BOXRPWR Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Who says the DB 20G is too laggy for a daily driver.......... http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/BOXRPWR/ProTune91Octmap.jpg ProTuned, 91 Octane Cal gas 20 psi tappering to 18 psi Supporting mods: FMIC PE850 injectors AVO Fuel pump Perrin fuel rails lots of goodies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian. Posted April 11, 2006 Author Share Posted April 11, 2006 I'd rather you had a functional 05 GT 5EAT revert to stock map that didn't light up my dash like a Xmas tree. We are currently working on this solution. Although, I would greatly appreciate it if we stuck on topic with this thread. I can address any other concerns, questions, or issues you may have through another thread, PM, e-mail, or phone call. I am not getting defensive nor do I intend to offend you, but I would like to keep this thread on subject. Thanks, Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsalicru Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 IMO, having driven BOXRPWRs car.. 20G isn't laggy at all... Also, although I do understand your statement sandwood, the fact is that the 20G is still a better option. It might not seem so obvious on the LGT since we start with 250 at the flywheel.. but.. notice how many STi owners choose the 18G. I don't know of a single one, reason being that they don't offer much if anything beyond what a stock VF39 or a 34 can already offer. "some say, his arms are made of coiled adamantium fibers. And that he tops his cereal with nuts and bolts. All we know is, he's called the Jose." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firedawgs Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 How about 40T and 50T maps? Updated my vBGarage: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian. Posted April 12, 2006 Author Share Posted April 12, 2006 How about 40T and 50T maps? I am not familiar with these turbos...please point me in the right direction. The turbo decision is still not set in stone, but I think the 18G & T28 are a good option. I think the SZ and colored turbos are just too big for this goal. The DB turbos seem to offer too many different configurations, this is something that will affect the consistency of the calibration's performance. We need to avoid this. This is not bashing them, just stating facts. Anything ported by hand and coatings can be inconsistent (depending on how they are applied, cured, etc.)...oil lubricated w & w/o water cooling, etc. These are too many variables to try to tune a for a consistent map. Take care, Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgt Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I dono, that DB 20G on BOXRPWR's car takes almost an extra 1000rpm to make more power than my car with the stock turbo. Thats a good amount of extra lag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eHoward Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I'd like to see a map for the GT30R. I think that would be the proper sized turbo for a 2.5L engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacy2005 Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 just because a company can port a turbo doesnt mean you have to buy it like that. you could specify which turbo (18g/20g) unported, coated/uncoated...etc. your the one making the map. hence you will have the final call on what you tune for. the same will go for injectors, some flow better then others and the spray on some is different then others. no matter what you tune for im sure there will be plenty of us that jump on the chance to go larger turbo. especially since we can run the map you made, instead of having to factor in the additional cost of a protune into the amount spent on a turbo swap. Work hard. Play even harder. My Garage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-gorithm Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 18G and 20g LGT style... Do it like you did the WRX and keep with direct swap turbos commonly used. I don't think most will go to a FMIC or intake swap. People who get those should get a custom tune. It's a good start anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcbjr Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 If you want quality controlled non-rotated turbos and dont want to stay stock LGT style, wait for Helix'es RR500, IMO. Just to add, thanks Christian and Cobb for stepping up to the plate for us. I forgot what I was supposed to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhesketh Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highwaydrifter Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 T72 For The Win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedNeeder Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 My other car is a 1993 Chevy S-10 Tahoe! (Currently being driven to failure by my nephew) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOXRPWR Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I dono, that DB 20G on BOXRPWR's car takes almost an extra 1000rpm to make more power than my car with the stock turbo. Thats a good amount of extra lag. I don't mean to get defensive and I know that Christian wants to stay on topic, but I wanted to address this comment. Sure, the curves are indicative of more turbo lag, but what you cant readily appreciate is the rate of rpm change. My setup boosts rapidly and thus the rpms build much more rapidly than stock. The feeling is noticably different than riding in a setup with a GT30 or GT35 for instance. Those are MONSTER turbos with fantastic power numbers but the delay in butt sliding acceleration is more distinct. I realize that getting a ride is the only real way to fully appreciate what I'm talking about. Ask Jose (jsalicru). He's recently rode in a very sweet STI with a kickass rotated GT30 setup for comparison to mine. He told me the turbo lag effect is quite a bit more noticable. Of course, the "holy shit" factor is too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firedawgs Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Christian the 40T and 50T are momentum turbos. http://www.momentumturbos.com/products2.html Updated my vBGarage: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDC Tuning Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Well christian and i disccussed this today The idea is an LGT style turbo that leaves out, vf's, any momentum (which are ONLY available as 40t unless i can get a 50T) and any other STI style turbo for that matter Christian wants to make a map for turbo that ANYONE can bolt on wherever , Cali , canada, florida, NH etc and have good results, and not have an issue. I already told him a 20G is the best idea, problem with that is deabolts TD06 7cm creep, creep creep. (trust me on that one) The 18G is nice for a street turbo, scans car is already makin good power on 18 psi (311 whp par tuned) spools fast too, but the 20G spools very similar. TDC Tunings LGT Forum Cobb, Perrin, APS, Invidia, Megan racing and MORE!! Your #1 source For Subaru / Legacy GT performance parts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOXRPWR Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 yeah, fought boost creep during the early tuning efforts with my DB20G. But the problem was overcome with a stronger WG actuator and a catted DP to provide a bit more backpressure. using a MBC holds it rock steady at whatever boost pressure I wish to dial in from 18 psi up to 25 psi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDC Tuning Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 s'ok for me i have a .64 a/r 20G goin on mine it MAY be LGT fit too i gotta see waht its gonna take to adapt the compressor housing Ill keep christian in the loop too, its not like i tont bother him every day anyway, and vice versa. LOL TDC Tunings LGT Forum Cobb, Perrin, APS, Invidia, Megan racing and MORE!! Your #1 source For Subaru / Legacy GT performance parts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgt Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I don't mean to get defensive and I know that Christian wants to stay on topic, but I wanted to address this comment. Sure, the curves are indicative of more turbo lag, but what you cant readily appreciate is the rate of rpm change. My setup boosts rapidly and thus the rpms build much more rapidly than stock. The feeling is noticably different than riding in a setup with a GT30 or GT35 for instance. Those are MONSTER turbos with fantastic power numbers but the delay in butt sliding acceleration is more distinct. I realize that getting a ride is the only real way to fully appreciate what I'm talking about. Ask Jose (jsalicru). He's recently rode in a very sweet STI with a kickass rotated GT30 setup for comparison to mine. He told me the turbo lag effect is quite a bit more noticable. Of course, the "holy shit" factor is too! I understand what you are saying. It would be nice if you were closer so that I could see in person. Maybe next time I get out your way I can hit you up for a ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 20G is the only Mitsu based turbo mentioned so far that stays in its efficency range with a 2.5 liter at 18-20 PSI. I dont think its worth it going any smaller as it will only produce modestly more than stock. The 20G also puts out less heat than the smaller units and thus will be more consistent to tune as IC effficency changes. Im sure COBB is fully aware of how to modify the stock injectors to flow 816CC. This would be a very easy and profitable proposition as all it requires is a good endmill and endmill operator. The 20G also leaves room for expansion which could drive the Protuner market. IE. Sombody buys a cobb stage IV 20g LGT decides he wants a more agressive tune he drives to his local protuner and gets it done. It makes it worth while because the turbo still has more power under its belt. If you go any smaller what incentive is there for people to go and get a protune? The 20g will also allow you to hit the magical 300 WHP number with a VERY conservative tune and minimal additional equipment required. This is great for marketing. Smaller IHI, or mitsu, wont allow this without somewhat more agressive tunes. If you are building your own turbo there is a demand for garrett based cores that flow similarly to the 20G. A very simple package to put together would be as follows: Cobb Stg IV. LGT specific Mitsubishi TD06-20g $?? Cobb Modified 816cc injectors $200+ Core Charge Kenne Bell Boost-A-Pump: http://www.kennebell.net/accessories/boostapump/boostapump.htm COBB STG IV shelf map You have a complete 20g setup complete with fuel system upgrades for essentialy the same cost as a WRX STGIV setup. Furthermore a 20G setup would be more likely to attract the attention and spin off into an STi upgrade as most people wont bother with 16, 18G ect upgrages as they don't produce much more on a conservative tune than a VF39. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VXCL Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 just when i think i would not mod my car anymore some has to com eand make it even easier. wtf!!!!! i say 20g. MAYHEM #122/22 STS NNJR SCCA AUTOX4U.COM XENON RETRO GUIDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcbjr Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 A lot of good info I feel the same way. From a marketing point of view, this is the best approach. The consumers want this. As a #5(I think) Cobb customer (RS-T), this is a good thing. I forgot what I was supposed to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warnoldscu Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Has there been any mention of a TD05 20G? I don't know if they have the same boost creep issues or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepin gt Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Honestly, I like the DB TD06-18G w/ 7cm housing for an off-the-shelf map. It works with the fewest mods (stock injectors, tmic, catback) It has very noticeable gains in hp and tq (280/300 on our dyno) It's not laggy (well, not to me - i don't drive a vf40 everyday ) It could be tuned w/ proper safety margin for an OTS 91 octane map 20G requires to many mods for an OTS setup on a legacy and it pushes deeper into the 91 octane fuel. My $.02 Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mines Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I think the avo one would be nice http://www.avoturbo.com/pdf/avo_subaru_ad.pdf (scroll down the page) They are supposed to arrive after easter, according to sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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