Starting suspension soon

[pseudonym]

And just like that, the springs I ordered yesterday are here.

[Alexmed2002]

And just like that, the springs I ordered yesterday are here. ��

 

Wow, that was quick.

[Scubaboo]

i haven't had coilovers on this chassis, but i've had previous cars that were on coils and i gotta say, for a daily it's punishment. like you said scuba you have to be extra careful, and unless you live with perfect roads the trade offs aren't worth it. a good set of lowering springs and properly dampened shocks will get you 3/4 of the way there on handling, with only 10% of the downsides of coilovers. at least in my experience...i haven't had KWs or other super expensive coils, but...meh.

 

I'm ok with the ride of KW's, and Ohlins ride nice too, $$$ though...great damping but you lose a lot of travel, so depending on your roads you may end up on your bumpstops a lot in enthusiastic driving. That would get old quick on a daily driver. Yeah, Id agree that some sporty dampers and lowering springs will get you a lot with less hassle.

 

Wow OP those Teins arrived fast! Let us know how they are when you get the chance!

[pseudonym]

Started on my suspension last night. Replacing the struts and adding Tein lowering springs as well, so nothing really crazy but as I suspected, things arent exactly going smoothly. I figured I would just assemble the struts before everything so that once the old ones came out, I would just slot the new ones in. Keep in mind, I've only ever installed coilovers before, and given the simplicity in their design and the fact that theyre all put together when they arrive, the only issue I'd have would be the removal of the old stuff. Well cut to me trying to figure out how to assemble all the pieces of the strut with the dust cover and bumpstop and then the spring itself and not even realizing theres supposed to be a piece that slots between the spring and the tophat. Couple this with the fact that my father is freshly single and is on his phone like a teenage girl, so his help is limited. Luckily, I'm dealing with a subaru so it's a pretty straightforward install.

 

So I watch a few youtube videos and notice that piece that goes between the spring and the tophat and I'm immediately frustrated because this means compressing the springs to remove the tophat from the new piece and compressing the spring of the old piece to scavenge the missing piece. It was a ton of spring compression and my forearms are feeling it from all the wrench twisting. Finally I'm able to get the assembled strut into place and realize that I was trying to install the passenger side strut onto the drivers side. It was at that point that I decided to just go ahead and remove the strut from the passenger side, assemble the 2nd strut, and call it a night. Today after work I get to drive 3 towns over again and attack this for a 2nd night in a row. Who knows if we'll even get to the rears tonight. I have one more Monday off coming up so I need to have this all done by then (I work a regular mon-fri schedule while my father works fri-sun so Monday's are our best bet to get any of this work done).

 

Hopefully my next post will be a victorious one.

 

Made it back to my old man's house and since we had everything from the night before put together everything went in smoothly this time. Of course, theres a catch though. After buttoning everything back up (mind you its just the front suspension we did) I lowered the car back off the jack and got in to check for noises. Bouncing the suspension stays quiet, but turning the wheel back and forth from a stand still and very low speeds (under 10mph) yields a low creak. I've had my fair share of slammed cars and expected noises but this is a (what should've been) straight-forward lowering spring install and I'm still getting noises. I made sure everything was good and tight when bolting back up, hell I even torqued the nut that shows through to top hat to 40ft/lbs like I saw on youtube. Does anyone have any idea what it could be? Hopefully the link below works so you all can hear it. That was taken with my phone from the drivers seat as it isn't too audible with the engine running from outside.

 

 

Here is the noise I'm referring to

[DrD123]

One thing that can cause noise is if the spring seat (the part under the tophat that the washer rests against) is rotated - should be oriented with the two holes on the outboard side

[pseudonym]

One thing that can cause noise is if the spring seat (the part under the tophat that the washer rests against) is rotated - should be oriented with the two holes on the outboard side

 

Hold on, gimme more detail on that because I bet thats it. I was never sure if I positioned those correctly. Those 2 holes have to line up with what other 2 holes? Also, I dont remember any washer associated with that piece.

 

 

edit:

and as i did more reading i found the koni shock/strut install thread and read this:

17. Place the conical washer on top of the upper spring seat, smaller diameter side up. This washer allows the spring seat to interface solely with the inside diameter of the bearing in the strut mount. If you install it upside-down you will essentially be grinding the spring seat/washer/strut mount interface every time you turn.

 

Now I'm curious just how urgent I need to get this straightened out. I have a very short commute to work and really cant get to this until like friday or saturday at the earliest.

Edited October 28, 2020 by pseudonym

[Plastixx]

The holes are just drain holes and should be oriented toward the outside of the fender. The conical washer/spacer sits on top of it. This is what the washer looks like...

 

[pseudonym]

Just ordered a pair. Hope the car doesn't erupt in flames before they arrive.

[DrD123]

The holes are just drain holes and should be oriented toward the outside of the fender. The conical washer/spacer sits on top of it. This is what the washer looks like...

The spring seat is very asymmetric - orientation really matters, or the spring won't be straight and it can make noise.

 

 

without the conical washer, you are binding the bearing and it can't move, so it will make tons of noise...

[motorbreath]

So I took care of the front and rear coils and dampers, used the 2013 3.6R setup, including new springs from the dealer. I did reuse the front and rear upper spring seats, getting the fronts together with the conical washer was not so bad.

 

The only thing I am bit concerned about is the torque of the lower strut mount bolt. I have seen figures ranging from 59 to 89 to 118 lbf.

 

In this thread the service manual seems to indicate 118 lbf, I just want to confirm before I torque it, I screwed this up royally in my old 2.5RS and do not want to make the same mistake again.

[motorbreath]

The only thing I am bit concerned about is the torque of the lower strut mount bolt. I have seen figures ranging from 59 to 89 to 118 lbf.

 

Nevermind, I realized that I had the service manual from when I owned a 2010 Outback, the torque spec is 59 lbf, the thread I referenced was showing the service manual entry for the previous generation.

[DrD123]

Nevermind, I realized that I had the service manual from when I owned a 2010 Outback, the torque spec is 59 lbf, the thread I referenced was showing the service manual entry for the previous generation.

Thought that sounded low - assuming you mean the two pinch bolts, those should be 114 ft-lbs up front and the lower bolt for the rear is 88.5 ft-lbs

[motorbreath]

Ugh, I really had a bad day yesterday, went back to check the manual to see if I was going crazy or just made a mistake, you are right, 88.5 lbf it is.

 

I also forgot to mention that I did not understand how to torque the nut in the center of the mount. I bought a set of passthrough sockets so I could tighten them without using an impact gun, but I do not have a passthrough torque wrench.

 

I ended up just counting the number of exposed threads in the stock units that I pulled out and tightening until I had the same number for the new parts. Does that make sense?

[coco26]

How are you holding the shaft still while tightening the nut? I can't remember if the stock shafts have a hex or just two flat spots for a wrench.

 

Koni's have a full hex, so I held the nut still and used a torque wrench on the shaft hex.

 

If you can't do that, I would just consider the length of your ratchet and estimate the appropriate force on the end. If you're pretty good at estimating 40 pounds of force, extend your ratchet to two feet long and you'll be torqueing at 80 ft-lbs.

[Plastixx]

I also forgot to mention that I did not understand how to torque the nut in the center of the mount. I bought a set of passthrough sockets so I could tighten them without using an impact gun, but I do not have a passthrough torque wrench.

 

I ended up just counting the number of exposed threads in the stock units that I pulled out and tightening until I had the same number for the new parts. Does that make sense?

 

I've never torqued that nut to spec on any car. Just get it as tight as you can with a wrench and call it good. Counting threads sounds like a good way to end up with rattle from it not being tight enough.

[motorbreath]

How are you holding the shaft still while tightening the nut? I can't remember if the stock shafts have a hex or just two flat spots for a wrench.

 

I never though of that, I'll use a hex socket on my torque wrench and the passthrough socket to keep it from spinning. That being said, I am relatively sure they are torqued >20lbf, I was using a hex wrench to keep the shaft from spinning and the passthrough socket/wrench to tighten. I'll double-check using the torque wrench tonight.

 

I use a torque wrench religiously, before doing so I have broken ALOT of sh*t in my DIY car repair adventures. If a fastener can be broken, bolt can be sheared, I am the guy to do it!

 

That being said, after taking a decent test drive yesterday, I am very happy with the 2013 3.6R suspension components on my 2010 2.5GT, significantly stiffer but not uncomfortable.

[pseudonym]

How are you holding the shaft still while tightening the nut? I can't remember if the stock shafts have a hex or just two flat spots for a wrench.

 

Koni's have a full hex, so I held the nut still and used a torque wrench on the shaft hex.

 

If you can't do that, I would just consider the length of your ratchet and estimate the appropriate force on the end. If you're pretty good at estimating 40 pounds of force, extend your ratchet to two feet long and you'll be torqueing at 80 ft-lbs.

 

Literally just did this and came in for a break. To keep the shaft from spinning we took a tshirt and a vice grip and held it in place making sure not to put too much pressure. Just enough to keep it from spinning while we torqued things down.

[pseudonym]

Welp, I'm tossing the towel. Got the car all jacked up to do the rear last night and drenched the bolt/nut that needs to come out in pb blaster and still managed to round it off. I'm calling up the place that did my spark plugs and having them install the rears and take care of the rounded nut.

 

Side-note, I'm utterly blown away how integral that washer is that sits between the tophat and the spring perch. Got that piece put in and rotated the perch to sit correctly and voila, all the noises I was hearing just magically vanished.

 

Side-side-note...also really surprised by how much having the stock height rear and the 1.5" lower front effects the headlights. I figured it would but wow.

[Alexmed2002]

Side-side-note...also really surprised by how much having the stock height rear and the 1.5" lower front effects the headlights.

 

It certainly makes a difference lol

[motorbreath]

So I took my car in for an alignment now that the suspension is done, found out 1) the left rear lateral link is slightly bent (previous owner...) and 2) they are not able to get the rear toe angle within specs. They said not to worry about it, will just cause some premature tire wear, but obviously I want to get it fixed.

 

I am going to order a replacement from Rockauto (Mevotech CMS801172) and noticed that there are adjustable front lateral links available (Mevotech CMS101324). The ones currently on the car are not adjustable...should I:

 

1) Only replace the bent rear lateral link and get it aligned again,

2) Replace both the bent lateral link and the front lateral links so that the toe can be adjusted.

 

The adjustable links are quite expensive, but I would like to have my alignment perfectly dialed-in.

[Plastixx]

The adjustable links are quite expensive, but I would like to have my alignment perfectly dialed-in.

 

How about $102 for all 4....

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233437585767

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-13-19-Fr-S-Brz-Jdm-Rear-Adjustable-2-Suspension-Toe-Control-Bar-Arm-Red/233418653441

Edited November 8, 2020 by Plastixx
math is hard

[coco26]

So I took my car in for an alignment now that the suspension is done, found out 1) the left rear lateral link is slightly bent (previous owner...) and 2) they are not able to get the rear toe angle within specs. They said not to worry about it, will just cause some premature tire wear, but obviously I want to get it fixed.

 

I am going to order a replacement from Rockauto (Mevotech CMS801172) and noticed that there are adjustable front lateral links available (Mevotech CMS101324). The ones currently on the car are not adjustable...

 

Definitely replace the bent control arm (rear lateral link). Most people here replace them with ones that incorporate camber adjustment, because the stock setup has no camber adjustment available. See the Whiteline KTA216A as an example. They're probably more than what you need if you're staying at stock height for a while though.

 

For whatever reason, every shop I've been to insists there is no rear toe adjustment from the factory, but there is. If you look at the inboard bolt through the toe link (front lateral link), there is a concentric washer that will adjust the toe as it spins.

 

Because toe and camber change at the same time with our suspension configuration, shops have continued to ignore the actual toe adjustment and have set my toe with the camber adjustment on my control arms, and the camber just "is what it is".

 

So maybe you need the threaded-type adjustable toe links for a shop to acknowledge that toe can be adjusted? Not sure.

[Scubaboo]

IMO:

 

1) Definitely replace any bent parts. They can cause problems on suspension travel even if static alignment is somehow set right, and cause problems with other alignment settings too.

 

This would be a perfect time to upgrade to camber adjustable rear lateral links! SPC's are good, and they are sold under a lot of different brands too. My own Whiteline adjustable arms are made by SPC. I went with the Whiteline because I prefer the solid bushing they use vs the spherical bearing/bushing SPC uses, but that is more of nitpicking honestly.

 

2) I dont see a reason to replace the front lateral links. The stock part is adjustable via eccentric cam bolt, and it has enough range to set correct toe at stock height and at reasonable drops in my experience.

 

As mentioned camber and toe affect each other with this design. The bent arm may be the reason the front lateral link maxes out.

 

This assumes the tech knows what he is doing. If he says rear toe isnt adjustable at all, he doesnt know what he is doing.

[motorbreath]

For whatever reason, every shop I've been to insists there is no rear toe adjustment from the factory, but there is. If you look at the inboard bolt through the toe link (front lateral link), there is a concentric washer that will adjust the toe as it spins.

 

I think I'll take it to one of the local Subaru specialists for the alignment next time. I was in a hurry this time because the front was way out of alignment from the previous owner. The shop I took it to got the rear camber within spec, so maybe they are approaching it in the opposite way as you have experienced, adjust for camber the toe is what it is.

 

I am going for stock height and alignment because this car is going to be used as a true GT car. If I could only get a taller 6th gear..anyway, if I get the adjustable front lateral link, won't I still have the issue with camber+toe being coupled to the same adjustment? Is the only way to decouple them to get the adjustable rear and front lateral links?

[motorbreath]

IMO:

This would be a perfect time to upgrade to camber adjustable rear lateral links! SPC's are good, and they are sold under a lot of different brands too. My own Whiteline adjustable arms are made by SPC. I went with the Whiteline because I prefer the solid bushing they use vs the spherical bearing/bushing SPC uses, but that is more of nitpicking honestly.

 

OK, I think all of the adjustable ones sold on Rock Auto are SPC, I'll order a pair of them. Now I need to find a decent bushing removal/installation kit.