SUBE555 Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 That truly makes no sense on how you describe that. I know people keep saying they're on the same platform, it's just altered A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H..... ways to accomodate the other vehicle model. I'm sorry, but there are too many differences, at least between the newer Legacy platforms that are now based on multilink rear suspensions (BE/BH & BL/BP) to share the resemblence in my opinion to the same platform. Now I would be very comfortable saying they share the same design methodology for creating a safe chassis that is strong, but I still don't agree about the overall structure being the same. When a significant (greater than half) amount of the stampings are different between each platform, I would say they are a different platform and that is what I really suspect. The Legacy and Outback are clearly on the same platform, I can even kinda see the stubby B9 similarities with the Legacy and Outback chassis, but the Impreza is just that much different. I work for a large truck manufacturer, but just because we try to use commonality for our cabs and much of our hardware to reduce required supplies. It's only smart practice to continue using a piece of hardware like door hinges if they work good and there isn't a better solution that's cost effective to be had. Back talking bout them 2007 Legacys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 That truly makes no sense on how you describe that. I know people keep saying they're on the same platform, it's just altered A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H..... ways to accomodate the other vehicle model. I'm sorry, but there are too many differences, at least between the newer Legacy platforms that are now based on multilink rear suspensions (BE/BH & BL/BP) to share the resemblence in my opinion to the same platform. Now I would be very comfortable saying they share the same design methodology for creating a safe chassis that is strong, but I still don't agree about the overall structure being the same. When a significant (greater than half) amount of the stampings are different between each platform, I would say they are a different platform and that is what I really suspect. The Legacy and Outback are clearly on the same platform, I can even kinda see the stubby B9 similarities with the Legacy and Outback chassis, but the Impreza is just that much different. I work for a large truck manufacturer, but just because we try to use commonality for our cabs and much of our hardware to reduce required supplies. It's only smart practice to continue using a piece of hardware like door hinges if they work good and there isn't a better solution that's cost effective to be had. Back talking bout them 2007 Legacys. The current Impreza is based on an iteration of the previous legacy. The impreza has always been that way. the 2008 Impreza will just be bringing it up to date with the current Legacy platform. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 The only differences between a frameless vehicle and framed window vehicle is that the part structure of the door and part in the pillars and roof is now able to be fully integrated into one piece making the structure much more rigid versus combining two lesser elements to do the job of one. There was an article on NASIOC from an emergency services conference where the B-pillars of newer Subaru's are constructed of 8 layers of high-strength steel that not even the jaws of life can get through. So it does help significantly in structural rigidityh for crashes, particularly side impacts. B4, While I know the GC/GM/GF (93-01) Impreza was based off the BC/BF (90-94) Legacy and perhaps the GD/GG (02+) has had some coorelation to the BD/BG (95-99) Legacy (they both use McPherson type of suspension), but the GD/GG Impreza is MUCH more rigid, well there is 7 years between the first of each generation. Huge advances in the automotive industry is had in that amount of time. Just some interesting numbers about generation changes:(for those who don't know the model codes I'm referencing are the sedan models)Legacy BC (Sport-92) (wheelbase: 101.6", length: 178.9", width: 66.5", weight:3220#)Legacy BD (GTL-99) (wheelbase: 103.5", length: 181.5", width: 67.5", weight:3130#)Legacy BE (GT-04) (wheelbase: 104.3", length: 184.4", width: 68.7", weight:3365#)Legacy BL (GTL-06) (wheelbase: 105.1", length: 186.2", width: 68.1", weight:3365#) Impreza GC (RS) (wheelbase:99.2", length:172.2", width:67.1", weight:2825#)Impreza GD (RS-06) (wheelbase:99.4", length:173.8", width:68.5", weight:3016#)Impreza GD (STI-06) (wheelbase: 99.4", length: 173.8", width: 68.5", weight: 3351#) Despite similarities, in my personal opinion, they are not the same platform or even a modification in size, etc. As I said before, I think the same basic design practices apply across the line, which affords them excellent safety abilities, but if the majority of the stampings are different, it IS a different chassis. The similarities rest in design practice as our engineering dept does. The vehicles are close enough in size and function, it may be interpreted as a new version of this or that, but in reality, Subaru's are like Legos anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrydog Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 The only differences between a frameless vehicle and framed window vehicle is that the part structure of the door and part in the pillars and roof is now able to be fully integrated into one piece making the structure much more rigid versus combining two lesser elements to do the job of one. There was an article on NASIOC from an emergency services conference where the B-pillars of newer Subaru's are constructed of 8 layers of high-strength steel that not even the jaws of life can get through. So it does help significantly in structural rigidityh for crashes, particularly side impacts. I don't think john_knoxville was talking about the frameless windows. I think he meant unibody construction as opposed to a vehicle with a separate frame. I might be wrong though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 Well the difference between a framed and unibody chassis is much different. Especially once you get into the likeness of a truck. Each has their pluses and minuses. I think in a car, with the modern design techniques and materials, a frame really has lost its usefulness, additionally the use of powerful design software like CATIA V5 which I use for work makes the ability to design in context, do real world analysis, and keep tolerances tight much easier. Subaru specifically uses CATIA V5 (not sure what rev) for design and development and knowing what it can do, it really does help cut development time and aid in production of a better product. Frames have been instrumental on trucks where things can essentially be packaged in kits, throw in this set of frame rails with this specific drilling, these X-members, add the suspension, box, cab, add your engine and driveline, and install the harnesses, not a huge amount more to it. Very modular. The cars with unibody are all of the body integrated in one shell which works together for rigidity and is basically that, a safety shell. But like I stated before, I think we with modern development and production tools, methods, and materials, I just don't see the need for a real frame under a car anymore, that is unless you want someone to think it's a throw-back to the 60's retro thing and they want to feel like a frame instead of a unibody is going to be a benefit. I'd call that really mostly psychological. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickSimcheck Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Anyone know when SOA will release information to the public? I'm going to be getting a LGT and might want to wait for '07 if it has Aux-in and folding rear seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_knoxville Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I don't think john_knoxville was talking about the frameless windows. I think he meant unibody construction as opposed to a vehicle with a separate frame. I might be wrong though... i know the difference between a frame construction and a unibody construction (well enough, anyway) what i was asking, and remains unknown to me, is what does a platform consist of with regards to a unibody vehicle -- same unibody design and shape? i gather it can't be the same unibody dimensions since some of you are suggesting the impreza and the tribeca are based upon the legacy "platform", yet have differing dimensions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Damn you!!!! I thought there was some new information in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjnorman Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 So any new information? Damn it! Spring is here, it is nearly 2007! Waiting for next winter so I can play with the AWD system in snow again.....:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 hey jon in [ct] - any new info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Bump for new info... Any news from Jon (in CT) or Opie, or anybody else? Seems to me, that this time last year I was hoping that the news was bogus that we had heard about the interior color choice being canned, and the manual trans legacy GT wagon, and base GT trim level were getting shuffled off. All that turned out to be true. Wheres the 07 info? Any leaked info would be welcomed. (with the caveat, of course that no one would get into trouble over it... it isn't worth that...) we all know how damn slow the information comes from the official SOA channels. Dealers will have their first allotments before we hear anything from them, website, brochure, or otherwise. New colors?, confirmation on the 07 Spec B's color, interior and equipment list? New trim levels? Slight revisions? Any news or confirmation of old news beyond what we already have here? I'd really love to know what the new colors will be. I want, and will be in a position to FINALLY buy a LGT this summer, and I want to know what colors to shop around to find, or get my local dealer to trade for, or outright factory order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 and I want to know what colors to shop around to find, or get my local dealer to trade for, or outright factory order. you should do a special order as soon as you have the info since you have the time to do so. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I thought about a factory order... But unless something changes, and subaru gets more configurability, it might be just as easy to find one in stock somewhere around... There really are only three big variables. Exterior color, manual transmission, and NO rear spoiler. (I want the K2 riez sedan spoiler. Badly...) Unless HIDS become a factory fitted option, NAV becomes more widely available (I'd opt to delete that option) or interior color choice comes back... there really isn't much more to it, and everything else, like the short shifter, sub woofer, compass/homelink mirror, and gauge pack is just a dealer installed, which doesn't matter to a factory order. A dealer transfer might be faster than waiting two or three months for the car to be built to the same number of limited options, but if it is not readily available, you better believe I'll be ordering it to specification. Maybe If I get in early enough with a deposit, the dealer will just request a car with my specs to be in their first allotment of 07 LGTs... for a gauranteed sale. They know what I look like, and they know I have been looking at Legacys a good long time, even though I try not to bother them. Hopefully with some cash on the table, they'll make it happen. But I need to know the specs first! Need the Info. Throw me a frikkin bone here! [/dr-evil] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 and everything else........is just a dealer installed, which doesn't matter to a factory order. au contraire!! The cost of those option on a factory order is significantly less than from the dealer (as in half the cost). At the factory, they have to put a shifter in anyways, so there's no extra labor to charge to install the STS. At the dealer, you will get charged labor for each option unless you left some money on the table in the overall deal of course (and who does that?? ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 No new info that I've seen yet... ...I just checked out Pipeline Report (shows what vehicle's are on there way) and there aren't any '07's listed yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Spec B will get blue suede seat inserts and 6sp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 au contraire!! The cost of those option on a factory order is significantly less than from the dealer (as in half the cost). At the factory, they have to put a shifter in anyways, so there's no extra labor to charge to install the STS. At the dealer, you will get charged labor for each option unless you left some money on the table in the overall deal of course (and who does that?? ). VERY INTERESTING... I thought STS, spoiler or not, and all that other stuff was dealer-install (or not install) only, and that only the major trim changes were built to a quota at the factory. I didn't realize that the factory/port install was available on some of that accessory stuff, or that it was so much cheaper. If that is the case, then maybe a factory order is looking a lot better. Now I am also going to have to wait and see if there are any new accessory options for 07, as well, so that I can get them built in at the factory. Blue interior in a silver car (darker grey than even titanium silver has been rumored) is passable, but not even as good as silver and red interior. SOA NEEDS to sell the Spec B in other colors. with the red or just black interiors. (black with red stitching and a black headliner would be nice, like the STI and Blitzen cars overseas...) I wonder how many 06 Spec Bs remain unsold simply due to the fact that they aren't the color that some people want, either inside, outside, or both. If subaru wants to sell a Legacy with a blue interior, it had better be trademark WR Blue on the outside, too. That is the best option for a blue interior. Grey, black, or white cars look better with a red interior, even though blue isn't a big no-no. It is a big no-no on a red car, though... and Spec Bs should be offered in some colors like red or blue. I am completely serious. I would probably like the 6MT/VTD/Bilstein spec B stuff, and I AM the demographic that the Spec B should be targeting... But if it is stone grey/silver, with a cold blue interior, I won't buy it, and I'll get a regular LGT. Some other people might go so far as to buy a different car altogether, like say a mazdaspeed 6, in a very nice looking Velocity Red over black leather. If it were a nice vibrant blue or red, or even black, I would try to make it work, even with the Spec B's higher price. Maybe I am not like other people, but I am not going to spend extra money on a car painted a color I don't really like. That doesn't seem too "out of touch with mainstream" to me. I can't justify being it debt that long over something I am not really satisified with. If that is common to more people than just me, then SOA has a problem on their hands... which seems to be the case with many 06 Spec Bs still unsold. Not a bad car, just entirely too limited of a configuration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 yeah....it's a bummer. It was a make it or break it thing for me. I wasn't going to spend $600 on an STi STS....a joke. I had a factory order in, but the dealer wanted to get me into a car for month end...the order wouldn't be in for another two weeks. My motivation was the GTP deal....WRX was being traded and $500 in Subaru Bucks. If you are in a pinch, get the sales guys to give you a fair price on the accessories and either do the install yourself, or go back to Service and negotiate a price. The Sales weenies are working off of a fixed price sheet for labor, complete with markup and commission to them for the deal. Bypassing them may piss your Sales weenie off, but so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 VERY INTERESTING... I thought STS, spoiler or not, and all that other stuff was dealer-install (or not install) only, and that only the major trim changes were built to a quota at the factory. I didn't realize that the factory/port install was available on some of that accessory stuff, or that it was so much cheaper. If that is the case, then maybe a factory order is looking a lot better. Now I am also going to have to wait and see if there are any new accessory options for 07, as well, so that I can get them built in at the factory. PGT is right... there is a difference in accessory price. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno1453 Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I just hope they bring back the 5-speed GT wagon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I just hope they bring back the 5-speed GT wagon! Doomed! Doomed! DOOMED! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftride Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I just hope they bring back the 5-speed GT wagon! then i will wish i had waited till '07, but hey i guess i have ground clearance *vb gallery* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintinet Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 5 sp, nah 6 sp MT wagon!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA81 Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Damn you!!!! I thought there was some new information in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommyh Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 then i will wish i had waited till '07, but hey i guess i have ground clearance and the serious version. Martin Luther - "Who loves not women, wine and song remains a fool his whole life long." EL4NFZT7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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