All new engine

[xt2005bonbon]

AWD stops working when hot? Interesting...

 

Regarding the Golf R, I am just amazed that you apparently can add a few boltons and you easily get a lot more power out of the car. In terms of reliability though, I have no clue.

[FLlegacy]

One thing I hear about VW is how customize-able the user interfaces are, things like gauge display colors, light settings, auto lock unlock features... a lot of little things that you can change. Unfortunately that complexity comes at a cost in reliability.

 

The focus has all kinds of nannies to "save itself" from wear and tear which is starting to be typical of performance variants with warranty coverage.

[hadvw]

AWD stops working when hot? Interesting...

 

It was published at least half a year ago or more - the rear diff has an oil-temp sensor that disables the diff if it gets too hot. Which apparently happens quite easily on the track. Leaving you with a $40k 345 hp FWD car. If you want to track a lot, probably cheaper/easier to pick up a Civic Type R.

 

Regarding the Golf R, I am just amazed that you apparently can add a few boltons and you easily get a lot more power out of the car. In terms of reliability though, I have no clue.

Sat in one, even though wife and I have sworn off VWs forever, just to do my due diligence. With the seat where I like it, like 4 inches of rear legroom. Maybe. This is a SMALL car. If you don't need the rear legroom, great. If you do, no way.

 

Why not a new WRX or STI? STI has proven transmission/diffs, the weaknesses of the EJ255 are well known and can be avoided. The newer model is just about as big as a Legacy, including lots of rear legroom. It could easily replace the LGT as a daily driver, if I was ok with a manual. Where I used to live, no problem. Here, I'm still up in the air about it.. If I kept the LGT as a 3rd car, probably just fine..

[fahr_side]

Check out the Focus RS forum, some good and bad like any car. I would not be digging the part time awd that stops working when it gets hot...

And then there's Ford depreciation. A new Focus ST was a little cheaper than my WRX when I bought it. Now they're worth about half as much in the used market, if you can find one that still runs.

 

VW I would buy the extended bumper to bumper warranty, actually I would do that for either and never mod them.

 

I don't know about your market but here, once that warranty expires the used price collapses. And even if warranty pays for a new DSG gearbox you're off the road for weeks and months waiting for parts. Warranty work gets lowest priority it seems.

[GEE-OTTO]

I just bought a 2016 CPO Camry SE to replace a 2006 Camry LE which replaced a 1994 Camry XLE. While the 06 was a comfy boat the 2016 is very refined, good power and the "6 speed" CVT drives much more lively than the 17 Legacy 2.5i Touring I test drove recently. The CVT + AWD + 175hp isnt a peppy combo. unless they use the same turbo variant CVT across all models, I dont know if more ponies will solve that lack of driving enjoyment.

 

DIT 2.4L mated to a 6MT like they would get in the Canadian market would be a fun Legacy to drive. I hope more industry insiders continue to tell the SOA CEO that his cars are underpowered and generally boring these days.

[IcEWoLF]

I just bought a 2016 CPO Camry SE to replace a 2006 Camry LE which replaced a 1994 Camry XLE. While the 06 was a comfy boat the 2016 is very refined, good power and the "6 speed" CVT drives much more lively than the 17 Legacy 2.5i Touring I test drove recently. The CVT + AWD + 175hp isnt a peppy combo. unless they use the same turbo variant CVT across all models, I dont know if more ponies will solve that lack of driving enjoyment.

 

DIT 2.4L mated to a 6MT like they would get in the Canadian market would be a fun Legacy to drive. I hope more industry insiders continue to tell the SOA CEO that his cars are underpowered and generally boring these days.

 

This, I bought a 2010 Legacy 2.5i Premium, I've test drove the following years model, 7 years later I haven't seen much of an improvement when it comes down to engine, sure they improved ride quality but the engines haven't seen much love. Same old engine, just few minor improvements and nothing else. I hope this new engine will add few more ponies. I really don't want to downsize to a WRX, but I might do it if I don't see any major improvements within the next year or so.

[dgoodhue]

the engines haven't seen much love. Same old engine, just few minor improvements and nothing else. I hope this new engine will add few more ponies.

 

The new 2.5i engine is completely different than the one in your 2010. Your 2010 has an EJ253, in 2013 the 2.5i motor was replaced with a FB25. It has a smaller bore, longer rods, timing chain, different oiling etc. Lower emission, better fuel economy and tighter specs for 0w20 oil. Supposedly it was also designed with direct injection in mind.

[mrmako]

For me, I'd like Subaru to make a 3.6 flat six variant for performance reasons. Nothing like havng a torque curve that hops up and is available at all rpms.

 

Now, a 300HP Legacy and a 350 STI would work, but sadly Subaru won't do that.

[FLlegacy]

Subaru isn't going to put out a "performance" 3.6 when the engine is going away, especially given the low potential for power and the R&D that would have to go into a one-off niche trim level with no profit margin.

 

And yes subaru has been using the same basic engine architecture for a very long time...and they are killing it in sales...hmmmm they should definitely change their strategy clearly it isn't working.

[mrmako]

Subaru isn't going to put out a "performance" 3.6 when the engine is going away, especially given the low potential for power and the R&D that would have to go into a one-off niche trim level with no profit margin.

 

And yes subaru has been using the same basic engine architecture for a very long time...and they are killing it in sales...hmmmm they should definitely change their strategy clearly it isn't working.

 

If you had driven a 6MT 3.0 you would feel otherwise (did so on a test drive in Japan)

 

But I fully understand reality. 4 cylinder variants are the wave and Subaru is still killing it with Imprezza/WRX/Outback sales. The Legacy is still a good car, but a more sport oriented version would make me trade in my other car.

[FLlegacy]

If you had driven a 6MT 3.0 you would feel otherwise (did so on a test drive in Japan)

 

But I fully understand reality. 4 cylinder variants are the wave and Subaru is still killing it with Imprezza/WRX/Outback sales. The Legacy is still a good car, but a more sport oriented version would make me trade in my other car.

Subaru no longer makes the 3.0 and I do love that engine, however, the 3.6 is more of a midrange motor the one I drove didn't seem to like revving as much as the 3.0. And you also have the issue with offset conrods not being as strong as the 3.0s.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[fedaykin]

Turbo and supercharged 4cyl? Like Volvo's offerings?

[ehsnils]

I wouldn't be surprised if that's where every manufacturer goes.

 

And direct injection as well.

 

As for engines themselves there are still evolution to be done on the combustion chamber design, as can be seen on the truck diesel engine pistons:

http://www.ccjdigital.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/03/IMG_3074-2016-03-23-07-32-500x375.jpg

 

The piston to the right has separations between each spray area from the injector to lower the overly rich mixture that will otherwise occur when the sprays meet.

 

I suspect that this will be something that gasoline engines also will look further into.

[ehsnils]

B.t.w. the other day I saw what was claimed to be an 8-stroke engine. The basic idea of that was similar to a compound steam engine. The goal is to try to achieve engines with a 50% thermal efficiency in order to minimize fuel consumption.

 

I think that we will see a lot more innovative engine designs and also a revisit to old designs that have been ignored earlier, like this patent: http://www.google.com/patents/US5188066 by Alvar Gustavsson

http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US5188066-2.png

The engine is having a smaller opposing piston that varies the compression ratio by a variable offset related to the main crank. Similar to the variable cam timing.

Opposing pistons isn't unique though, but most engines of that type has equally sized pistons in a 2-stroke solution while this has one large and one small that is sharing area with the valves int he head with a 4-stroke solution.

 

One of the wildest opposing piston engines is the Napier Deltic engine found in locomotives:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3bj47TAYiU]Napier Deltic Engine - YouTube[/ame]

[hkshooter]

By now, most know the 3.6 is going away. This week it was confirmed by my source that SIA is talking of the soon to be history 3.6 engine's tooling being eliminated to lower costs and make room for whatever is next.

We also know the three row's engine will be a turbo 4, this was also confirmed. When asked for specifics the source didn't indicate anything other than "turbo" and "2.5".

 

Today I was looking at a new STI, 2.5l turbo at 19mpg average, 17 city, 23 hwy.

If the purpose of moving to 4 bangers is fuel economy, how can they promote and use an engine that gets worse fuel economy than the 3.6? I'm keeping my 3.6 for the foreseeable future.

 

Dealer's manager told me today the 2019 Legacy will be the next gen (7) body. Couple that with a new turbo 4 and it'll be interesting to see what's on the horizon. For me personally, I'll wait to see what kinds of complaints/problems 7th gen and new engine has before possibly replacing my 3.6 in 2020. By then my car will be four years old and have in excess of 120k on the clock, or about half as long as I intended to keep it when I bought it.

[hadvw]

Sounds like you drive A LOT! I'm under 7500 miles/year now, so mpg is one of my least concerns.. Heck, I'm getting around 18 mpg in my LGT.. 23 would be a big improvement!

[Brady]

Today I was looking at a new STI, 2.5l turbo at 19mpg average, 17 city, 23 hwy.

If the purpose of moving to 4 bangers is fuel economy, how can they promote and use an engine that gets worse fuel economy than the 3.6? I'm keeping my 3.6 for the foreseeable future.

 

It's not that the 4 cylinder gets worse gas mileage, it's that the 4 cylinder in the STI is not tuned for gas mileage, nor is the gear box designed to maximize it.

 

The 4 cylinder in the STI puts out more horsepower than the 3.6 in you legacy, and there really aren't too many good ways to make more power without burning more fuel (again, aside from transmission choice).

 

Considering your Legacy makes about 50 fewer horsepower than the STI, and benefits from the superior efficiency of a CVT, color me shocked that the Legacy gets better fuel economy.

[dgoodhue]

It's not that the 4 cylinder gets worse gas mileage, it's that the 4 cylinder in the STI is not tuned for gas mileage, nor is the gear box designed to maximize it.

 

The 4 cylinder in the STI puts out more horsepower than the 3.6 in you legacy, and there really aren't too many good ways to make more power without burning more fuel (again, aside from transmission choice).

 

Considering your Legacy makes about 50 fewer horsepower than the STI, and benefits from the superior efficiency of a CVT, color me shocked that the Legacy gets better fuel economy.

 

In addition the wider sticker summer tires (higher rolling resistance) also do not help either.

[xt2005bonbon]

And the tendency to have a heavy right foot too

[laufu]

By now, most know the 3.6 is going away. This week it was confirmed by my source that SIA is talking of the soon to be history 3.6 engine's tooling being eliminated to lower costs and make room for whatever is next.

We also know the three row's engine will be a turbo 4, this was also confirmed. When asked for specifics the source didn't indicate anything other than "turbo" and "2.5".

 

Today I was looking at a new STI, 2.5l turbo at 19mpg average, 17 city, 23 hwy.

If the purpose of moving to 4 bangers is fuel economy, how can they promote and use an engine that gets worse fuel economy than the 3.6? I'm keeping my 3.6 for the foreseeable future.

 

Dealer's manager told me today the 2019 Legacy will be the next gen (7) body. Couple that with a new turbo 4 and it'll be interesting to see what's on the horizon. For me personally, I'll wait to see what kinds of complaints/problems 7th gen and new engine has before possibly replacing my 3.6 in 2020. By then my car will be four years old and have in excess of 120k on the clock, or about half as long as I intended to keep it when I bought it.

 

The 2.5 in the STI is a very old engine. It is actually older then the 3.6R.

 

Also from the images at the Subaru Ascent concept, it showed a 2.4DIT as the engine powering the Ascent.

[hkshooter]

 

Also from the images at the Subaru Ascent concept, it showed a 2.4DIT as the engine powering the Ascent.

 

Take concept cars with a grain of salt.

[fahr_side]

take subaru's concept cars with a large bucket of salt.

 

 

 

ftfy

[mplsGTR]

I really hope they do something soon with the engines in the Legacy, and it sounds like they will. I've been looking at the Legacy for a few years and i just can't deal with the under powered engines. I want to get rid of the very uninspiring VW Passat 3.6 that i have and i don't want to go to another uninspiring 3.6...

It'd be nice to see something in turbo, which i'm sure it will be as everyone seems to be going that way. Even Honda just announced they are dropping their V6 in the Accord and have been looking to do for the last 5 years. The nice thing about having the turbo is the ability to drop a small tune on it to get that little extra shot of hp/tq out of it if its not quite what you were looking for from the factory.

[hkshooter]

Trust and believe, no matter what Subaru puts in it's next gen Legacy, it'll be in front of a CVT. And that's the crux of the problem.

The power output potential of the 3.6 is there, it's just that the CVT won't handle it. Even with the HTCVT that the 3.6 has the engine is so detuned it's laughable.

Toss in a 300HP DIT four banger and they'll still have to detune to protect the CVT. Until they build a bullet proof CVT or ditch it for a manual or traditional auto Legacy performance numbers will continue to be unimpressive. I guarantee that.

I say if anyone is excited that the Legacy is getting a turbo four in hopes that the car will finally come alive and be respectable, they are in for a big disappointment.

[ehsnils]

The primary reason for the detune is however fuel consumption legislation.

 

 

Someone needs to stress a few CVTs to figure out their weak points and come up with a fix instead.

 

 

But a CVT is a lot smoother in shifting so it can be designed closer to the margin than what a stepped gearbox can.