to wrap or not to wrap..... that is the question!

[Tehnation]

I have some el headers from map, found them over on nasioc.

 

I want to be lazy and not wrap them but some part of me is saying i should, considering i have over 100' of 2" wrap...

 

wrap gets wet, keeps in moisture, eventually ruins the metal or may start a fire if it soaks up oil. But it does make it easier and faster to work on your car because you can touch it after turning motor off. Will also stop heat from soaking into other things.....

 

hmm..... i hate working with fiberglass products....

[Max Capacity]

I had the same choice when I put the new up pipe and dp on the wagon...I ended up going to the local speed shop and supported them by buying a 50ft roll. I wrapped them both and now have some left over for the next time. May next summer when I have the lower engine cover off I'll re-warp the OEM header. I have most of the heat shields removed, rusted.

[boxkita]

There's DEI wrap and there's heat shield products wrap.

 

Doesn't work vs actually works. Pricing is different, tho.

[utc_pyro]

There's DEI wrap and there's heat shield products wrap.

 

Doesn't work vs actually works. Pricing is different, tho.

 

Care to share details? I need to rework my all the shielding when I swap the up-pipe with the EWG one. The DEI “titanium” (basalt) wrap I have on the ELH doesn’t seem to be doing much.

[tocinoman25]

I was in the same boat when I got my perrin ELH nearly 6 years ago. I have read people have no issues with wrap but also read that it makes it brittle etc etc. I ended up ceramic coating mine professionally. Just this summer the coating started to peel a little bit. I have the under tray on my car still. It has been through 3 chicago winters and now 3 las vegas summers. Hope this helps. I will get the ceramic coating done again next summer.

 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Tehnation]

Care to share details? I need to rework my all the shielding when I swap the up-pipe with the EWG one. The DEI “titanium” (basalt) wrap I have on the ELH doesn’t seem to be doing much.

 

That's the name of the company! Heatshield Products!

 

https://www.heatshieldproducts.com/

[utc_pyro]

That's the name of the company! Heatshield Products!

 

https://www.heatshieldproducts.com/

 

Yep, know that. I have some of their stuff on my intake. My question was regarding the works/doesn’t between their stuff and DEI wrap.

[covertrussian]

I have some el headers from map, found them over on nasioc.

 

I want to be lazy and not wrap them but some part of me is saying i should, considering i have over 100' of 2" wrap...

 

wrap gets wet, keeps in moisture, eventually ruins the metal or may start a fire if it soaks up oil. But it does make it easier and faster to work on your car because you can touch it after turning motor off. Will also stop heat from soaking into other things.....

 

hmm..... i hate working with fiberglass products....

 

I would avoid wrap at all costs and not only from it getting wet (keep in mind that moisture in the air will cause premature rusting too). The real reason to avoid wrapping is it overheats the metal, which leads to stress cracks (especially around welds), but can also lead to rust. I saw a post talking about how 304 stainless will rust form inside out due to overheating causing it to lose the stainless properties (basically the same issue as welding stainless steel and rusting if not properly gas shielded).

 

Now when I had my Tomei ELH SS headers, they would be cool enough to touch within 10 minutes, stainless steel sheds heat really quickly.

Edited December 2, 2018 by covertrussian

[boxkita]

I have 3 motors worth of DEI wrap that have failed. The race motor had DEI wrap on the headers which overheated and turned into glass. The 2 stock motors had the same results.

 

I loaned an up-pipe to someone who wrapped it. It rusted out in 3 months.

 

The DEI wrap has an instantaneous limit and a constant limit. The 1100F limit is for 30 seconds. An up-pipe can see upwards of 1800F and an average of 1200-1500F.

 

Even the Heatsheild products instructions say not to fully wrap the pipes due to overheating the metal and causing failures. Even the basalt products have that notation.

 

The OEM shields allow the metal to expand and contract while keeping parts cool. Not cool to touch, just keeping the heat down.

[utc_pyro]

I’ve always painted my pipes first, which seems to prevent any external rusting at least. Jet Hot, Cerakote (Grimmspeed OEM coating), and even VHI flameproof rattlecan paint do a pretty good job as a rust preventative measure under wrap.

 

My issue with the DEI stuff not just it degrading, but doing a crappy job of minimizing both radiant and convective heat transfer. The radiant heating you can clearly see with a FLIR camera, and convective you can tell because spool is crap unless you’ve been on it in the last 20 seconds.

 

I’ve been looking at the Heatshield Products Header/Exhaust Armor line for recovering my Tomei headers. Any thoughts on this stuff? It’s a fiberglass blanket with an aluminum backing.

Edited December 2, 2018 by utc_pyro
iOS autocorrect changed convective to conductive

[nevets27]

I’ve been looking at the Heatshield Products Header/Exhaust Armor line for recovering my Tomei headers. Any thoughts on this stuff? It’s a fiberglass blanket with an aluminum backing.

 

All I can say is I have some and I have used it just not the same way most of you would intend to use it (ez30). I have it on my cats to protect the cv boots. Pics in my "build" thread.

 

 

Sent from my LG-US998 using Tapatalk

[rhino6303]

I’ve always painted my pipes first, which seems to prevent any external rusting at least. Jet Hot, Cerakote (Grimmspeed OEM coating), and even VHI flameproof rattlecan paint do a pretty good job as a rust preventative measure under wrap.

 

My issue with the DEI stuff not just it degrading, but doing a crappy job of minimizing both radiant and conductive heat transfer. The radiant heating you can clearly see with a FLIR camera, and conductive you can tell because spool is crap unless you’ve been on it in the last 20 seconds.

 

I’ve been looking at the Heatshield Products Header/Exhaust Armor line for recovering my Tomei headers. Any thoughts on this stuff? It’s a fiberglass blanket with an aluminum backing.

I used a similar product from thermotec (V8 header shield) to put over my cerakote coated ELH to save my undertray from melting. The heatshield product has a higher continuous/peak temperature though.

[boxkita]

The basalt product has a higher continous melting point which is what you want. Follow the instructions. And wear a breathing mask.

 

Be sure you are protecting the correct things. Once you take off the OEM heat shields, protection is a bit dicey.

[Tehnation]

I just need to figure out how to keep my oil cooler coolant line insulated..... forget the wrap, i don't want to deal with it anyway...

 

 

[RckyMtnGT]

I'd replace that coolant pipe, it looks pretty dang corroded to begin with, and now without paint it'll go even faster. They aren't too expensive at the dealer, I just replaced mine for peace of mind. Then I decided to put some DEI Reflect-a-gold around it. Used the 2 inch roll of it and just cut small pieces and wrapped it up. Should help a bit.

 

 

 

I picked it up at RallySport direct on sale, but I was suprised to see it at my local Pep Boys, too, along with a bunch of other heat-rejection stuff, wraps, sheaths, tape, etc. Might be worth a look if you have one close.

 

 

I had my header ceramic coated locally, largely just cuz it was the easiest option. Does it do as well as a dedicated heat shield, or SwainTech, or wrap - probably not. But its at least not bare metal, now.

[Tehnation]

Nah... that's just surface rust! That little guy, I wouldn't worry about that little guy! Its nowhere close to needing to be replaced, unless its a show car.... but its still perfectly functional, the picture doesn't do it any justice.

 

Does your pipe actually touch the manifold, mine does, I had to bend the bracket up to give it clearance... I'm more worried about the rubber elbows!

[RckyMtnGT]

Probably has about an inch, inch and a half-ish clearance to the header. Definitely not touching.

 

I replaced those coolant elbows, too, again pretty cheap thru the dealer. The sealing surfaces of the hard pipes under the clamps was where I had the 'worst' corrosion. You could probably push that pipe up a little, and reposition the rubber a bit if necessary.

 

 

Or one of these: https://www.rallysportdirect.com/part/heat-isolation-heat-wrap/the-14035-thermo-tec-express-sleeve-1-5in-x-3ft

 

They've got various diameters, and the 'express' sleeve would allow the support bar to pass thru.

[GEE-OTTO]

Skip that wrap and buy yourself some VHT 2000F Flame Proof paint and clear coat (~$25 total) I have coated my 08 2.5i, 08 and 09 LGTs exhaust parts (Manifold and DPs) with it and added the DEI gold tape to the adjacent areas ( firewall near DP, under/around cylinder head near UP, oil cooler, etc). Make sure you are in a well ventilated area upon first start up, there will be smoke, but after a couple of drive it is cured solid.

[covertrussian]

I’ve always painted my pipes first, which seems to prevent any external rusting at least. Jet Hot, Cerakote (Grimmspeed OEM coating), and even VHI flameproof rattlecan paint do a pretty good job as a rust preventative measure under wrap.

 

This is a good idea for external side, but external side is only part of the problem it seems like rusting form inside out is the bigger concern with wrapped pipes.

 

I almost wanna find a sheet of stainless steel and just bend it to make a heatshield of my own.

[boxkita]

Heatshield products makes a oil filter heatshield. Sgt.gator posted one on his sti racer page. It seemed to help.

[Tehnation]

https://www.heatshieldproducts.com/lava-oil-filter-heat-shield

 

These guys? Do you have a link for sgt gators page? Trying to figure out which model to get.

 

I'm going to insulate everything else and leave the manifold alone.... thinking i'll leave the uppipe alone as well, but not sure whats close to it.

 

I need to get a turbo blanket as well.

[boxkita]

Gator's thread - https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/colonel-red-racing-2005-sti-race-car-252949.html

 

There's insulation and there's shielding. Be sure you are not confusing the two.

 

The more heat you can keep in the exhaust system before the turbo the better off you'll be. After that, you want to avoid cooking things that use oil and water. Anything that is wrapped and gets wet, will rust.

 

Coatings, if done right, work better than wraps. Shielding can redirect heat away from delicate systems without causing other issues.

[KRYPTO]

ceramic coating would be the ideal solution just under heat shields with high heat insulation

[Max Capacity]

Found this today,

 

[Enlight]

Found this today,

 

 

 

Flatirons tuning has a bunch of excellent videos.

 

 

I just wrapped my headers, uppipe, downpipe, and midpipe and Boxkita's comments have me a little concerned, but at this point I'm willing to roll the dice and learn the hard way. I got the basalt wrap and plan to spray it down with their silicone paint. I'm worried about oil wicking so I'm hoping the paint will impregnate the fibers enough to address that issue. DEI recommends applying three coats and curing at 400f between each coat for 2 hours (application of paint for basalt wrap is different than the fiberglass). It's going to be a long weekend with my Kamado Joe.

 

 

Here are the oil press./temp. wires my inconel coated headers burned up.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Enlight