Removing '05 GT Camshaft Position Sensor P0340

[not12listen]

This might be exactly related, but it might be useful.

 

 

My wife's 1999 Outback was having misfiring issues randomly. I replaced the fuel filter, as we had no idea when it was last replaced, and since that time (nearly a month ago) there have been zero misfires.

 

This is after I had replaced the air filter, IACV, spark plugs, plug wires & ignition coil.

[Paycheck]

Well, I cleaned the injectors and replaced the o-rings. No change. I did notice that 3 of the 4 injectors measured 10.8 ohms (approx) but one measure 11.5 Not a huge difference, but at such low resistance, I don't know if it would have an effect or not.

 

I moved them around the car too to see if the code moved to the driver side cam sensor. It didn't.

 

So I'm back to square one. I might ask the stealership in town to take a look. I spoke with the guy at the parts desk a couple of times and he assures me they'll figure it out. They're a new outfit, so what they may lack in experience they make up for with a "can do". I dunno, I'm running out of cold weather, so if I don't do it this week, I may not know until next year.

 

It's either let them have a crack at it, or keep throwing parts at it. Next would be fuel pressure regulator. I need an external waste gate to manage overboosting so I can finish my tune, and I would have them install a new O2 sensor as well when they do that (wide band). So that might fix it too.

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Peace!

$$$

 

EDIT : Hey, does the '05 LGT have a gauge port on the fuel lines that I can connect to to verify that my FPR is working properly? Thanks.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Paycheck

[Paycheck]

In light of the issues Ive been having, and considering the possibility that my problem is fueling related (as suggested by CovertRussian) I have a question for those still watching this thread...

 

Ever since I owned the car, I've noticed a "gurgling" sound that seems to be coming from behind the instrument panel. Sounds like it's right behind my gauge cluster.

 

I always assumed it was just engine coolant flowing through the interior heater coils, but I figured I would at least ask the question. I've never had the dash apart to look, and I don't know exactly where the fuel lines run from the tank to the engine. Anyway, there it is...

 

What would that noise be?

If it IS fuel, should it gurgle like that? (kind of an intermittent, flowing liquid sound)

Could it indicate a problem with my fuel pump or regulator thus causing my cold weather issues?

 

Thanks.

$$$

 

P.S. I don't know if it gurgles as much or at all in warm weather, but will keep an ear out for it. It's too cold today.

[rhino6303]

It is the heater system.

[Paycheck]

It is the heater system.

 

That's what I figured....I just thought I would ask.

[Pleides]

In light of the issues Ive been having, and considering the possibility that my problem is fueling related (as suggested by CovertRussian) I have a question for those still watching this thread...

 

Ever since I owned the car, I've noticed a "gurgling" sound that seems to be coming from behind the instrument panel. Sounds like it's right behind my gauge cluster.

 

I always assumed it was just engine coolant flowing through the interior heater coils, but I figured I would at least ask the question. I've never had the dash apart to look, and I don't know exactly where the fuel lines run from the tank to the engine. Anyway, there it is...

 

What would that noise be?

If it IS fuel, should it gurgle like that? (kind of an intermittent, flowing liquid sound)

Could it indicate a problem with my fuel pump or regulator thus causing my cold weather issues?

 

Thanks.

$$$

 

P.S. I don't know if it gurgles as much or at all in warm weather, but will keep an ear out for it. It's too cold today.

 

Sounds like the HVAC actuator that sits behind the cluster. My car made a coffee machine gurgle noise on the passenger side and I never realized my passengers only ever got freezing cold air. Fairly easy to replace that actuator as it's basically a cabin air filter job to get to it. However, the driver's side is a f***ing nightmare. Whole dash needs to come out.

[Paycheck]

Well, I got a new code today. Still have some cold weather here and it was about 6 degrees C this morning, which is kind of the "sweet spot" (ie. sour spot) for when the car doesn't want to start, throws codes, idles rough, etc.

 

The new code is P2006, which seems to indicate that my passenger side TGV actuator is stuck closed. I had very low boost and significantly less power while driving, so that's a new symptom as well, which coincides with the new code.

 

I'm hoping this is good news. If the tgv motor was sticking or even slow to function, that could starve my cyls 1 & 3 for air and cause it to run rich, backfire, stumble etc. Basically, I'm thinking this could have been the cause of all my woes. Right? Please say yes and tell me I'm on to something.

 

Anyway, I'm out of town for work next week but will pull and test the part when I'm back and hopefully get this finally put to bed.

 

Wish me luck!

$$$

[JoeInOregon]

Good news it seems likely , but either way it's definitely an issue.

 

The other up side is now you need to remove your intake manifold, and are likely to find all kinds of gasket band hoses in terrible shape that will need replacement, and improve your situation.

 

These cars are so much simpler to work on and it's been a nice change.

 

That being said the intake manifold and everything around it is the worst design I have ever seen, built to fail. The whole vacuum system is plumbed it the most stupid way ( see blue tee)

 

Wile you have it apart delete or replace the blue tee and change where your FPR gets it's boost reference

 

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Paycheck]

The other up side is now you need to remove your intake manifold, and are likely to find all kinds of gasket band hoses in terrible shape that will need replacement, and improve your situation.

 

I've actually had the intake off a couple of years ago and replaced the rubber gaskets, so I have the thicker, orange ones in there now.

 

I'm hoping I don't have to take it off again, because that's a pain. I'll pull the TGV motor first since it's in the front and easy to get at. I'll test it to see if it's seized or sluggish, check to see that the TGV flaps move freely and go from there.

 

It actually snowed yesterday (yeah, and it's mid-April...WTF) so I have at least one or two more cold days this year to see if this is it. I'll update soon.

 

$$$

[Paycheck]

Here we go again...

 

So I replaced the passenger side TGV actuator (I was getting intermittent P2004 and P2006 codes). I was hoping this might be related to my cold weather problem, but the issue still remains. I also retaught the idle learning and that seemed to help a little. Still have the problem, but way less misfiring while it's in the "sweet" spot.

 

I also was also looking at live data the other day while idling, and as it starts to sputter, my fuel trim compensation jumps up to 25 right when it starts to chug. My guess is that it briefly goes into a lean condition, the ECU compensates by dumping a ton of fuel, floods it a little, sputters and struggles, evens out, and the cycle repeats.

 

Today is a bit of a cooler day so decided I would start it up and check for leaks along the fuel rail, which seems to be a common cold weather problem. Didn't find any.

 

What I am noticing is a noise around the throttle body when the key is on. Sounds like a high pitched hum accompanied by what could be electrical "crackling". Not sure if the '05 LGT 2.5 has an idle control valve in the throttle body or not. I thought the TGV handle that, but anyway, I made a TERRIBLE video on my phone and uploaded to youtube. If someone has in idea what it might be, let me know. I don't know if it's related to the problems I've been having or not, but it doesn't sound healthy and is probably something I should fix anyway.

 

Thanks,

$$$

 

[rhino6303]

The hum is normal.

 

Have you ever replaced your oxygen sensors with OEM? What's the roughness count when this happens?

 

With the change in fuel correction it seems like Maf/fuel/oxygen sensor related.

[Paycheck]

The hum is normal.

 

Have you ever replaced your oxygen sensors with OEM? What's the roughness count when this happens?

 

With the change in fuel correction it seems like Maf/fuel/oxygen sensor related.

 

I'll try to log data this afternoon and see what the roughness count is.

 

I'm pretty sure both the AFR (front) and O2 (rear) sensor are the original. So yeah, they're old. I was thinking about having the front sensor replaced with a wide band when I have the EWG installed. Can't finish tuning it until that gets done because I'm overboosting like mad.

 

Unfortunately, I won't know if the problem persists after replacing the sensor because the weather is getting warmer here finally. We'll see how I feel after the tune is done, but at this point I'm thinking I'll sell it this summer.

[Berge56]

I would only use an OEM front o2 sensor. If you want to add wideband, add it downstream with a 10 degree angle from horizontal position. I used the AEM wideband and have had great success with it.

[Paycheck]

Well, with only a few days of cold weather remaining here, I decided to let the local dealership take a crack at diagnosing my issue. Unfortunately, they couldn't replicate the problem but, I have to hand it to the technician. He spent some personal time over the weekend looking at videos and came up with something very interesting.

 

 

Scoping the sensors the way this guy does is out of my diagnostic capabilities. And I'm certainly not considering buying a new camshaft. But it might at least be worth the cost of a professional diagnostic to see if they can pinpoint the issue and identify if it is in fact a magnetized camshaft.

 

I might even be able to locate a demag machine that I can use. So who knows? I'll update once I know more.

 

$$$

[Paycheck]

For anyone still paying attention to this thread....

Brought the car BACK to the dealership now that cold weather is here again.  They looked at it last year but couldn't get it to repeat since the weather was just starting to warm up.  This time, the tech was able to replicate the problem (same guy as last March).  He looked at the spark plugs.  Passenger side are both black.  Driver side is good.  So this makes me think it's NOT the AFR sensor.  The tech saw a similar problem on the Mini Coopers when he worked at BMW.  Root cause in that case was thinned out oil causing low oil pressure in the cam gear housing causing the AVCS to get all silly.  He said my oil pressure looked ok, plus even with new oil the problem persists.  Fuel pressure also looks good, so not likely the FPR.

So he thinks it's my intake cam gear.  Maybe all gummed up or starting to seize only in cold weather.

Kind of makes sense to me, but I'm no expert.  Repairs will cost me north of $2k CDN.    And this isn't something I'm prepared to do myself.

If the tech had a sense that "yes for sure, it's this..." then I wouldn't hesitate.  But I'm a little nervous pulling the trigger on these repairs since, in his words, "he's leaning toward the cam gear."  Not exactly a definitive diagnosis.

So I just thought I would check here for any input?  Thanks folks.

$$$

[KZJonny]

Maybe a couple of relatively short OCIs performed with high mileage (high detergent content) synthetic might help to clean things up a little?

Oil system flush is probably not advised with turbo oiling being a concern…

If it was warmer, I’d offer to do the cam gear with you on a weekend. I’m in Niagara, and except for the specific cam gear tool, have all the stuff to do it….

Sounds like you need it done sooner than later and we’re about to get 2 days of rain followed by sub zero for a while. 

[Paycheck]

15 hours ago, KZJonny said:

If it was warmer, I’d offer to do the cam gear with you on a weekend. I’m in Niagara, and except for the specific cam gear tool, have all the stuff to do it….

!!!  Wow, that's quite the offer, thanks.  Yet another reason why I love this community.  If it was 2018 I could have taken you up on that.  My wife took some courses at Brock and I was in the Niagara area regularly.    Oh well.

The reason I asked for feedback was just some reassurance that, yes, it sounds like the tech has a good handle on the issue.  I don't mind paying the money if it solves the problem.  Well...it still stings a little.  That's a lot of cash.  But if it solves the issue, I'll end up happy in the long run.

Thanks again for the input!

$$$

[Tony4]

Hi mate ! Got any update? I've been having the exact same issue for a while and can't find what's causing it !

[Paycheck]

23 hours ago, Tony4 said:

Hi mate ! Got any update? I've been having the exact same issue for a while and can't find what's causing it !

Not yet.  The car is still at the local Subaru dealership.  Been there since late December.  Today is Feb. 11. 

They swapped the cam gear.  Didn't fix it.

The tech has scoped the passenger side cam sensor and it seems the signal is flipping when it acts up.  It could be a magnetized cam, but I don't see why cold weather would cause it, so I'm leaning more toward an electrical issue.  I believe the dealership is about to give up, so when I get it back, if they still haven't solved it, I'll start poking around again.   

I hate just throwing parts at a problem, but my next step will be to just replace the front AFR sensor and see what that does for me.  Aside from that, I'm thinking the wiring harness that goes through the firewall under the intercooler.  That's where both signals from the LH and RH cam sensors are routed.  Maybe something is cross connected in there.  I don't know.  I'm at a total loss and I wish had better news to share.

If you have any success, please post.  I will do the same.

$$$

P.S.  Random question....you don't happen to have a remote start on your car, do you?  Mine has a viper system that was spliced in aftermarket by the previous owner.  I've wondered if that might be part of the problem.

[Tony4]

Thanks for the update mate ! Unfortunately I don't have a remote start on mine so can't tell if it might be a part of the problem 

[Paycheck]

Hi folks.  Still at it, I just wanted to provide an update.

I replaced the AFR sensor and it didn't help with the original issue.  It's also getting worse in terms of temperature.  That is, the problem would usually only manifest in colder weather (below abour 10 deg. C  / 50 deg. F) but now if the temperature is below 20C/70F it struggles to start.  It's still way worse the colder it gets, but still, this is new.  On a positive note, I was proud of myself that I was able to get the old O2 sensor out with virtually no swearing.

Obviously, the dealership couldn't find the issue.  While it was there, however, the tech told me my starter was bad.  I noticed it was acting up once in a while, so I wasn't surprised.  Anyway, he replaced it with a used one ($100) but now this one is starting to act up as well.  I can hear the motor spinning but it seems like the solenoid doesn't engage to crank the motor.  I can't help wondering if it's all related (ie. wiring, bad ground, etc.)

Anyway, still looking at how to sort this out.  Any input would be appreciated.

$$$

 

 

[Brokelikemycars]

Bump! Having a similar issue and also been chasing it for a couple years. Mine is kinda opposite and runs good when cold and bad when at operating temp. P0340 but wouldn't accept new cam sensors and now that the code is gone I have a p0345 for the other side. If I ever find the issue I'll be sure to reply again.

[Paycheck]

Hi folks,

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!  Or more accurately, my 6 year old, nagging, seasonal problem can be permanently (and cheaply) avoided.

Back in May of 2022 I linked a YouTube video discussing the same problem that turned out to be a magnetized camshaft.  Then last year, I got a related text from a friend of mine.  Apparently magnetized camshafts are not uncommon on this generation Legacy.  My guess is that the plastic intake doesn't help, but I also found and fixed some broken ground straps a couple of years ago.  I've only had the car since 2018, so who knows how long they were broken.

Anyway, I decided to buy a gauss meter on Amazon and see if I could get a reading on my camshaft without major work taking off valve covers and stuff. 

https://www.amazon.ca/Devonian-Tesla-Tester-Surface-Magnetic/dp/B09DPPTXH7/ref=sr_1_31?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.YdusPERHMyk0tXkKK9WoccGaM-LM1Cjx5H2zlS2p4VtEIp27zj04B0SpVT_3YuEPSdCm2DmL-ykYIIkDBl1qEVObzmeUTnxGcJbMtN7RPG4pXSTtltKZH81IFLeWYTYdbAjj3qJAIGGFN0SAWmFtUA6v8qT6kogw0oDbJRJ5J5ePcg6dQdOJ10ozXpNTizbby-dXLzrfKQLR2EA5RvlzjvBEDFUTGeNM8h0rjeIiEndb0q5s2EmjVXUZTnjEznAgeKPmy7wK6P_FFBhz9jy6Mah5KYOa5FvRRyI9OiNNFWU.fGcEenY432ukk1Y_ZsaJgUuYYVZkduAORl_k_2BOy8k&dib_tag=se&keywords=gauss+meter&sr=8-31

I removed the camshaft sensor and was able to fit the wand into the hole and get a reading.  While holding the meter just in the air, the value was -1.4 or something like that.  A very low value, anyway.  When I put the wand into the cam sensor hole and wiggled it around the number would change very slightly.  But it DID jump to a positive value at one point, so I thought that was a fairly encouraging indicator, but still not exactly conclusive.  At least not conclusive enough that I wanted to start pulling the engine apart to remove and demagnetize the cam.

Then I remembered that I had a spare sensor from the last time it was replaced.  I left one sensor in the engine so I won't spew oil everywhere and just plugged the connector in the spare sensor I had.  (approx. $100)

The car turned over quite a bit before starting up, but it started.  I let it warm up for a while because that's when the problem would manifest.  But this time it didn't happen.  No issue.  No problems as it warms up.  NOTHING.  I get an engine code, of course, but that's it.  It's been running awesome all winter long.

So I tie wrapped the spare sensor to the power steering hose and left it.  I call it my "cold weather tune".  When the days get warmer, I'll plug the other sensor back in, clear the code and I'm off to the races.

One day I might pull the engine to do the head gaskets and headers, but for now, it's a cheap and easy fix and I'm super thrilled.  Thanks to everyone who contributed their ideas and insight.  And I hope this thread helps someone else with similar issues.

Peace!

$$$

 

[KZJonny]

So.... the camshaft position sensor is only important for startup?

Or are you losing AVCS functionality as long as that sensor is not plugged in? I mean, that's better that it running like poop, but not good for performance, I would assume. 

 

Either way, glad you found a work around for it. What do you think it would take to degauss the cams? I would have thought it could be done in situ, since they're pretty small, and it wouldn't take something super-powerful to build a feild around them where they are, but the process may be more involved than that. My understanding of the physics is better than it's application in real life.

[Paycheck]

I was a little leery when I first tried it.  I assumed it would limp along, have low power, low boost, whatever.  But none of that seems to be the case.  It drives awesome.  Lots of power.  Great acceleration.

I can only guess that the car relies on the crank sensor and the other cam sensor for timing.  Who knows? 

Regarding the cam, I would bring it to a tool shop.  The same friend who sent me the above text owns a company that builds industrial machinery.  They have CNC mills and the tooling gets magnetized all the time causing metal chips to stick to it.  I believe they just place it in a machine that blasts it with a super strong electro-magnet and it kind "erases" any residual magnetic field.

But that's only something I'll worry about if and when I get around to doing the head gaskets.

$$$