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Someone needs to stress a few CVTs to figure out their weak points

 

there are a bunch of wrx/foresters running stage 2 protunes and blowing the HDCVT. Its the reason why Cobb does not offer a OTS stage 2 map for CVT FA20DITs. Its just not a strong box. Either subaru brings back the 5eat in revised fashion, maybe with more gears, or they need a new, even stronger CVT, or the Ascent will be a dog due to powertrain limitations.

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there are a bunch of wrx/foresters running stage 2 protunes and blowing the HDCVT. Its the reason why Cobb does not offer a OTS stage 2 map for CVT FA20DITs. Its just not a strong box. Either subaru brings back the 5eat in revised fashion, maybe with more gears, or they need a new, even stronger CVT, or the Ascent will be a dog due to powertrain limitations.

 

I don't think they ever get back to a stepped auto - it's not fuel efficient enough for all other markets. It's more likely that they will strengthen the CVT then. But it could also be interesting to know if all CVTs failed the same way or if the failures were different.

 

Just replacing a gearbox without a post-mortem doesn't improve anything.

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there are a bunch of wrx/foresters running stage 2 protunes and blowing the HDCVT. Its the reason why Cobb does not offer a OTS stage 2 map for CVT FA20DITs. Its just not a strong box. Either subaru brings back the 5eat in revised fashion, maybe with more gears, or they need a new, even stronger CVT, or the Ascent will be a dog due to powertrain limitations.

 

I am not sure you can compare a modified car against a warrantied stock car. However I did do a brief search on CVT Stage 2 WRX's and I glanced at Bellipoten's 2015 WRX build thread on NASIOC. He seems to have had success with his Stage 2 build. 310hp/360TQ. My big take away from his build is the addition of a CVT cooler. I don't think Subaru will abandon the CVT anytime soon and I think the CVT will be fine. I do wish Subaru would bring back SI-Drive.

 

But I do wonder if Subaru will use the the FB instead of the FA as the basis for the new 2.4DIT. The FB16DIT was designed from the start to run on regular unleaded while the FA20DIT can operate on regular but with diminished performance. An Ascent with premium fuel requirement would be a big turn off for buyers.

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I am not sure you can compare a modified car against a warrantied stock car.

 

I'm only using that as an example of the tested limits of the CVT. Any competitive SUv that subaru makes will need to make more than 310hp/360tq, and will have to last like a stock car with those power levels. One anecdotal example of a 2yo modded WRX is meaningless. The box, in its current form is not up to the task for this Ascent unless they keep power below 300hp, and then it will be a Flop.

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I'm only using that as an example of the tested limits of the CVT. Any competitive SUv that subaru makes will need to make more than 310hp/360tq, and will have to last like a stock car with those power levels. One anecdotal example of a 2yo modded WRX is meaningless. The box, in its current form is not up to the task for this Ascent unless they keep power below 300hp, and then it will be a Flop.

 

I can't see Subaru offering a 300hp flat 4 engine for the Ascent that runs on regular unleaded fuel. 250-280hp sounds more realistic.

 

The prototype pictures show the Ascent testing against the Mazda CX9 (227-250hp) and the Ford Explorer (280hp), assuming Subaru was testing with a 2.3 Ecoboost Explorer.

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Except VW Dieselgate put an end to that.

Some cities are already considering a diesel ban here in Europe. Oslo has it already, Copenhagen is thinking about it and so is Paris if I remember correctly.

 

But I still think that the experience that Subaru has gained from the diesel engine could be beneficial for future direct-injected gasoline engines. Maybe the result will be that even though a direct injected engine is specified for gasoline it can run diesel! :p

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I love all the comments about how a CVT just can't handle the power. When Nissan first started offering them back in the early/mid 2000's for the Altima (and I don't know what else) I remember everyone saying that they just can't hold up to (insert whatever kind of bullshit arbitrary measure you want a transmission to handle). Now they're in freaking WRX's with very little issue.

 

But no way they'll keep getting better and be capable of moving an SUV that occasionally tow a boat or a pop up camper. Super off-road capability while towing an excavator to a coal mine, or I won't even think of buying that glorified station wagon.

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I love all the comments about how a CVT just can't handle the power. When Nissan first started offering them back in the early/mid 2000's for the Altima (and I don't know what else) I remember everyone saying that they just can't hold up to (insert whatever kind of bullshit arbitrary measure you want a transmission to handle). Now they're in freaking WRX's with very little issue.

 

 

No one is saying that a CVT couldnt be made to handle the power. I am saying that subaru's current HDCVT cant handle the the power that this Ascent would be required to make in order to handle 300hp and towing reliably, since the HDCVT is known to break at stage 2 power levels on the WRX and ForesterXT.

 

We have heard alot about the potential new 2.4DIT engine for the Ascent, but nothing about its powertrain. So its reasonable to assume that, unless subaru makes a press release about a super heavy duty CVT or a new x-speed fixed gear trans, that the Ascent's power ratings will be underwhelming in order to keep the current HDCVT reliable by OEM production car standards. the WRX makes 265hp for that CVT. 265HP in a 4500lb SUV people will want to use for towing is severely under powered.

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Fair enough, but 1) the car (and it's a car) isn't set to be released until almost a year from now and 2) Subaru has already shown that they don't care about towing capacity as evidenced by the Outback. Can it technically tow 2700 lbs? Sure. But no one is saying it does so effortlessly, nor are they buying that vehicle to do it.

 

And the same goes for the CX-9 which Subaru is CLEARLY targeting (250 hp), the Explorer (which has in some trim levels a towing capacity of just 2000 lbs) and the forthcoming VW Atlas, which tops out at 276 hp.

 

But you're right they'll definitely need 310-350 hp to appease this made up demographic that you have targeted for them in your mind.

 

You want to tow 3500-5000 lbs and do it comfortably? Buy a real truck, and quit pretending that a quirky Japanese car maker known for making safe family movers and the occasional sports sedan is going to suddenly rock the automotive world and build something that's going to compete with a Suburban, Expedition, or 4Runner.

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A 4500lb+ 7-passenger vehicle is a car.......ok.

 

the thing is on the level with the ford explorer. you telling me that a CVT box that fails at 300hp/tq on a 3400lb car, will be reliable on a car weighing 1200lbs more without revisions? All i want is surbaru to say that, for the ascent, they have paired the 2.4DIT with a revised HDCVT that will handle the power, and all my concerns about subaru's limits trans options will be addressed.

 

Subaru is no longer a quirky car maker. they have more mainstreamed designs to gain more market share. the outback is great for mid size CUVs, but the tribecca failed as a SUV. the Ascent is meant to be a real subaru SUV. and with that comes the need for towing and a real 7-seat solution, and the power needed to make it happen, otherwise it will fail like the B9 did.

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The 3.5 explorer is also around 280 hp with FWD I think you are setting yourself up for major disappointment thinking you are going to get anything more than an uber safe appliance as a family hauler.

 

We would love the Ascent but, the Odyssey is hard to beat, our biggest gripes are actually very small. Except the FWD that is a kind of big gripe.

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The rumors I had heard from a Subaru social media person on Facebook had been the Ascent will have a 2.4 Turbo as the sport option. That was her response after I had commented wishing for a 3.6 Turbo or a 4.8 8 cylinder option. This makes me think they will either have a 2.0 Turbo or a 2.4 NA as the base option and a 2.4 Turbo and the sport/limit option. My guess is they would follow a similar line as to what they have done or will do with the Forester trim levels.

 

This is a bit of a bummer IMO because the Ascent will become a people hauler with not much power. I'm not an expert on power and weight but I can't see 7 people plus luggage and a roof rack full being anything but a dog when the 2.4Turbo is limited on power. Maybe they have some new tech coming into this new FA 2.4 Turbo and we could see it having enough power to compete with other economy midsize SUVs.

 

The trend seems to be going towards better overall engine design with the turbo considered from the start. Volkswagen's 1.8L turbocharged engine has water cooled exhaust and the turbo is basically bolted straight to the engine with the housing and manifold combined into one. Several of Subaru's turbo packages now are similar to the Fifth Gen Legacy GT where the turbo is mounted center low front with equal length headers. EL is technically more efficient and that turbo location is much better at dissipating heat out of the engine bay. Combine this with 8 years or tech and why couldn't we see 300hp? Anecdotally; when my car was dyno tuned the emissions tested better. If Subaru is is planning their new engine start to finish with turbo efficiency in mind it's possible it could work and the Ascent could feel sporty with CVT behaving like a torque converted when the gas is punched.

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Everything I have read suggests it will be a single engine option, no word on the transmission yet, but I doubt it will be groundbreaking news in any case. The CX9 is making do with a 2.4T I don't see any other competitors blowing the doors off those performance numbers. The SUV segment in general is inherently slow due to size, weight, and comfort over sportiness.

 

A twin scroll turbo could easily provide enough torque to make the Ascent feel adequately powered, and I would expect adequate is probably what the aim is for.

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"I'm not an expert on power and weight but I can't see 7 people plus luggage and a roof rack full being anything but a dog when ..."

 

I'm sorry, maybe I missed the announcement of NASCAR's Family Truckster Racing Series, but we're talking a bout a f***ing min-van here. You people in this thread crack me up on the daily! :lol:

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"I'm not an expert on power and weight but I can't see 7 people plus luggage and a roof rack full being anything but a dog when ..."

 

I'm sorry, maybe I missed the announcement of NASCAR's Family Truckster Racing Series, but we're talking a bout a f***ing min-van here. You people in this thread crack me up on the daily! :lol:

 

I wasn't implying it was a contender for your NASCAR Family Truckster Racing Series. I have been in SUVs that felt sporty and SUVs that felt like it couldn't pass a semi going up hill.

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