2007 Subaru Line

[osunick]

Sounds all pretty straight forward. Only thing I dont think is correct is a new nose for the Tribeca in 2008, this would SERIOUSLY upset ppl that had purchased a Tribeca in 2006/2007 and there is no need to change something that is so new. Then again anything is possible

Thanks for the info.

Ada///M.

Except this is standard operating procedure for Subaru lately. The bugeye impreza got a new nose in 2004 and another new nose in 2006. If anything response to the B9 has been worse than the response to the round light 2002/2003 Impreza. If they don't do anything about it, B9 sales will continue to be a disaster.

[osunick]

i know the difference between a frame construction and a unibody construction (well enough, anyway)

 

what i was asking, and remains unknown to me, is what does a platform consist of with regards to a unibody vehicle -- same unibody design and shape? i gather it can't be the same unibody dimensions since some of you are suggesting the impreza and the tribeca are based upon the legacy "platform", yet have differing dimensions

I used to work for Ford on Product Definition systems, so I might be able to shed some light here. Contrary to what you've heard on the forums, a 'platform' does not refer to an identical floorpan and identical chassis dimensions. There is no standardized definition of platform, but in general it refers to major components like brakes, HVAC, engines, transmissions, and suspension components being similar and interchangeable with very little if any modification. Cars that share the same platform can look extremely different. For instance, the Infiniti FX45 and Nissan 350Z share the FM platform even though the dimensions of the cars are quite different. They share many parts and this is how a company can offer quality and variety at a reasonable cost. It DOES NOT mean the resulting cars are very similar in character or performance.

 

As cars become more expensive to develop and car companies tailor their products for niche markets, platform engineering allows companies to share costs for components which can be pretty much the same for a sports car and an SUV (i.e. brakes) and spend money on design, styling, and differentiating features. A great example of this is the Mazda 3 and Volvo V50. Both are in very different markets and price points, and a layperson would not be able to tell from driving or seeing the cars that they shared a platform. However, the Mazda and Volvo have many unique features that differentiate them more from the market than their predecessors did, which had two separate platforms.

 

From what I understand, all subarus have shared the same platform for over a decade now, which is evidenced by the high degree of parts interchangability between different models and generations of subarus. However, the Legacy and Impreza platforms differ in one significant way- the Legacy rear suspension is multilink vs the strut Impreza suspension. My guess is that the 2008 Impreza will have a multilink suspension like the remainder of the line.

 

I also see a lot here about consumers wanting more choice in buying their cars, thinking that it is a simple matter for Subaru to increase the options list. This is definitely not easy, and not because of the cost of the options themselves- it's the logistics involved in managing a more complex product. Having only 68 different types of Subarus on the lot cuts a lot of costs out of manufacturing the cars.

 

Each additional option adds a lot of complexity to the system, and if you were to add only 4 additional options, the number of possible combinations would exceed 1,000. This is the fatal flaw of the American auto industry, offering all these combinations easily can add over a thousand dollars to each car, and very, very few custom orders come in, since they take 2 months to schedule and build.

 

A better solution is to do what Honda does- provide a few trim levels and no factory options. You can cut enough cost out of the system by simplifying to essentially offer many options for free. The challenge that Subaru's product planners have to face is how to simplify their lines while still offering what buyers want.

 

If I were in charge, (which I am not and never would be) I'd kill the Outback Sedan, and the Outback Sport (no need to have this when the Forester is around). Also the LL Bean 3.0R and VDC trim should go as well, with the VDC feature becoming standard (the cost of providing the feature on a vehicle already with 4 channel ABS is minimal and I don't understand why they are reserving it for only one model). Then leather and Nav can be stand alone options on all models.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Options may be more expensive that some (even me) realize, but you nailed it by pointing out that they have to balance that with giving people what they want.

 

It seems that legacy is victim to compromise toward what SOA wants to do, rather than what the customers would want (Legacy GT is a turbocharged car, and one would thing focused toward performance oriented people.)

 

It is odd that SOA created more trim lines for the Legacy in the non-GT realm (base, SE, and Limited) and the Outback (3.0R became a cut-price, sedan renamed LLBean like the wagon, in addition to XT and VDC...) but cut the Legacy GT to one trim line.

 

I would think drivetrain changes would be easier (since they install the same drivetrain into the chassis anyway...) and just organize it that way.

Engine 2.5i, 2.5GT/XT, and 3.0R.

Bodystyle: Sedan or Wagon Legacy, Wagon Outback.

Transmission: Manual or Automatic

Trim, base or Limited.

Interior color: black or taupe.

seventy two, or a few less (depending on if some combinations make no sense...) combinations cover all those bases.

Figuring Color, Nav, and HID would add a bit, admittedly... but this is the car business.

 

But I would think that these sort of things would be manageable by a company like Subaru. FHI japan offers much more choice, for one, as do most other companies. Costs are costs. you can try to cut them to a certain point, and beyond that the product suffers and doesn't sell as well.

 

It just seems like most other car companies can offer choices Subaru refuses to or can't. Subaru can't be THAT broke, and still compete in the market. Like we say: Gotta pay to play. That goes for automakers, too. And competition from other companies like Infinity/Nissan and Acura/Honda, and even Audi set the expectation of what people want for what price to pay... Subaru can hold that line, undercut the competition, or convince people to spend more money on a Subaru car for any given reason, but they don't seem to be doing overly well with offering more in one area, less in other areas, for a similar price, and not telling anyone about it.

[osunick]

Well, it's funny that you mention Honda because in general they offer even less choice that Subaru, but they do a great job of picking packages that people want, so I think that Subaru can do a great job of giving people what they want while managing complexity.

 

Toyota just fakes the concept of choice. Actually for any given sales region, only certain popular combinations are actually available. Try ordering a Lexus RX400h without Navigation in the bay area, for instance. You would actually find that none were available on dealer lots and the configuration is impossible to special order- there are no special orders in the toyota/lexus world. That's why lexus asks for your zip code before you can 'build your own' lexus online.

 

It's really not about dealers having less than 3 months of inventory. It's about dealers having inventory that they can sell off their own lots without having to do swaps or special orders. By restricting the amount of choices, dealers can be sure of having the cars in stock that people want. That's why it's so important to get the mix right, and a lot of it is intuition. You can't be purely data driven here- if 60 % of the cars that you build are white, then 60% of the cars you sell are white, but that's not indicative of demand, and the challenge lies in understanding what buyers really want. It's a difficult loop to close.

 

Scion has a great approach. All cars have 1 or 2 factory options, which are transmission and sometimes side airbags. The cars arrive in a port at southern california and are fitted with the accessories there. Since the facility is essentially one giant dealer inventory for all scion dealers, buyers can pick the exact colors they want and the accessories they want and get it in a week. A week is just about the maximum amount of time you can have for a special order before customer perceptions turn sour.

 

Let's not confuse one thing. Subaru offers more technology for less money than any other automaker. The VTD awd system is far more advanced than the Haldex or Quattro IV awd systems and it is offered in cars that start in the 25K range. Subaru is bad at messaging the true cost of the technology in their vehicles and offering options like HID and stability control that buyers understand. A flat 4 engine has many, many more parts than an inline four (4 camshafts, two cylinder heads, two head gaskets, 2 exhaust manifolds) and the rear biased full time awd system isn't been seen anywhere this side of a BMW. (ATTESA ET-S doesn't count because it doesn't employ a geared mechanical diff in addition to the hydraulic clutchpacks, therefore it's a part-time automatically engaging system)

[Tommyh]

Well, it's funny...

 

Who are you, and where the hell have you been!

[red beast]

i sent soa a email

 

Dear Mr. numbnuts:

 

Thank you for visiting the Subaru Web site and for taking the time to contact us. The most valued opinion of any business is that of its customers. Your comments are valuable to us in that they provide us with a clear picture of our products as seen by our customers.

 

We appreciate your suggestions for a hybrid diesel vehicle. We have taken the liberty of forwarding your suggestions to our Product Planning Department for their possible consideration on future Subaru vehicles. Input from our owners has been helpful in initiating changes to our newer models. We hope to continually improve our products and we appreciate your comments.

 

Subaru has by no means abandoned our hybrid-electric development goals but has recently taken steps to incorporate diesel technology into vehicles for alternative fuel options.

 

If you have any further comments or should you need assistance in the future, please contact our Customer Dealer/Services Department by phone at 1-800-SUBARU3 (1-800-782-2783) or by email through our Web site ' Contact Us' section. Thank you for your comments.

 

Best wishes,

 

Samir Hasan

Subaru of America, Inc.

Customer/Dealer Services Department

-----------------------------------------------------------

YOUR ORIGINAL MAIL:

 

hybrid

diesel

hybrid

diesel

 

make up your minds will ya!

 

how about a diesel hybrid?

 

that is all....go back to work!

 

First name: numb

Last name: nuts

[red beast]

Samir= Subaru Automated Machine Intelligent Responder

[KA81]

Samir= Subaru Automated Machine Incomprehensible Responder

 

 

 

Fixored

 

Fixed

[osunick]

Who are you, and where the hell have you been!

Thanks. I'm just a new guy.... long time subaru enthusiast, I've had an SVX, a WRX and an Outback in my garage at one time or another. Used to drive the Subaru to work at Ford until some wacko put a 'support usa' flyer on my windshield and sort of freaked me out. Now I drive an Evo but looking at a Legacy GT wagon for my fiancee... seems like the perfect complement to the Evo.

 

Needless to say I don't work for Ford or the auto industry anymore, it's an incredibly frustrating place to be if you're actually into the business of making and selling cars. I'm much happier as a consumer of vehicles than I ever was being involved in their production. A lot of boneheads everywhere, with a few brilliant, dedicated people keeping the whole thing afloat. But that's just my opinion.

[IwannaSportSedan]

A lot of boneheads everywhere, with a few brilliant, dedicated people keeping the whole thing afloat. But that's just my opinion.

 

I've always wondered that... just looking at the resultant products. I think that now more than ever, but you put it very well.

 

Welcome aboard, and please do keep filling us in on an insider's (albiet former) view of how the stuff works in the auto industry. it is very interesting, and some things an outsider or consumer would not know to consider.

[Tommyh]

Welcome aboard, and please do keep filling us in on an insider's (albiet former) view of how the stuff works in the auto industry. it is very interesting, and some things an outsider or consumer would not know to consider.

 

ditto