Daniel Stern Lighting and Subaru headlight options

[TSiWRX]

wow, that;s some documentation. TSi never has been one for making idle comments.

 

Idle comments I'm not one about .... but like the wifey says, I'm a "self-indulgent writer, who, even worse, often gets diarrhea at the keyboard." FWIW, I know she's right.

 

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I will look into the 65watt low-beams at some point, but I really felt that, on those roads, I would have been much better off with adaptive lighting that turned with my steering wheel.

 

Completely so.

 

I know that Hella currently offers the DynaView (in two different models), and they used to offer another (which I'm having a hard time finding). It'll require an aesthetic compromise, since you'll have to mount them externally, but if you travel backroads often enough, they just might be worth the cost and compromise.

 

With all the posts I read about people having prroblems with HID retrofits combined with the legal ramifications, I just don't understand why people feel the need for HIDs...

 

Retros and p-n-p's having trouble are truly much more rare than they are common. Yes, you'll have people posting about it, but this is an automotive enthusiast Forum, and people will come here seeking to get solutions to their problems, as well as to vent, so you have to keep that in-mind.

 

As for legality, truly and honestly, in most areas, it is *not* going to cause you a problem. However, in those places where inspections truly are rigorous (such as your own) or in areas where lighting laws are stringently enforced, yes, it certainly could pose an issue. There is simply no way around this fact.

 

But even then, higher-wattage solutions (no matter how "harmless," such as the 65 watt replacement for the factory 55, or the "modifications-necessary" HIR bulbs) are, strictly speaking, "illegal" as well.

 

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Honestly, I've got the HIR high-beams and the Osram lows right now...and as I said before I'm happy with the light output. My issue is I spend $50-100 on bulbs per year between the headlights and fog lamps, and I'm tired of it. I want one setup that will provide good light and last for years without needing replacement. I'm getting a decent quality HID with a lifetime warranty professionally installed...if that doesn't solve the problem, then I guess I'll go back to changing out bulbs every six months and see if I can get a bulk discount somewhere....

 

"Decent quality HID" is harder to come by. I would recommend that instead of pursuing retailers, that you contact, instead, our resident HID-retro gurus, mr_luv and MiniSTiGuy and the like, and get their input on what you should obtain, and from which retailer(s) you should seek such solutions from.

 

As for installation, check out the installer from your local area enthusiasts' recommendations. Just because they're "professional," doesn't necessarily mean they know what they're doing. This happens *much* more often than you'd think, and given the specialized knowledge that something such as an HID-retrofit (or even plug-and-play component install) demands, you should be sure your installer is truly as skilled as he says he is. [ To-wit, we speed-detection countermeasures hobbyists routinely see such knowledge/skill deficits in supposed "professional" installers. ] You should also consult your local hobbyists to see who can do the work, on a hobbyist/enthusiast basis, in your area, as well as consider sending out parts to those here (I believe both of the previously mentioned individuals will do work on a "for hire" basis) who can accommodate your specific demands.

 

Also, remember, a "lifetime warranty" is only as good as the word of the shop/hardware manufacturer. If either or both goes belly-up, you're left holding on to a worthless piece of paper.

 

I would honestly invest in "better" hardware, rather than to count on such warranties.

 

Also, remember, HIDs are not going to be "insert and forget" deals. They do degrade over time - albeit, typically, a much longer burn-period than incandescent halogens.

[akscooby]

"Decent quality HID" is harder to come by. I would recommend that instead of pursuing retailers, that you contact, instead, our resident HID-retro gurus, mr_luv and MiniSTiGuy and the like, and get their input on what you should obtain, and from which retailer(s) you should seek such solutions from.

 

As for installation, check out the installer from your local area enthusiasts' recommendations. Just because they're "professional," doesn't necessarily mean they know what they're doing. This happens *much* more often than you'd think, and given the specialized knowledge that something such as an HID-retrofit (or even plug-and-play component install) demands, you should be sure your installer is truly as skilled as he says he is. [ To-wit, we speed-detection countermeasures hobbyists routinely see such knowledge/skill deficits in supposed "professional" installers. ] You should also consult your local hobbyists to see who can do the work, on a hobbyist/enthusiast basis, in your area, as well as consider sending out parts to those here (I believe both of the previously mentioned individuals will do work on a "for hire" basis) who can accommodate your specific demands.

 

Also, remember, a "lifetime warranty" is only as good as the word of the shop/hardware manufacturer. If either or both goes belly-up, you're left holding on to a worthless piece of paper.

 

I would honestly invest in "better" hardware, rather than to count on such warranties.

 

Done all of the above....and am using an installer known and recommended by many in my area on this forum and who is quite familiar with how to do Subies. I'm not one that does things idly or on a whim...in fact, you sound like me at times...I research the heck out of things before I make a decision, and I made my decisions based on that research. All good advice though, and appreciated.

[TSiWRX]

^ Good stuff! Keep us informed of things on your project!

[SubieDoobieDoo]

Hey, bottom line is: Your cars are YOUR cars. Last time I checked, this was still the United States of America, the land of the free and the home of the brave, so - staying within tests that do not defeat combustion engine emissions standards - let's not mess with clean air rules! - I say after that, you're STLL FREE to do what you want to with YOUR car.

 

Besides, the damned government has already intervened ENOUGH in my life - and yours! - and not always for OUR benefit, either - so screw 'em!

 

Break a rule! Question authority! Take automotive antiquity matters into your own hands when it comes to headlights and head-lighting.

 

I never read ANYWHERE that "D.O.T. approved" was the word of God - and that using NON-D.O.T. stuff sent you straight to Hell without passing "Go!" and collecting your 200 bucks.

 

If someone like Miss Tsi+WRX gets mad at people like ME for calling her out, that's good! They SHOULD get mad when they get caught talking down to others and coming across like pompous know-it-alls!

 

Rgds - happy motoring,

[TSiWRX]

^

 

Keep going with the personal insults, that's fine by me. I've got thick skin.

 

I love keeping this going, though, simply to see how many times you go back on your own arguments. Once more, I'll point to this, which you never really answered:

 

If so, there is at least ONE serious anal-retent on this forum who thinks people like you have made the most horrendous mistake possible with YOUR car (after all, if these are P-n-P HID "upgrades", you have installed non-DOT approved lighting modules!) and that you should be locked up and the key thrown away.

 

[ Aside -> Oh, and I forgot - to-wit: when have I ever paid all that much attention to legality? Have I always mentioned such concerns? Yes, certainly, because some here face more stringent regulations (be it enforcement, on-road, or at annual/semi-annual vehicle inspections) than others, and because some here are just more concerned about such issues, based on their own moral/ethical code (i.e. sebberry). Do I ever say that such concerns are wrong or right? No. I simply present all sides of the story, and let the end-user make his or her own educated judgement. I've done all sorts of modifications to my car that are not "by the books," and again, if you actually knew of my own participation on this Forum, you'll well know that I'm not-unknown in the world of speed-detection countermeasures..... so does that mess up your slanderous statements against me, just a little? BTW, unlike you, I don't advocate that people either obey or disobey any certain laws - be it emissions control or traffic-code related. That's their moral/ethical call to make, alone, and I simply present to them the available choices, and let them decide, for themselves, what's right. ]

 

To which, much earlier, he cited:

 

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!!!!!!

2, If your city, town, county, shire, state or nation require a "vehicle inspection" - normally done yearly to catch those with worn tyres, etc. - YOU WILL FAIL WITHOUT FUNCTONING HIGH BEAMS! Essentially, you might receive a "citation" - such as one gets for speeding - and in many areas, one must then prove to a magistrate or DOT (Department of Transportation) that the "repair" has been made.

 

Where *I* live, this means the vehicle must be "made right" by a certified mechanic - who will install the exact same headlight bulb the owner should have (or an upgraded "bulb") - and certify this on the sale receipt that this has been done - ONE CANNOT DO IT BY THEMSELVES - THEN the owner must appear and present the paperwork, THEN get the vehicle re-inspected .

 

Once more, I simply ask the following question - how would you reconcile what's highlighted, of what you'd written, highlighted in blue, with what you'd then written, later, highlighted in red?

 

How would one be able to "make right," given that the said "certified mechanic" would note that you, ScoobieDoobieDoo, do not have a proper DOT setup, on your particular plug-and-play (which, for those who are interested and reading this little side-circus of ours, is for a '98, which is a reflector/fresnel setup, not that of our BL/BP, for which a less-than-knowledgeable mechanic/inspector may pass-off as being "gee, is that OEM?"....no-one's going to mistake a reflector/fresnel setup for a DOT/SAE HID setup)?

 

Is your "certified mechanic" not so certified? Or is your inspections not all that you painted to be?

 

I never read ANYWHERE that "D.O.T. approved" was the word of God - and that using NON-D.O.T. stuff sent you straight to Hell without passing "Go!" and collecting your 200 bucks.

 

Are you so sure about this, given the second quote I took from you?

 

You said, there, yourself, that your vehicle must be "made right" - and that means via a "certified mechanic," with subsequent inspection that, by the logic of the sentence immediately prior, would require that "one must then prove to a magistrate or DOT (Department of Transportation) that the 'repair' has been made."

 

So what/which is it?

 

Buck the law, or do you have to do things by-the-book, to pass, in that very scenario above?

 

One minute you're telling us to go by the books. Another, you're telling us that we should just do what we want.

 

One moment you're saying that you've gotta play by the rules. The next, question all authority.

 

You tell us to do what we want, that it's our car - but you in-turn yell at others, for them, just jokingly, saying that they should, for all the light their HIDs are offering them, disable the high-beams?

 

How does any of your logic make *any* sense?

 

It's just like when you started out saying that your '98 GT had projectors, right? Or is it really a reflector/fresnel setup?

 

Forget the side stuff, ScoobieDoobieDoo, and just focus on the technical.

 

And, yet, that's, unfortunately, where things kinda fall apart......

 

And that's also where you go completely awry in your last argument:

 

If someone like Miss Tsi+WRX gets mad at people like ME for calling her out, that's good! They SHOULD get mad when they get caught talking down to others and coming across like pompous know-it-alls!

You've got it all backwards.

 

I've answered every question and refuted every mis-statement you've presented.

 

You're not the one calling me out, at all.

 

I may talk down to you - but that's only because I hate those who propagate false/incomplete information, and those who cannot present logical conclusions.

 

NEVER would I be that way to anyone in my life, or elsewhere in my life, be it on-line or in-person.

 

And NEVER would I say that I knew it all - go ahead, do a search here, dig as far and as deep as you want. You'll find that I constantly tell others of the shortcomings of my technical knowledge-base, as well as routinely thank others for educating me on things I either never knew, or for which my knowledge was out-dated and no longer correct.

 

Keep going with the personal attacks. I love it. I welcome it.

Edited September 22, 2008 by TSi+WRX

[MiniStiGuy]

umm thanks for the recommendation

 

As he stated feel free to ask me any questions.

 

I'm not gonna get involved in this never ending argument over legality etc...

 

Have a nice day!

[TSiWRX]

^ Free of charge!

 

Yep, there's no point getting involved over the legality aspect - there's never any good answers, as even enforcement is, most often, *not* "black and white."

 

It's why I simply choose to present both sides of the story, and let the end-user/vehicle-owner make his or her own educated, adult, decision.

[akscooby]

HID's are here...yay! Gotta wait until Monday for the install, though...that sucks.

[fishbone]

Still at this ???

SubieDoobieDoo, if this thread ever got scrapped, I think you'd have zero posts under your profile man. Just keep in mind that you are in a thread populated by folks that want to go the legal, propper way about their lighting needs. It's like going on a Dodge forum and praising how awesome Subaru is at every chance you get. If you'd like to talk about HID kits that's great, but this is just about the worst place to do that in. May I suggest you go over into a HID-related thread instead? Thanks!

And I think that goes for everyone else that want to justify and/or rave about their HIDs, you're just polluting this thread.

Edited September 24, 2008 by fishbone

[fishbone]

I know this has been already said probably 20 times already, but the OSRAM Rallye are the brightest possible halogen bulb. They are at the legal limit of 2100 lumens which, incidentally, is the amount your stock high beams should put out. The fact that they are filled with xenon gas makes these bulbs retain their original brightness for 90% of their lifetime rather than dimming gradually like regular halogens do. I was next to a ricer at a stop light that was sporting 6000k aftermarket hids. My halogens were actually brighter, not to mention they had the propper spread and beam pattern. When I yanked out my 5000k HID kit after a week and dropping these Rallyes in, the lighting difference was pretty small, I'd say no more than 20%, but the beam spread ... wow! The biggest difference was more in terms of color temperature. I love my Rallyes and I will pimp them at every chance I get. Edited September 24, 2008 by fishbone

[akscooby]

Says right on the Osram box: "Off-Road. Not approved for public roads. Not approved for use in Europe/USA."

 

Don't get all preachy about how "legal" they are, when they are self-admittedly not. They are great bulbs, though. I just wish they, and all H7's...would last longer, which is why I'm giving up on the endless bulb-changes and trying HID.

[SubLGTaru]

I've got the Osram Rallye H7 lows....had them since December. Have not had a problem with them. Still going strong, haven't burnt out. Nice and bright!

 

I also have the HIR bulbs that i purchased in December, same story on those.

 

Maybe others just have worse luck with their bulbs burning out??

 

[SubLGTaru]

I really am not concerned that they are "off road use only".

 

I've got flashed only a few times. For what it does on the road at night, the way they light up the road, they are worth it. I live in the country, so it is nice to have the HIR high beams on with the Rallye lows.

[akscooby]

I've tried a few different bulbs, and six months seems to be about the average life. Course, where I'm at it's either dark all the time or you have to have them on anyway by law on the highway, so they are basically always on, which might have something to do with it.

[MiniStiGuy]

no matter what bulb setup you go with please, please, please do an allignment for the lamps so that you get full utilization and you don't cause problems for oncoming drivers.

 

there is a sticky at the top of these forums with a write up on how to aim your headlamps.

[akscooby]

I'm having it done by one of our local Subie guys. He knows what he's doing from what I've heard. I'll make sure to remind him to align them so as not to blind on-coming traffic.

[TSiWRX]

Exactly - there's no strictly legal way to go about this.

 

The only bypass would be to use aftermarket auxiliary lighting, but even then, their legality would depend on your proper utilization.

 

no matter what bulb setup you go with please, please, please do an allignment for the lamps so that you get full utilization and you don't cause problems for oncoming drivers.

 

there is a sticky at the top of these forums with a write up on how to aim your headlamps.

 

+eleventybillion.

 

The best way to minimize oncoming glare, with the BL/BPs, is to properly align/aim. Even the slight increase in glare from an "improper" plug-and-play kit setup will be itself further minimized by careful alignment, and will render your setup completely Kosher, in all but the absolute letters of the law, and should not cause discomfort - or even undue distraction - to oncoming drivers.

[SubieDoobieDoo]

I just wish they, and all H7's...would last longer, which is why I'm giving up on the endless bulb-changes and trying HID.

I have been told - whether true or not - that all filament bulbs don't like the "jolt" of having the engine switched off as a source of de-energizing them. Or when RE-energizing them. That is, hit the light switch, THEN shut off the engine. Likewise, don't flip the headlights "on", then hit the engine ignition switch ...

 

For persons who tend to flip the ignition key to "off" and then think, "Oh yeah, better put the light switch into "off", too ..." this *might* be a something to consider. Whether or not this is just an old wives' tales is up to you I guess.

 

Again, this is what I've always been told. People who do this *do* seem to have longer bulb life - co-incidence or not.

 

When my wife drove our Sube a lot more, she NEVER switched the lights off with the actual turn-lever stalk-switch because (her reasoning) they went off with the engine ignition switch anyway. Looking back - I keep a log of such matters along with oil changes, etc. - we were replacing the standard 9007 bulbs like they were free ... something like 3 or 4 a year. I always replace in pairs so that meant buying 3 or 4 PAIR of 9007 bulbs ... Ouch!

 

For these newer, brighter, whiter, MORE EXPENSIVE halogen bulbs, doing whatever you can to make them last longer seems like a good idea, no?

 

As with ALL suggestions and comments, "YMMV".

 

Rgds,

[akscooby]

My wife does tend to leave everything on when she turns the car off. Always been a little pet peeve of mine, but never said much about it. I turn everything off...even the radio. On those cold Alaska mornings, I figure the battery needs all the extra power it can get to crank. Ok, I leave the heat on, but it's on auto so it doesn't turn up until the engine temp goes up. Auto-start is a beautiful thing when it's -25 out......

[SubiGT]

My wife does tend to leave everything on when she turns the car off. Always been a little pet peeve of mine, but never said much about it. I turn everything off...even the radio. On those cold Alaska mornings, I figure the battery needs all the extra power it can get to crank. Ok, I leave the heat on, but it's on auto so it doesn't turn up until the engine temp goes up. Auto-start is a beautiful thing when it's -25 out......

Auto start with the 5mt? Does it (teh auto start module) have a clutch interlock, or are you just really careful?

[akscooby]

Auto start with the 5mt? Does it (teh auto start module) have a clutch interlock, or are you just really careful?

 

Not sure what it's called, but it's got little magnetic sensors that automatically check to see if the tranny is in neutral or it won't even try to start. Works really well, actually, but it's a bit more expensive to install then on an auto.

[SubiGT]

^^^Cool. Remember the brand name? Might have to find me one of those....

[akscooby]

It's a Scosche. I don't think they do autostarts anymore, but they were identical to Compustar. Check here:

 

http://www.compustar.com/main.htm

[akscooby]

Partly, yes. They have to put a chipped and clipped key under the steering column to over-ride the built-in security in order to start the car. If someone gets that far in breaking in and somehow starting the car though, they've already done some significant damage, and that's why I have full-coverage insurance. However, the second part of the immobilizer is having the ignition on, which still takes a key to do. So, part of the immobilizer still works...you can't just jump in an auto-started car and drive off. It'll still die without a key in the ignition and the ignition on. Trust me, mines died numerous times backing down the driveway when I've forgotten to put the key in....

[fishbone]

Says right on the Osram box: "Off-Road. Not approved for public roads. Not approved for use in Europe/USA."

 

Don't get all preachy about how "legal" they are, when they are self-admittedly not. They are great bulbs, though. I just wish they, and all H7's...would last longer, which is why I'm giving up on the endless bulb-changes and trying HID.

Right, but the thread doesn't revolve about OSRAM's offering. The others are all legal. Even the OSRAMs are a heck of a lot better than HID kits and I don't think I need to get into the why.

 

As far as the longevity of the halogens, I'd make sure you disabled DRL, it's the single most significant source of abuse. Turning them on and off all the damn time will burn them out quick.

Edited September 26, 2008 by fishbone