05 LGT "studdering" during low speed acceleration.

[ken_depew]

I have 2100 miles on my lgt 5speed man and it has studdered from day one.I just live with it for now.

[leg-a-c]

i have 2000 and there is a definite shudder, mostly only when shes cold

[GSXR2GT]

[quote name='Subietonic']I talked to the local Subaru master tech about this last week and he says that the new Subarus (all of the 04 and newer Turbo models) have a 1500 mile ECU "learn" cycle before they are finally "burnt in" (my terms). This is the guy that the other regional techs and reps turn to for their information so he's got this stuff down. The reason it's hiccuping is that the ECU has detected something "not right" about the timing/air/fuel mixture at that acceleration point and is quickly readjusting everything to protect the engine in anticipation of additional inputs, e.g., warm-up, throttle, speed, etc. Give it some time to break in but also document the "when" and under what "conditions", e.g., cold, slightly warm, hot engine, off-idle, stop and go, cruising, WOT, etc - just make a log. Then, when you take it to the dealer, point out the when/conditions under which it's occurred and offer to demo it for the service writer/technician if you don't think that they can replicate it. You know your car's operating charateristics better than anyone else so don't let it continue if it's not abating/stopping. He indicated that an ECU reset is sometimes all it needs but in some cases a complete reflash will be required. Also, if you don't get it resolved to your satisfaction, give 1-800-Subaru3 a call and open a case file for that particular issue. SBT[/QUOTE]The salesman I dealt with at Wolfe's in Langley, BC told me not to worry about a gentle break-in period. According to his mechanics, the car was ready to go right from mile zero. I didn't understand what he was getting at, since the manual is clear about the break-in. Perhaps the car is smart enough to prevent abuse during the break-in, resulting in the stutter? It's just a crazy idea, please prove me wrong. What is happening during the "learn" cycle your Master tech is refering to? I'd like to think my salesman is right, because I can't seem to keep it below 4k.

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='GSXR2GT']The salesman I dealt with at Wolfe's in Langley, BC told me not to worry about a gentle break-in period. According to his mechanics, the car was ready to go right from mile zero. I didn't understand what he was getting at, since the manual is clear about the break-in. Perhaps the car is smart enough to prevent abuse during the break-in, resulting in the stutter? It's just a crazy idea, please prove me wrong. What is happening during the "learn" cycle your Master tech is refering to? I'd like to think my salesman is right, because I can't seem to keep it below 4k.[/QUOTE] No more speculation, Subaru has bad ECU maps from the factory. [url]http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=81966&postcount=100[/url]

[Driver72]

Another update: I just spoke to SOA again about this and asked for an update. Again, it appeared I was the first to notify SOA of the "stuttering hesitation" issue. According to the SOA rep I just spoke to, they have been diligently following the issue. She also said, SOA is "very in tune" with the Subaru community and what the aftermarket and tuners are doing. They also always want the input from owners. She said, my initial call and follow up all gets logged and read. And it's often what jump starts campaigns and if necessary recalls to fix problems. I told her again about this website and thread, and also notified them that Shiv over at Vishnu has found the problem. I actually ENCOURAGED them to contact him to discuss the problem. She asked me how to spell his name and such. I told her that it would be beneficial for SOA just to pay him, if necessary, for his R&D that solved the problem. She giggled, but said, she'll definitely put that info in and he very well could be contacted about the issue. Or just allow Shiv to reflash all of our ECU's (on Subaru's dime) to solve the problem but keep our full warranties intact. Shiv, you're welcome. :) Furthermore, I notified them of Automobile Magazine's comments in their magazine. She also said, SOA follows the write ups of the magazines as well. She left it with, "hang in there" and stated hopefully SOA will have some answers and a solution soon.

[Max Capacity]

Do you really think SOA is going to do something. HA HA, I have a complaint in with them about the wind whistle at 50mph from the drivers mirror. I filed it back in Aug. I have not heard anything from them. Do you really think they care? I have told my service manager about the stumble problem from the first week. I bought the car June 2nd. He kept saying it will get better at 9000 miles. LIE I have over 10,000 miles and the car still does it. May be it's time for the news media to get involved may be we need to contact 60 Minutes.

[Driver72]

There's a difference between a car with a whistle in the driver's mirror and thousands of people's engine stumbling around during partial throttle acceleration. You complained the exact opposite way you should have. You should of called SOA about the stumbling and talked to your service manager about the whistling driver's mirror. Get on the horn and call 1800-SUBARU3 The more people complain and make this a REAL issue, the faster it'll get solved. Seems I'm the only person whose called SOA about this. Have called twice. People can't keep bitchin about it and not do anything themselves. Get on the horn, it take only a couple minutes!

[legacy_y_tu]

Driver72: Just because Subaru says " Gee really , that's the first we've heard of it" doesn't make mean they haven't heard of the problem. I would say you are an optimist if you believe Subaru will acknowledge any problems over the phone/person whatever. That does not mean however, that no-one should call and complain. Example: I had the gas pump replaced on my Frontier under recall. They couldn't get the pump to seal right due to all the rust. Went to some Nissan boards I frequent and asked about it. It turned out to be "the norm" for this recall and lots of guys reported this problem to Nissan. Yet when I called Nissan I got "Gee really, that's the first we've heard of this problem". In the end Nissan paid for a new tank, which according to everyone on the board was "the norm" as well. Luckily I had the board to research, like this one. Brian

[Driver72]

Well, if Subaru hadn't heard of it, they will soon enough. Not only have I called about it twice, I filled out a J.D. Power and Associates Survey about the car and reported this problem JD Power is located in Thousand Oaks, CA (where I bought my car) and I have a friend who has a friend that works there, and he's pretty high ranking.. If we don't get any response or see any kind of action being taken by Subaru in the next couple months, I'll ask my friend for the guys number who works at JD Power and Associates, and I'll personally tell him about the problem and see if THEY'LL contact Subaru of America about it. I don't roll over just because someone says roll over (and expects me to accept it). If people haven't call SOA about the stuttering in their cars yet, they're rolling over. Oh, and their are approximately 70 people who answer the phones at SOA and take these kinds of complaints and such. Both of the people I spoke to hadn't heard of it yet. You may choose to be pessimistic as to whether that is true or not, but I spoke to both of them, and they were really nice people who sounded and seemed sincere.

[Driver72]

Oh, another thing, Autoweek is currently looking for comments from owners of Subaru's Legacy for their "autofile" comment section. SOA should also that others, including myself are going to write Autoweek and give my comments. Of course, it'll mostly be positive things to say since I love the LGT, but I'll be sure to point out it's one GLARING fault...the stuttering acceleration! If a few owners write to Autoweek and point this out too, I'm sure Autoweek will PRINT this and SOA isn't going to be happy to see another national (international) magazine printing about this ECU mess up.

[GBY]

I've just turned this Poll into a Sticky in the hopes that all LGT/OBXT owners vote on this.

[Driver72]

Thanks Gumby. It'll help with exposure too. I sent in my comments to Autoweek, and made a specific note for them to come to this site for more almost overwhelmingly positive things about the Legacy. But also adviced them to check out the "stuttering" thread I started. If we turn up the heat like a Death Valley summer afternoon on Subaru to fix this problem, we can all be car stutter free sooner rather than later.

[GBY]

This will help but it will be [i]everyday owners[/i] complaining to their dealer/SOA that will be the basis for a TSB. That should make us all feel special :lol:

[legacy_y_tu]

Driver72: I think you missed my point. I'm simply saying that MANY people may have called and complained and they aren't necessarily going to tell you. However, it also doesn't mean that they aren't addressing the issue simply because they aren't publicly acknowledging it. That's my hope anyway. As far as being pessimistic....nah, I'd call myself a realist. And yes I agree...anyone who is not calling corporate is "rolling over" as you put it. Cheers, Brian

[Driver72]

Sorry Brian, didn't mean to say you ARE pessimistic. Just that I believed them and they sounded sincere, so I chose not to be pessimistic. But I hear you, they obviously weren't going to say to me, "yeah, we've gotten hundreds of calls about this funny acceleration thing. Maybe SOA will look into it if they get several hundred more." So your point is taken. Again, the more people who call, the quicker things will get done. And personally calling the dealer is about worthless, they all seem to say, "oh it's the ECU learning the car, it will go away after so and so miles" or "oh that's just turbo lag" or "hmmm, there's nothing we can do about it, sorry" Gotta by pass the middle man (dealer) and go right to the source (SOA).

[some6uy008]

[quote name='Halcyon']Main Entry: stut·ter Function: verb Etymology: frequentative of English dialect stut to stutter, from Middle English stutten; akin to Dutch stotteren to stutter, Gothic stautan to strike -- more at CONTUSION intransitive senses 1 : to speak with involuntary disruption or blocking of speech (as by spasmodic repetition or prolongation of vocal sounds) [b]2 : to move or act in a halting or spasmodic manner <the old jalopy bucks and stutters uphill -- William Cleary>[/b] Main Entry: shud·der Function: intransitive verb Inflected Form(s): shud·dered; shud·der·ing /-d(&-)ri[ng]/ Etymology: Middle English shoddren; akin to Old High German skutten to shake and perhaps to Lithuanian kuteti to shake up [b]1 : to tremble convulsively : SHIVER[/b] 2 : QUIVER As you can see, both terms "stutter" and "shudder" could be used to describe a car that shakes under acceleration. And by definition, stutter [b]means[/b] "hesitates intermittently." As for the misspellings, they are of no real consequence, since everyone understands the intent. So, please, no more comments about correct terminology, since it really doesn't help the discussion. My car definitely stutters when I apply medium throttle in 2nd and 3rd gear. I have 2100 miles, and have never used less than 93 octane gas. I do think that it is related to the computer/fuel system somehow. The car WANTS to take off, but for some reason the computer holds you back.[/QUOTE] PWNED! This happened because for unknown reason, you thought you knew better than everyone else. I'd get a refund of the tutition you paid at your school if I were you. :)

[Driver72]

Huh? Who exactly is your above comment directed towards? Oh, never mind, I don't think any of us want to know, nor do we care. Oh, and I think you meant "tuition" huh? LOL Back on topic about the stuttering problem with our cars.

[SBT]

D72, Any word yet from the dealer or from Subaru on this issue? For other LGT owners, Have those of you with this issue filed a "case" with SOA? SBT

[Driver72]

No word yet. I don't know if Subaru will send me out some sort of "update" to the "case number" and situation I logged with them or not. I plan on calling them after the new year if I haven't heard anything. I'd be curious if they contacted Shiv at Vishnu as I told SOA they should since he solved the stutter/hesitation issue with our cars through ECU recalibrations. I hope everyone on this board has called SOA about this issue too. They can't overlook hundreds, if not thousands of complaints about the exact same thing for very long. Especially if Autoweek publishes about the hesitation in their magazine after I wrote them for their "autofile" review. And they surely will if others have written Autoweek about this too. Again, we'll see. I plan to keep on it though. It's the one thing that bugs me to no end about this car.

[Bob N]

Anyone one have any updated info on Subaru and /or resolution to the stuttering problem? :confused:

[Driver72]

I'm hoping that SOA will have some kind of an answer by early next year. In the meantime, Shiv over at Vishnu has found the ECU culprit that's causing the problem. You can have your ECU reflashed by him if you want to solve the problem right away. But I think most of us would prefer SOA solving the problem and allowing us to reflash the ECU at our dealers this way keeping our warranties intact.

[peterwillett]

I am at 4300 miles and it still stutters like a 20 year old 4 banger with a burnt out exhaust valve, and the real kicker is that the dealer says this is normal - what a waste of money - back to Acura next time

[SBT]

Pete - Have you contacted SOA to open a case on your car? If so, what did they say and what are their plans to resolve? If you haven't contacted them, recommend you do that soonest 1-800-Subaru3 to get your case established. The dealers know too little yet about this model but some of the larger ones are aware of the issue and are pressing their regional reps for some answers so this is a two-pronged approach - 1) from the owners and 2) from the dealerships. I have every confidence we'll see resolution to this at the beginning of 2005. They can't let this lie, especially with their flagship vehicle. SBT

[Xenonk]

[quote name='peterwillett']I am at 4300 miles and it still stutters like a 20 year old 4 banger with a burnt out exhaust valve, and the real kicker is that the dealer says this is normal - what a waste of money - back to Acura next time[/QUOTE] The car is studdering basically from feedinig a lot of fuel and the timing isn't keeping up with it at low RPMs... this was also a case for the WRX as well for the "better" stock ECU parameters. Just run the car a little bit harder and dont smash on the gas at low rpms, just ease it on.. the car will get better at learning how you drive as well. My car is now studder free after owning it for 5 months with 12k miles on the clock. Keefe

[emlevins]

[quote name='Xenonk']The car is studdering basically from feedinig a lot of fuel and the timing isn't keeping up with it at low RPMs... this was also a case for the WRX as well for the "better" stock ECU parameters. Just run the car a little bit harder and dont smash on the gas at low rpms, just ease it on.. the car will get better at learning how you drive as well. My car is now studder free after owning it for 5 months with 12k miles on the clock. Keefe[/QUOTE] My experience is that the studder is not restricted to, but may be more discernable at, low rpm, but regardless, it is much more likely to occur when you "smash on the gas" as Keefe points out. I'm still studdering at 3300 miles and counting...