, nobody is calling about it. But he did document everything I said, and I even told him about this website and the poll results so far. I was given a "case" number and he assured me they'll look into it. He also encouraged me to take my car to the dealer and see what they say as well. Bottom line...we need everyone who has experienced this to call SOA as soon as possible. The number is: 1-800-SUBARU3 File a "case" number about it too. The more they get the better chance of getting quick results will be. It took me all of 5-10 minutes, but since this representative hadn't heard of it before and I was the first to mention it, he asked quite a few questions and we discussed it a bit more than would be normal. It would probably only take you a couple of minutes. Please do call, so we can get this issue taken care of. Again, we may find our cars will run even better and stronger once this "stuttering" issue is taken care of.

[pittkid333]

my car does this occasionally at 285 mi. just felt like it cut out & in when i accelerate

[gtguy]

[quote name='Driver72']Guys, I just spoke to SOA and spoke to a guy named Grant. I told him about the "stuttering" our cars are experiencing. He had never heard of this yet. This means, nobody is calling about it. But he did document everything I said, and I even told him about this website and the poll results so far. I was given a "case" number and he assured me they'll look into it. He also encouraged me to take my car to the dealer and see what they say as well. Bottom line...we need everyone who has experienced this to call SOA as soon as possible. The number is: 1-800-SUBARU3 File a "case" number about it too. The more they get the better chance of getting quick results will be. It took me all of 5-10 minutes, but since this representative hadn't heard of it before and I was the first to mention it, he asked quite a few questions and we discussed it a bit more than would be normal. It would probably only take you a couple of minutes. Please do call, so we can get this issue taken care of. Again, we may find our cars will run even better and stronger once this "stuttering" issue is taken care of.[/QUOTE] Ahem...pardon me for saying this, but the most effective way to get a problem fixed is to work through your dealer's service department. Subaru has had an interesting time with Internet message boards, polls, and general concern over a problem that is whipping people into a frenzy. I'm referring of course to the deadly WRX ABS problem that resulted in an NHTSA inquiry to Subaru and that, as far as I know, has resulted in little except hassle. Your dealer is the most direct link to Subaru imaginable, far more than any of us could ever be. Bring to the attention of the service department, and follow up with them. But Subaru doesn't know your particular car or the characteristics thereof, nor can they drive your car. Your dealer's service department can. Just my .02. Kevin

[Driver72]

Kevin, SOA recommended that I DO bring it up to my local service department so they can investigate further. They mentioned that the service departments have some kind of computer access that even the customer service reps at SOA don't. He also mentioned it would be a good idea to bring it up to them so if the problem worsens or doesnt go away that it's documented with them as well. But he couldn't thank me enough (must have been half a dozen times) for notifing SOA of this issue. He said they assign case numbers to every complaint or problem and investigate and follow up on it. If SOA sees this is a pretty typical problem, which it apparently is, it behooves not only them as a company, but US as their customers to find the problem and get it solved. If that means working WITH the service departments of particular dealers or financing some leading Subaru service departments and spearheading the charge to find the problem, so be it. A stuttering car under acceleration isn't going to whip anybody up into a frenzy like and ABS problem that in fact could lead to a death. Further, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration would hardly care about a stuttering car under acceleration like they would about a car whose ABS system might be faulty. There is NO safety issue or risk with stuttering acceleration. Therefore, I stand by fact that this is a problem that is obviously inherent in A LOT of 2005 LGT's and we NEED to all call SOA and file that complaint so we can get it solved as soon as possible.

[SBT]

[quote name='Driver72']I only have 285 miles on my car even though I've had it for 3 weeks. I didn't notice it for the first 250 miles, but most of those were freeway miles going from the dealership to home and then to Star Shield and back getting my clearbra put on. And yes, I did vary my speed on the freeway between 60-80 mph and even occasionally shifting it down to 4th while at 60-65 mph for a little bit. But once while the car was still relatively cold I noticed it, and then later after driving it around for 10-15 miles it did it again a couple times. I wondered if it was the case of it being so new, but others with over their break in miles still get it and I remember reading other posts about this too. Here's one of them: [url="http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2030&highlight=studder"]http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2030&highlight=studder[/url] I'm hoping it will go away with more break in miles and as the ECU "learns" and adjusts for everything, including the crappy 91 Octane California gas. Again, I just want to get a better idea of how wide spread it is and how many people it affected and if it "went away" for them as they got more miles on the car. Mine doesn't seem to be that bad or that often, but still even though it's minor and I've only noticed it a couple times, I wouldn't like it if it was there all the time.[/QUOTE]I talked to the local Subaru master tech about this last week and he says that the new Subarus (all of the 04 and newer Turbo models) have a 1500 mile ECU "learn" cycle before they are finally "burnt in" (my terms). This is the guy that the other regional techs and reps turn to for their information so he's got this stuff down. The reason it's hiccuping is that the ECU has detected something "not right" about the timing/air/fuel mixture at that acceleration point and is quickly readjusting everything to protect the engine in anticipation of additional inputs, e.g., warm-up, throttle, speed, etc. Give it some time to break in but also document the "when" and under what "conditions", e.g., cold, slightly warm, hot engine, off-idle, stop and go, cruising, WOT, etc - just make a log. Then, when you take it to the dealer, point out the when/conditions under which it's occurred and offer to demo it for the service writer/technician if you don't think that they can replicate it. You know your car's operating charateristics better than anyone else so don't let it continue if it's not abating/stopping. He indicated that an ECU reset is sometimes all it needs but in some cases a complete reflash will be required. Also, if you don't get it resolved to your satisfaction, give 1-800-Subaru3 a call and open a case file for that particular issue. SBT

[gtguy]

I'm glad that Subaru recommended that you hit the service folks up, as I do. That really is the fastest and most personal route. I also think it's the first thing to do, before calling SOA. Good luck. Kevin

[BlkLegGt]

[quote name='emlevins']This is not a problem that is restricted to 2K rpms or below. I've experienced it at much higher rpms - for example downshifting from 4th to 3rd on the highway at 65 or 70...smoothly...getting in to gear comfortably...and then hitting the throttle and....there it is![/QUOTE] Just got mine 2 days ago (currently with 250 miles on it), and I agree completely with the above quote. Same sensation when downshifting from 5th to 4th. Now we have had CONSTANT drizzle her for the past 3 days (100% humidity) and I thought this may be the cause, but, after catching this thread...maybe not. Here's a new thought: [color=blue]perhaps the issue stems from the 'drive-by-wire' throttle[/color][color=black]?[/color] I find the matter to be an annoyance, and not a deal-breaker...overall, I love the car. In any event, I will notify my dealer and SOA of the concern. Or, just wait until COBB comes out with a Stage 1 AP for the Legacy;) -Steve

[BlkLegGt]

bump

[awdG35killer]

[quote name='gtguy']I'm glad that Subaru recommended that you hit the service folks up, as I do. That really is the fastest and most personal route. I also think it's the first thing to do, before calling SOA. Good luck. Kevin[/QUOTE] but it may be hard to "duplicate" the problem...i dont wanna practice doing it or anything just so they can look at it, then drive it who knows how many miles to duplicate it again and "try" to fix it.

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='awdG35killer']but it may be hard to "duplicate" the problem...i dont wanna practice doing it or anything just so they can look at it, then drive it who knows how many miles to duplicate it again and "try" to fix it.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=61101&postcount=15[/url]

[Driver72]

DeerKiller is correct. I can get my car to do it every time now following that formula. Stick it in 2nd gear and drop the revs to 2000 rpm's (about 18-20 mph I believe) then give it about 1/2 throttle and the car will "buck", "stutter", whatever you want to call it 2 or 3 times as it accelerates. I have just over 300 miles on my car. I plan on calling my local dealer and pointing it out as well. If it doesn't correct by 1500 miles like some have suggested it would (though others with more miles that that still have the problem) the dealer or SOA had better do something. I don't like that feeling at all. Just doesn't feel correct. And since it apparently isn't a problem on the WRX STI or the Forester XT, both with the same engine, it MUST be something to do with the ECU or something.

[Driver72]

Update! I spoke to a service tech at Subaru Thousand Oaks about the stuttering, he claimed he's never heard of it or gotten any complaints about it. Know that's a lie, because Boostjunkie took his car there about the same problem. I told him to go drive one of the 05 LGT's on the lot and do the 2000 rpm's in 2nd gear test and tell me if he feels it. Well, he did. But he, and another service tech that was with him, claimed it was the turbolag!!! LOL Now I've driven quite a few turbocharged cars and turbolag doesn't hiccup and stutter like that. So, that didn't do anygood. I'm going to call SOA again tomorrow and see what they've come up with.

[SBT]

D72 - I'd make an appointment with the SM and the tech for you to drive/demo the abberation. That was the only way that I could get resolution on the clutch judder on my 98 BD. Once they saw it demo'd and felt it in the car, they fixed everything under warranty. Good luck and keep us posted. SBT

[Tzar007]

I have a spanking new Legacy GT Wagon Limited manual with barely 500 miles on it. I have tried many of the "techniques" mentioned here to try to provoke stuttering, but my car seems to be completely "stutter-free". No stutter, no shakes, nothing. Mind you though, low RPMs are obviously not this engine's forte. Below 2000 RPM or 2500 RPM, flooring mid-way or entirely the throttle does not elicit a lot of reaction from the engine. It takes forever for the revs to climb up to 2500-2700 RPM and then...whoooosssshh! The car's gone. That is normal behavior from most 4 cylinders engine. I've owned a Toyota MR2 and two Honda Preludes before this Legacy and they were all dead at low RPMs. I've learned better than to try to floor the throttle under 2K. I've learned to use that shift stick to get the revs up a little bit. With the Legacy, you have to do less of stick shifting to bring the power up since the torque band starts much sooner than in Hondas for example. So don't expect strong pulling power at low RPMs, however the kind of stuttering and shakes you guys are expecting is weird since I don't have anything like this. There is indeed something bizarre there.