Starting suspension soon

[pseudonym]

So, I have installed the Tein springs as well as the OE 2010 (not 2013) struts and I'm really blown away by how much more harsh the ride is. I recall people saying the swift springs were better because of their design, but could they have been that much better?

 

I'm curious what I can do to get the car as close to factory feeling as I can while retaining these springs. I'd only ever had coilovers before (my last car) and assumed the harshness was from the sportier shocks involved but goddamn, was it only because of the height of the car? As it is now, my girlfriend does not like riding in my car and I find it a little nerve wracking dodging every imperfection in the road. I should clarify, it doesn't feel like ive replaced all my bushings with titanium and added 40mm swaybars but there is quite abit more harshness than I was expecting especially since I used the softer struts. What should I tackle next?

[motorbreath]

So, I have installed the Tein springs as well as the OE 2010 (not 2013) struts and I'm really blown away by how much more harsh the ride is. I recall people saying the swift springs were better because of their design, but could they have been that much better?

 

I'm curious what I can do to get the car as close to factory feeling as I can while retaining these springs. I'd only ever had coilovers before (my last car) and assumed the harshness was from the sportier shocks involved but goddamn, was it only because of the height of the car? As it is now, my girlfriend does not like riding in my car and I find it a little nerve wracking dodging every imperfection in the road. I should clarify, it doesn't feel like ive replaced all my bushings with titanium and added 40mm swaybars but there is quite abit more harshness than I was expecting especially since I used the softer struts. What should I tackle next?

 

From my research, all of the aftermarket springs have a higher spring rate to compensate for the lower ride height. That's one of the reasons I went with OEM 2013/14, but they are surprisingly stiff (like an unloaded 1/2 ton truck) and you can see from my previous posts that they might cause ride height issues. That being said, I think that you are going to need to go with different springs.

[dudemonster]

Ahem, cough *Eibach Pro Kit* cough

[DrD123]

From the tire to fender the distance is roughly 3.5" in the front and 2.5" in the rear. Any ideas? I am relatively sure I put everything together correctly, reused the rubber spring seats, made sure the conical washer was properly placed for the front struts, torqued everything properly. Any ideas about why the front-end would be higher?

That doesn't sound right at all. The front arch is higher and the space is more, but not that much! I am on 13/14 springs with Koni's and doing a quick and dirty measurement, the front is right about 2" and the rear a touch over 1.5" - the service manual doesn't provide a gap measurement, but from the center of the wheel to the top of the arch - on my car I measure around 15 and 7/16 inches in front and 15 and 3/16 in back, which is pretty close to the center of the range from the service manual (15.6 in front and 15.2 in the back, with an allowable range of +0.47 and -0.94 inches) - so for my car, I am using 13/14 Legacy springs (p/n 20330AJ10A in front and 20380AJ10A in back) and am sitting right at OEM ride height. If you are sitting an inch higher front and rear, something is wrong.

 

Any chance you bought Outback springs by mistake? those are p/n 20330AJ14A up front and 20380AJ13A (or 20380AJ12A) in the rear

[pseudonym]

Ahem, cough *Eibach Pro Kit* cough

 

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[Scubaboo]

Ahem, cough *Eibach Pro Kit* cough

 

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Covid?

[Scubaboo]

Tein lowering springs dont have the best reviews when I was looking.

 

Eibachs are frequently reviewed as riding nicely, on a lot of platforms. I had H&Rs on one of my cars that rode well with Bilsteins. Also had Swifts on my previous Forester and they rode nicely as well.

[pseudonym]

Well shit. I got these purely out of desperation because the swifts are out of production and these lower the car the amount I wanted.

[dudemonster]

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What Scuba said. I think the ride on Eibach springs is pretty good, better than it sounds like your Teins are providing. I am on the ‘13-14 KYBs on a ‘10 LGT. It’s only about 1” drop all around, so there’s a trade-off if you wanted more, but I am quite happy with the ride in both metro DC and rural blacktop and gravel WV. Different progressive spring rate than stock so can get firm as load increases, but it’s not jarring in normal street driving or on bouncy unpaved roads, and I have not bottomed out anywhere yet even with the drop. Would definitely do it again, though I don’t know if I could find the price Eibach was offering at the time (around $100).

[motorbreath]

Any chance you bought Outback springs by mistake? those are p/n 20330AJ14A up front and 20380AJ13A (or 20380AJ12A) in the rear

 

I double-checked the parts I ordered from the dealer, I provided them with the correct part numbers based on your post (20380AJ10A and 20330AJ10A), but there is definitely a 1.5-2cm different in ride height from front to rear. Maybe they gave me the wrong springs? I did not check the boxes to make sure they were the correct part numbers. Also, my previous car was a 2010 Outback, the spring rates are definitely higher on the springs that I installed.

 

I think the best approach is to doublecheck my installation front and rear, then go with the rear spacers if I cannot find any obvious issues. Swapping out brand new springs is not something I am looking forward to and I do not mind the extra clearance in the rear.

 

Thanks for the detailed information.

[DrD123]

Were the springs you took off the same length as the ones you put on? They definitely should have been! What do you measure front and rear from the center of the hub to the arch? I am on stock wheels and tire size (225/45-18)

[motorbreath]

Were the springs you took off the same length as the ones you put on? They definitely should have been! What do you measure front and rear from the center of the hub to the arch? I am on stock wheels and tire size (225/45-18)

 

I didn't check the springs, unfortunately, but I will measure when I get the car back, currently at an interior specialist for leather repair.

[motorbreath]

Were the springs you took off the same length as the ones you put on? They definitely should have been! What do you measure front and rear from the center of the hub to the arch? I am on stock wheels and tire size (225/45-18)

 

I just got the car back from the interior repair shop and took the measurements. Firstly, I have the 18" wheels with 225/45R18's. Front height is 16" even on both sides, rear height is 15" even on both sides. From my reading of the service manual page, that is actually within tolerances front and rear, just (unluckily) plus in front and minus in rear.

 

I would appreciate your advice, should I start uninstall, check assembly, and reinstall or go with the "saggy butt" spacers in the rear? I am replacing both lower control arms with adjustable ones in the near future, so the saggy butt spacers would not be a huge inconvenience.

 

I would prefer to go with the 3/4" spacers versus the 1" to not push the change in suspension geometry too much. What do you think ?

[DrD123]

Well, if you think anything is not assembled properly in the front or rear (hard to mess up the rear - make sure the end of the spring is sitting against the stop on the bottom. In the front, make sure the spring is seated properly against the stop on the strut at the bottom, and make sure the upper spring seat is aligned properly (it's asymmetric) - are you sure it's sitting higher now than it was before?

 

I haven't used spacers in the suspension before... from your measurement, you are only a quarter inch off what the manual says, so raising it 3/4" or 1" might look sort of weird...

 

I was surprised to see so much variance in the service manual - I am on the OEM sized wheels/tires as well (225/45-18). All the service manual really suggests for the ride height being incorrect is improper installation or incorrect parts...

[motorbreath]

Well, if you think anything is not assembled properly in the front or rear (hard to mess up the rear - make sure the end of the spring is sitting against the stop on the bottom. In the front, make sure the spring is seated properly against the stop on the strut at the bottom, and make sure the upper spring seat is aligned properly (it's asymmetric) - are you sure it's sitting higher now than it was before?

 

I haven't used spacers in the suspension before... from your measurement, you are only a quarter inch off what the manual says, so raising it 3/4" or 1" might look sort of weird...

 

I was surprised to see so much variance in the service manual - I am on the OEM sized wheels/tires as well (225/45-18). All the service manual really suggests for the ride height being incorrect is improper installation or incorrect parts...

 

I seem to have a front driver-side brake caliper issue, so I'll check the strut assemblies over the weekend while I look into that. When I assembled everything I made sure that the new springs made contact on the upper and lower spring seats the same way the original set did. This was pretty easy, the (used) rubber upper spring mounts had indentations in which the new springs fit into. There was a thick somewhat hemispherical washer for the front dampers, but I am sure that was installed properly as well.

 

Again, thanks for all your help!

[DrD123]

When I assembled everything I made sure that the new springs made contact on the upper and lower spring seats the same way the original set did.

For the lower, that's the way to do it, for the upper, it is not. (I had the ends in a little different position when I lined them up correctly - I did what you did first (positioned it right where the old one was) and had some noise I was chasing down and realized they were off a bit - I want to say somewhere around 45 degrees or so. You want the holes in the spring seat aligned as pictured below. I didn't notice if the front was a little higher before or not.

[motorbreath]

For the lower, that's the way to do it, for the upper, it is not. (I had the ends in a little different position when I lined them up correctly - I did what you did first (positioned it right where the old one was) and had some noise I was chasing down and realized they were off a bit - I want to say somewhere around 45 degrees or so. You want the holes in the spring seat aligned as pictured below. I didn't notice if the front was a little higher before or not.

 

I am somewhat sure that the holes were oriented away from the car, but I'll double check.

[pseudonym]

Time to revive this thread...

 

So I thought I'd give the car some time to see if I would just get used to things but my current setup (tein springs and new 2010 stock shocks) just absolutely sucks. I can't imagine the springs being the main culprit, though I doubt they help any, but the bumps and potholes have to mainly be felt by the shocks/struts right?

 

I've gotten to the point that I continually recall everyone telling me that the 2013 struts were so much better but I decided against them because people also told me they are a little stiffer than the 2010's. Did I have the wrong idea about better in that they aren't necessarily stiffer but handle road hazards better? Regardless, I am pretty against the idea of just replacing the struts because of the amount of work I went through just getting the current setup in place.

 

WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR

I just want as close to the stock ride as I can get with the car being lowered and I'm starting to get the feeling that coilovers are the way to achieve this. I had coilovers on my last car and they were very cheap and turned to shit very quickly. Is my only option to drop over a grand on some BC's? Are there coilovers that have a good reputation without hitting $1000?

[dsanford1029]

Time to revive this thread...

 

So I thought I'd give the car some time to see if I would just get used to things but my current setup (tein springs and new 2010 stock shocks) just absolutely sucks. I can't imagine the springs being the main culprit, though I doubt they help any, but the bumps and potholes have to mainly be felt by the shocks/struts right?

 

I've gotten to the point that I continually recall everyone telling me that the 2013 struts were so much better but I decided against them because people also told me they are a little stiffer than the 2010's. Did I have the wrong idea about better in that they aren't necessarily stiffer but handle road hazards better? Regardless, I am pretty against the idea of just replacing the struts because of the amount of work I went through just getting the current setup in place.

 

WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR

I just want as close to the stock ride as I can get with the car being lowered and I'm starting to get the feeling that coilovers are the way to achieve this. I had coilovers on my last car and they were very cheap and turned to shit very quickly. Is my only option to drop over a grand on some BC's? Are there coilovers that have a good reputation without hitting $1000?

I just swapped out neo max silvers "coilovers " with koni/H&R springs on my wife's 2011 2.5i. I really like the performance feel of the coilovers but she works in NYC and the roads are garbage so the bumps were extremely harsh.

The new setup isn't as tight and the ride is way more comfortable.

I still have the coilovers and will sell them at a good price but any coilovers you go with will probably have the same outcome "harsh ride quality ".

 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[dgoodhue]

I would guess it is the Tein springs that are main the culprit. I had a set of Tein springs on another car with KYB struts and it was worst riding car I have owned. Stock springs or 2013/2014 spring will give a nice ride but they won't lower the car. My GT had Eibach and KYB when I bought it and I thought the ride was decent (it wasn't soft like stock) but it had oversized tires 245/50-18's, so the side wall probably absorbed some of the harshness. Eibach are softer than H&R and Tein. I am not sure who makes the softest riding lowering springs though. Most coilovers aren't very good year round dampeners especially in the salt belt as they tend to wear out pretty fast.

[pseudonym]

Dammit. I can't believe there isn't a company out there that makes a "daily" coilover setup for folks who just don't want alot of wheel well gap. I love the look the springs give but my girlfriend absolutely hates taking my car anywhere and frankly, I'm sick of the harsh thunk that any one who's been lowered has heard that makes you grit your teeth afterwards when you hit that pothole/bump that you didn't catch in time.

 

Is my only option to go with airbags? oooooooh

[creep_nu]

check with fortune auto...all of their kits are hand built, and they may be able to do some custom valving and spring rates to help smooth out the ride. not gonna be cheap, but hey, worth a check Edited June 29, 2021 by creep_nu
a word

[Plastixx]

I would give my feedback on Eibachs + '13/14 struts, but I'm hella lazy and haven't put them on yet. It's insanely hot and humid here now, so it probably won't happen until this fall.

[pseudonym]

Doing some reading and finding that the KYB's historically don't do too well with shorter springs than stock. It's looking like I'll be going the coilover route. I was looking through some of the threads here but has anyone done like a coilover shootout? I'm leaning towards the BC/BR's but I'm seeing quite a few more out there...silvers, fortune, d2 racing, ISC's, ksports, megan, and cx racing. Edited June 30, 2021 by pseudonym

[dgoodhue]

[cough]Koni with Eibachs or H&R lowering springs[/cough]