jsalicru Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 sweet, a AVO turbo.. nothing will trying to put a kit together on unecessarily expensive turbos that have not been proven on the LGT. "some say, his arms are made of coiled adamantium fibers. And that he tops his cereal with nuts and bolts. All we know is, he's called the Jose." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian. Posted May 4, 2006 Author Share Posted May 4, 2006 sweet, a AVO turbo.. nothing will trying to put a kit together on unecessarily expensive turbos that have not been proven on the LGT. Ya, that is exactly what I was looking to do. Double We want to provide calibrations for what you, then end users wanted, and this is what was initially suggested. We do have very specific standards that we will follow. Please kindly suggest another combination and we will take that into consideration. We do not make the decisions, you do...that is why I started this post with an "open discussion". Take care, Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Thanks for the heads up. AVO has been responding so it appears as if we are working on the following parts for this calibration: - AVO 400L direct bolt-on turbo, internal wastegate and actuator included - AVO TMIC - Turbo-back exhaust system - Stock vehicle otherwise I will be sure to keep you all updated. Take care, Christian. stock injectors??? and stock 180l/ph fuel pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 I think many of the people posting (hard-core Subaru nuts) really want a bigger turbo option, like 20G, but in the long run I believe that the majority of people that will pay don't mind the extra for a LGT set-up vs doing an STI swap. I vote for the AVO 400L again!!!! Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsalicru Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Ya, that is exactly what I was looking to do. Double We want to provide calibrations for what you, then end users wanted, and this is what was initially suggested. We do have very specific standards that we will follow. Please kindly suggest another combination and we will take that into consideration. We do not make the decisions, you do...that is why I started this post with an "open discussion". Take care, Christian. Christian, I appreciate your response. The issue that I have with the AVO choice is choosing a JDM company and their products.. which are overpriced since they must be shipped from Japan. In addition, their turbos are unproven for the LGT from the extremely limited testing they've had. We have still yet to see a proper plot of the AVO450 on the LGT, for example. A particular user on this board asked repeatedly to see 2.5L AVO450 plots without any results, hence the reason I call this an unproven setup. In addition, any issues with the turbo and there's a possibility your car will be out of commision for a while considering that you have to deal with a company that is overseas. By all means I am not trying to get things to sway to DBs corner, however, I think if choosing AVO turbos is the choice being explored then their turbos should be properly tested before deciding to use them in your project. With that being said, it simply sucks that our options are quite limited with regards to using a setup that is compatible with the LGT TMIC. "some say, his arms are made of coiled adamantium fibers. And that he tops his cereal with nuts and bolts. All we know is, he's called the Jose." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsalicru Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 I think many of the people posting (hard-core Subaru nuts) really want a bigger turbo option, like 20G, but in the long run I believe that the majority of people that will pay don't mind the extra for a LGT set-up vs doing an STI swap. I vote for the AVO 400L again!!!! 20G is not big by all means... trust me, having driven a LGT equipped with it, its a properly sized turbo for the 2.5... If we all had EJ20s, then it'd be a different story. Saying that a 20G is big reminds me of the 1.8T owners in VWVortex that thought a K04 upgrade was great and big "Oh no, I will loose my 2,000rpm boost response!" a BIG turbo on a LGT would be: GT30 (it actually has restrictions up top so its still not HUGE, just BIG), SZ49 (slightly big) and anything beyond this... "some say, his arms are made of coiled adamantium fibers. And that he tops his cereal with nuts and bolts. All we know is, he's called the Jose." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixMrx2 Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 .... I disagree with with jsalicru about the GT30 being a big turbo, BUT everything else ::thumbs up:: ... I belive the GT30 is perfect for the LGT with it's huge 2.5L. The TD06-20G is known in the 2.0L world as a very powerful, fairly quick spooling turbo. I see the 20G as being slightly small for the 2.5L and about right for a 2.0L... Look at the flow charts etc. I really think the 20G is small for the LGT and would be a fast spooler (3K rpm or sooner) We see 14+psi on a 2.0 3sgte @ 3500rpm. 3200rpm with a 2.2L stroked motor. Natrually I'm talking about using a proper setup (open exhaust, fully tuned etc etc) I think a GT3071 would be perfect for the LGT and spool about 400-ish rpms later than the 20G if you have it setup right. I'd guess you would feel the serious pull hit about 3500-3750 rpm. Not to laggy considering the power you could be making. But regardless. I do vote 20G, it seems to be the better option price and function wise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJMC Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 No one likes the 18g? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 18g is actually less efficent at the pressure ratios that most of us will run than a BIG 16g. IE: EVO3-16g, Super 16g, BIG 16g. The reason why Subaru is so friggin behind mitsubishi in the bolt on power department is because we have old neglected 1970's technoloogy era turbochargers that are both slow spooling and inefficent. Even the 18 and 20G turbos we are drooling over are over 20 years outdated. The EVO 8 and 9 16G turbos are a work of art. They spool super fast and offer flow capacities MUCH greater than similarly sized out of date subaru turbo. This is a MODERN turbo. I must agree with some of the other comments here... $2000 is WAY too much for an unproven bolt on turbo. For $2000 Cobb could build us a rotated mount kit with a MODERN and STATE OF THE ART GENUINE Garrett Disco Potato or a GT30R. Seriously though. GT28RS "Disco Potato" turbos will offer spool faster than stock and produce around 320 WHP if tuned right. This turbo was described and designed by garrett to make superchargers look slow. If you search NASIOC you will find that on a 2.0 liter WRX the disco potato spools just as fast as stock with the mitsu tdo4 Id say subaru really screwed some of us by using a completely diffrent induction path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckrieg Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 I think the AVO route is too much for the next stage. But I think if you did the 20G now, and then another map for the AVO or gt30 (or something big and expensive lol) with a FMIC that'd be a wicked idea because then you could appeal to all markets. You have stage 2 for the small guys who just want a little more kick, the 20G for people who want to be able to hold their own dragging and autox, and then the avo or gt30 which will rip shit up! But I like the idea of the 20G with a conservative map because then as others have said, you can always get a pro tune, or upgrade fuel pump or FMIC and get more power without changing the turbo again. "Go big or go home!" lol. I look at it like swapping engines. If your already going to put out the cash to do the swap, get the motor mounts etc, why not spend the extra $1000 and get an engine that is really gonna make a BIG difference. Ofcourse this is all relative, when talking engine swap were already looking at about $3000 (for a honda anyways). But paying twice as much, I dont know if I could justify that. I'd REALLY be on the fence if it was an 18g, because then, I would do all the upgrades, and buy a turbo, that'd I'd prolly end up wanting to replace in 6 months because I couldn't get anymore power out of it. I vote 20G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 GT28RS "Disco Potato" turbos will offer spool faster than stock and produce around 320 WHP if tuned right. This turbo was described and designed by garrett to make superchargers look slow. Big depends on the users idea of big. I would love to hear more about the above set-up though. I think many of us are not willing to accept ANY increase in lag. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckrieg Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 meh, I dont really care about lag...I kinda like lag, cuz it really gives that WOW effect...have you ever ridden in a wrx with a vf34 cobb setup? it feels WAY faster than an sti with cobb stg. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsalicru Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 .... I disagree with with jsalicru about the GT30 being a big turbo, BUT everything else ::thumbs up:: ... I belive the GT30 is perfect for the LGT with it's huge 2.5L. The TD06-20G is known in the 2.0L world as a very powerful, fairly quick spooling turbo. I see the 20G as being slightly small for the 2.5L and about right for a 2.0L... Look at the flow charts etc. I really think the 20G is small for the LGT and would be a fast spooler (3K rpm or sooner) We see 14+psi on a 2.0 3sgte @ 3500rpm. 3200rpm with a 2.2L stroked motor. Natrually I'm talking about using a proper setup (open exhaust, fully tuned etc etc) I think a GT3071 would be perfect for the LGT and spool about 400-ish rpms later than the 20G if you have it setup right. I'd guess you would feel the serious pull hit about 3500-3750 rpm. Not to laggy considering the power you could be making. But regardless. I do vote 20G, it seems to be the better option price and function wise... GT3071 would be very nicely sized for the 2.5L I agree. It would provide the adequate flow up top that the GT30 .63A/R lacks. However, I still believe this turbo is too big for most of the people looking at turbos. Would I run the GT30 or a GT3071? You bet. I can live with the slight lag of the GT30. Full spool ~ 3500-3800. However, something that big isn't the type of thing that Cobb would be looking for. They want something that would be a fair, conservative choice that can make the most people happy. The fact that a 20G fits the bill really well when plotted against a 2.5L solidifies this concept for me. Also, this is a Legacy, and people are not willing to deal with many of the compromises that a bigger turbo brings. In the case of the GT series, noise can be an issue. Those are some LOUD turbos. I personally like that, but Im sure SOME would be turned off by it since you really loose ANY sense of sleeperness with it. Either way, due to cost restrictions, we shouldn't even talk about GT series turbos in this thread. "some say, his arms are made of coiled adamantium fibers. And that he tops his cereal with nuts and bolts. All we know is, he's called the Jose." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixMrx2 Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 GT3071 would be very nicely sized for the 2.5L I agree. It would provide the adequate flow up top that the GT30 .63A/R lacks. However, I still believe this turbo is too big for most of the people looking at turbos. Would I run the GT30 or a GT3071? You bet. I can live with the slight lag of the GT30. Full spool ~ 3500-3800. However, something that big isn't the type of thing that Cobb would be looking for. They want something that would be a fair, conservative choice that can make the most people happy. The fact that a 20G fits the bill really well when plotted against a 2.5L solidifies this concept for me. Also, this is a Legacy, and people are not willing to deal with many of the compromises that a bigger turbo brings. In the case of the GT series, noise can be an issue. Those are some LOUD turbos. I personally like that, but Im sure SOME would be turned off by it since you really loose ANY sense of sleeperness with it. Either way, due to cost restrictions, we shouldn't even talk about GT series turbos in this thread. Agree'd.... I'm all for the 20G though, I think it is what Cobb needs to use for this "stage IV" map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckrieg Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Has a final decision been made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckrieg Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcbjr Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Helix RR500 is almost out. I forgot what I was supposed to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julio Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 GT30 is perfect for the LGT. It will make 350-400whp easy without sacrifcing turbo spool that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcbjr Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 GT30® Rotated mounts cost a heck of a lot more. And a GT30/35R non-rotated is a waste of money. I forgot what I was supposed to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian. Posted August 28, 2006 Author Share Posted August 28, 2006 Has a final decision been made? Not yet, the idea is to have a stock bolt-on replacement turbo. A GT30R is going to be too large and will cost too much IMO. We were working with AVO but they have not released a turbo for the LGT yet and they have not followed up with us . I am thinking more along the lines of 18G, great spool, out flows a VF39 on the top end. A 20G would work as well, but we just need to complete additional testing. We received some injectors in from Deatschwerks that flow 740cc which should be ideal. I will let you know how things are coming along, but for right now we are still developing our FMIC and we have yet to secure a turbo that everyone (not really, since that is not possible ) is happy with. Take care, Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julio Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 GT30R can make 400+whp. Actually a few in the 500whp. 2.0L WRXs and some STis. I really beleive the 18G while not the "most venerable" replacement turbo, is a very nice turbo for what you are looking to do Christian. If in the long-run, you would like to try another setup, perhaps rotated... the GT30R would be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Rallitek has 4 AVO400s in stock right now. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM-STI Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 While the 18G is a nice replacement for the VF40, I think that if I were to do a turbo upgrade on the Leggy, a 20G would be the only one between the two (18G and 20G) that I would consider. There is just so much more to gain for about the same amount of money spent. IMHO. I have ridden in many STI's with many different turbo set ups as well as a few Leggy's and the 20G cars seem to be the best match to the 2.5L with TMIC. Of course when you start going FMIC and meth, etc, bigger gets better. I abosolutely love my FP Red/Meth on my STI. But for the wife's Leggy, a 20G will be the only replacement if any. Not yet, the idea is to have a stock bolt-on replacement turbo. A GT30R is going to be too large and will cost too much IMO. We were working with AVO but they have not released a turbo for the LGT yet and they have not followed up with us . I am thinking more along the lines of 18G, great spool, out flows a VF39 on the top end. A 20G would work as well, but we just need to complete additional testing. We received some injectors in from Deatschwerks that flow 740cc which should be ideal. I will let you know how things are coming along, but for right now we are still developing our FMIC and we have yet to secure a turbo that everyone (not really, since that is not possible ) is happy with. Take care, Christian. 05 STI CGM~520whp/463wtq...more to come! 08 STI Aspen White/Gold BBS~305whp/365wtq:D Both tuned by Scott Siegel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTGT Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 I'm all for a direct bolt on for our leggys. SInce you are developing a fmic would that mean this upgraded system would be designed for fmic's not tmics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDC Tuning Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 I'm all for a direct bolt on for our leggys. SInce you are developing a fmic would that mean this upgraded system would be designed for fmic's not tmics? a cobb FMIC kit probably wont be available anytime soon TDC Tunings LGT Forum Cobb, Perrin, APS, Invidia, Megan racing and MORE!! Your #1 source For Subaru / Legacy GT performance parts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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