Mines Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 pm apexjapan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian. Posted April 14, 2006 Author Share Posted April 14, 2006 pm apexjapan PM sent. Thanks for the direction, Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 Christian - PM'ed you - Paul isn't the guy you need at AVO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedNeeder Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 my opinion is the 20G would make more sense, those looking for good spool characteristics would be fine going off with a custom stage II tune + turboback giving them 250-275whp or close to it a 18G sounds like a nice upgrade but with marginal benefits over stock Please define 'marginal', as I thought the 18G would be nice upgrade for daily driving. My other car is a 1993 Chevy S-10 Tahoe! (Currently being driven to failure by my nephew) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian. Posted April 15, 2006 Author Share Posted April 15, 2006 The 18G would be a great upgrade for daily driving IMO. The 18G has marginal airflow over the VF39, but the upgrade from the VF40 is significant. Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidm_sh Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Just my $0.02 based on personal experience. I have tried 05H-18G and 06H-20G both internally wastegated on my 04 STi. The 05H is a bit of a small turbine wheel BUT that turbine wheel will NOT boost creep like the 06H turbine in the standard 7cm2 exhaust housing. I mean yes this is a heated argument and you can do x, y and z where x = 'custom exhaust housing porting', y = 'custom/larger ported IWG', and z = 'any 1 of a 1000 different exhaust setups that will provide a-z range of backpressure'. Bottom line if you go with a 06H turbine wheel in a 20g compressor (don't know about a 06H wheel with a 18G compressor but I would guess it's the same since 18G isn't significantly larger than the 20G) the variability of boost control (Read potential of boost creep) seems to large to do on a mass basis reliably. IMHO if Cobb wanted a 'safe bet' turbo it would be a TD05H-18g. It is a significant upgrade on both the compressor side and turbine side over the VF-40. Maybe even just a 06-18G - slightly smaller turbine wheel than 06H but larger than the 05H [shrug]. The nice thing about the good old 2.0L wrx days was a 'decent turbo upgrade' was a VFxx turbo over the stock TD04L based turbo. And the nice thing about those turbos, from a tuners point of view is they were VERY VERY consistent in terms of controlling the boost on them. They were not as susceptable to boost creep issues like the aftermarket Mitsu based turbos that we have today like the 05/06/H-16/18/20G turbos. Plus since all these mitsu based turbos are more custom the customers can get them with a range of options like Christian pointed out in terms of various porting, coating and most importantly different wastegate spring rates. It's hard to have your cake and eat it to. Meaning when you get to power levels of 18-20psi on a 20G based compressor turbo it's hard to get a consistent and safe solution for the masses. There are trade-offs when you get to that 'custom setup' power level that can't quite be accounted for. I guess if Cobb said this map is only safe with a VERY specific turbo and this exact exhaust system (particular brand with/without a cat), etc it might work but ... [shrug]. I seriously wish Cobb tuning the best luck with this endevour however since it is SORELY needed in the subaru community. A nice 'package' that takes the customer beyond the stock turbo for the 2.5L Subarus. Big KUDOS to Cobb for that!! But again just my $0.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 True, but cobb is not limited to the Mitsubishi Turbos. Personally I would like to see some garrett cores used. The 18g would be good to use for a STG III setup I dont think its a big enough step to call it a stg IV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warnoldscu Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 ... I always thought stage 2 was tuning on a stock turbo and stage 3 was an upgraded turbo. Stage 4 = like internals and stuff... no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainmorgan Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 I think that the variability in the number of injector choices and within each of those, the custom numbers for the scaling of the injectors would be more crucial than the turbo. I can slap a 20g in the car right now and it will start and run (albeit pretty crappy) but if I swap the injectors out (which you would have to do with a 20g, along with a fuel pump, and possibly tweak the regulator) and dont apply the proper scaling to their size, the car will die, run ultra rich, or just about anything else you could think of that could go wrong. Running bigger power adders on canned maps doesn't sound like such a good idea to me. I think its good for a starting point to get to a Protune though. I'm sure that Cobb knows a hell of a lot more than me, since I'm just talking out my rear at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnAWD Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 I vote 20g or similar, as that'll probably be the direction I go if/when I start down the horsepower road. I had good results with a td05 20g on one of my DSMs, and even on that 2 litre motor boost lag wasn't so bad. With the add'l .5 litre this motor has it'd start spooling just that much sooner. Td06? Yes please, but I'll go with an external wg. Or even better would be a garret part which flows around what the 20g does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 STG IV for the WRX has traditionally been: Turbo, Injectors, FUel Pump The WRX community somehow just skipped over Stage III. As there is no real stage III kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian. Posted April 15, 2006 Author Share Posted April 15, 2006 Td06? Yes please, but I'll go with an external wg. Or even better would be a garret part which flows around what the 20g does. The turbo will not have an external wastegate, this would add complication to this upgrade and is not necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagcars26 Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 My pick would be the 18g,,a damn good upgrade from the 40 fr most people.IMO almost all of the cars here are daily or shared drivers and the 20 mite be a bit much. My wife drives my stg 2 wagon on occasion and I dont need anymore drama if I move up in power/boost:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidm_sh Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 I had good results with a td05 20g on one of my DSMs, and even on that 2 litre motor boost lag wasn't so bad. With the add'l .5 litre this motor has it'd start spooling just that much sooner. Sorry quick off topic. You only had the 05H turbine on that 20G in your DSM when you ran a 12.2@112 at Bandi was it? WOW. I thought you had at least a 06 or 06H turbine in that 20g for those numbers. What was your curb weight that night do you remember? [/hijack] =). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warnoldscu Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Yeah, I didn't think about it, but if the turbo upgrade is too big, then there is going to be too much variety to what people do with injectors, etc... so they're probably going to be likely to simply get a Protune. As far as using the Cobb tune as a base to break the turbo in... I guess that's nice but probably not what Cobb is looking to do. Most good protuners will simply email you a "safe" map to use while you're breaking the turbo in anyway. Maybe something like the 05H or 06H 18g would be a good idea since they are more likely to not need as intense of upgrades to support them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Well As long as people can standardize its not a problem. Stg IV for the WRX is: Larger Turbo VF30 or 34 STi pink injectors Walbro Fuel Pump Everybody and thier mamas mamas have been using this standard for the STG IV WRX. There is no reason why It cant be done for the LGT on a larger scale to reflect the capability of the EJ25x All you need is to design a standard turbo that has some boost control consistency and you are all set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 huh.. now theres a good idea.. See what works well and is consistent on an STI (which should be pretty easy to do since its been out for a while) and just make a kit for Legacy that is real similar, just with a turbo that would fit with the LGT TMIC. On paper, that seems fairly easy enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showbo Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 I agree with most. 18g or 20g. But the map should include a larger TMIC...not the stocker. Im one of those person's that the closest protuner (tuner at all) is about a 8 hour drive away! I would love to see this map for cobb...i would buy what i needed to run it in a heart beat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 just some thoughts with previous Cobb stage 2+ maps pink injectors +a $100 fuel pump have been the only fuel system requirement with the LGT you get the funny in tank fuel filter setup for which there are few options and the variability if some one tries to modify injectors by themselves two the stock intercooler has issues coming apart over 18 psi releasing the map alone may be asking for troublesince the turbo is only supplied by one vendor a complete kit of turbo+injectors+fuel pump+top mount+-exhaust seems more to fit flame suit on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian. Posted May 1, 2006 Author Share Posted May 1, 2006 I wanted to give you an update on this. It appears as if AVO is willing to work with us on getting a package & AccessPORT calibration put together. Now I need to ask what are the exact parts that you would like the AVO calibration developed for? My understanding is that they have a replacement TMIC and are coming out with a new direct replacement turbo? I have enough information on fuel injector upgrades since I have been testing them with the STi ECUs. Let me know what you guys are looking for and I will start to work with AVO on this. Take care, Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcbjr Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Stock intake, cheap/reliable/easy to source injectors, AVO pump, a >=15psi wastegate actuator, catted setup (reduce creep if its an issue), high-flowing t/fmic, 20Gish power. That's my preference. I forgot what I was supposed to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekdut Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Okay, if you're going the AVO route: AVO 400L + AVO TMIC, on top of the usual Stage 2+ bits (full length DP, UP, catback) I personally would like to avoid any fuel mods if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Okay, if you're going the AVO route: AVO 400L + AVO TMIC, on top of the usual Stage 2+ bits (full length DP, UP, catback) I personally would like to avoid any fuel mods if possible. I like that route too. We have to get some initial numbers first though. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selds Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 and prices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian. Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 Okay, if you're going the AVO route: AVO 400L + AVO TMIC, on top of the usual Stage 2+ bits (full length DP, UP, catback) I personally would like to avoid any fuel mods if possible. Is the 400L a direct bolt on for the LGT? All I can see from the AVO and Rallitek web sites are the TMIC and actuator upgrades...not bolt-on turbos on the web site. I agree about that a turbo back or at least a DP and mufflers will be necessary. Fuel mods will all depend on how much power the 400L is capable of. Please keep the feedback coming. I need to provide a parts list to AVO so they can get the parts coming from Japan. Take care, Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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