Your favorite TMIC and why..

[oODanKNesSOo]

The three I like are Perrin, Mishimoto, and GrimmSpeed..

 

While the AVO is nice, it's smallest and more expensive then the Mishimoto; which appears to also be smaller then the other 2? GrimmSpeed is a nice setup but of course the most expensive- around 1K, where I've found the other 2 for under 800$.

 

I'm leaning towards Mishimoto, unless there's a clear reason to go Perrin instead. Not sure if the powder coated ones stay any cooler then raw, so I'm still researching to see which I go with.

 

 

I HAVE searched... threads from 2009 hardly seem relevant now though. Thanks for any input!

[solidxsnake]

Perrin, because it was free (well, included with my car)! On a serious note, the Perrin fitment is god-awful. Not worth it, at all.

 

But seriously, for a TMIC, either the Process West (discontinued), or the GrimmSpeed are my picks. If I really needed a TMIC upgrade (stage 3+), I would spend the extra couple of hundred and get the GS. Otherwise, I'd just stick with the stock (and probably BP'd) TMIC. I like the design of those TMICs (and I guess the FMS as well, not sure of others with the same style), in that they don't bolt directly to the turbo flange, but adapt it to a nipple fitting instead.

[oODanKNesSOo]

To be fair, even the stock IC fits like $#!+... and I think the bulletproofing is cool and all- but isn't it like polishing a turd? A turd is a turd in my experience... no matter how pretty you paint it!

 

My current goals is to take it as far as I can on the stock turbo (stage 2+ on Cobb so with a custom tune), and upgrade the suspension and handling aspects as I save towards better fuel system and turbo.

 

While I may not need a tmic now (bulletproof would be a minimum requirement) I know it will help in the long run.

 

So I guess I'm back to Grimm speed- buy right buy once philosophy.

[762x39]

GrimmSpeed, Becauses It installs extremely easily and logically, looks awesome, and the BPV is side mounted so you dont have to worry about clearance issues with the hood. Not to mention the heat soak was reduced by at least half, and it yields significant gains for a top mount. Would Buy Again!

[dahoseman]

I like the Process West (errrr, knockoff <cough> ....) style that I have.

1) works well

2) Allows no-hastle switch between STI-style turbos (using alternate/adapter hose)

3) Very easily installed/uninstalled.

 

Regarding ease of install, I actually removed and reinstalled the intercooler in a parking lot one day while waiting for people in a store. I was checking to see if a noise was a boost leak (it wasn't), so I popped it out and back in over the course of about 10min

[GrimmSpeed]

I like the GrimmSpeed one

 

Here's a little bit that I wrote about it in a thread just a few threads down from this one: http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5357718&postcount=19

 

And you're right, it is a little more expensive than the alternatives here, but as you've already identified that is because the quality, design, and core is a lot better. I have personally tested the other intercoolers mentioned in this thread, and specifically regarding the other "popular oversized replacement TMIC," we've presented this data:

 

http://www.grimmspeed.com/content/images/tmic_subaru_0814_20_original.jpg

 

Usually if an intercooler has a lower pressure drop, it will not offer better cooling. However, here we see that is not the case as our intercooler offers lower pressure drop, and better heat rejection. This is really a testament to our core design.

 

I should also mention that ours has an LGT specific splitter, and we also offer a turbo outlet hose to adapt to STI style turbos.

 

There is already a ton of good info out there about our intercooler, and tons of recommendations from tuners as well as people on this site, so I won't drag on too much more. But do feel free to let me know if you have any specific questions!

 

Chase

Engineering

[BarManBean]

Only options I would recommend for these cars is stock, bullet-proofed stock, or a Process West / Grimmspeed model. Perrin / Avo fitment leaves a lot to be desired.

 

You mention that OEM fits poorly as well--this is incorrect in my experience which is extensive enough in dealing with OEM TMIC installation to know that they all fit extremely well with stock TB hoses.

 

And "polishing a turd" doesn't apply IMO either. The stock TMIC is quite good at what it does, which is support a smallish turbo setup with minimal heat soak. It's not the best part for all setups, but not all setups require more than what the stock TMIC can deliver.

[gimpydingo]

Perrin, because it was free (well, included with my car)! On a serious note, the Perrin fitment is god-awful. Not worth it, at all.

 

But seriously, for a TMIC, either the Process West (discontinued), or the GrimmSpeed are my picks. If I really needed a TMIC upgrade (stage 3+), I would spend the extra couple of hundred and get the GS. Otherwise, I'd just stick with the stock (and probably BP'd) TMIC. I like the design of those TMICs (and I guess the FMS as well, not sure of others with the same style), in that they don't bolt directly to the turbo flange, but adapt it to a nipple fitting instead.

 

Only options I would recommend for these cars is stock, bullet-proofed stock, or a Process West / Grimmspeed model. Perrin / Avo fitment leaves a lot to be desired.

 

You mention that OEM fits poorly as well--this is incorrect in my experience which is extensive enough in dealing with OEM TMIC installation to know that they all fit extremely well with stock TB hoses.

 

And "polishing a turd" doesn't apply IMO either. The stock TMIC is quite good at what it does, which is support a smallish turbo setup with minimal heat soak. It's not the best part for all setups, but not all setups require more than what the stock TMIC can deliver.

 

I got a Perrin TMIC not that long, no fitment issues. Easy enough to line up. I removed the plastic bracket that holds the wire harness as well.

[tocinoman25]

My vote goes to BP'd TMIC. Because it was very effective supporting 19.5 psi for 2 years and can't beat the price. Plus I didn't spend so much monies on my car with supporting mods. Now that I has GS, bigger turbo, injectors, clutch etc etc list won't friggin stop at that bwahahaha damn money pit now

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Shogun506]

So at what point do you start requiring (or are able to extract gains from) a new intercooler? I wasn't thinking about getting one any time soon but I saw a Perrin come up in the classifieds and almost bought it. I'm Cobb stage 2 with turboback and a couple of extra mods here and there ie; uppipe etc.

Would I see any gains from just a TMIC with/without a tune and is it required at this stage or not until I change to a bigger turbo?

[solidxsnake]

So at what point do you start requiring (or are able to extract gains from) a new intercooler? I wasn't thinking about getting one any time soon but I saw a Perrin come up in the classifieds and almost bought it. I'm Cobb stage 2 with turboback and a couple of extra mods here and there ie; uppipe etc.

Would I see any gains from just a TMIC with/without a tune and is it required at this stage or not until I change to a bigger turbo?

 

Depends how much boost you are running. In any case, you won't see any gains from just upgrading the TMIC. All an upgraded intercooler will do is allow you to run more aggressive timing/fueling/AVCS maps, based on how beneficially it impacts your intake charge temp delta (from turbo outlet to IC outlet).

[GrimmSpeed]

So at what point do you start requiring (or are able to extract gains from) a new intercooler? I wasn't thinking about getting one any time soon but I saw a Perrin come up in the classifieds and almost bought it. I'm Cobb stage 2 with turboback and a couple of extra mods here and there ie; uppipe etc.

Would I see any gains from just a TMIC with/without a tune and is it required at this stage or not until I change to a bigger turbo?

 

Depends how much boost you are running. In any case, you won't see any gains from just upgrading the TMIC. All an upgraded intercooler will do is allow you to run more aggressive timing/fueling/AVCS maps, based on how beneficially it impacts your intake charge temp delta (from turbo outlet to IC outlet).

 

Well said^^^

 

Also, it is definitely beneficial if you're doing any sort of repeated pulls, or track time. The stock intercooler does a pretty damn good job for one pull for the most part. It has a very low thermal mass, so it's able to reject heat quickly because it absorbs it quickly. But the obvious double edged sword here is that it'll heat soak just as fast.

 

Probably one of the coolest things you might get to do as far as dyno testing and TMICs is to place your hand on your stock intercooler after you've done about 3 pulls. It'll be quite hot, even with a fan blowing directly on it. Now when we've switched to our very own TMIC, and done 3 pulls (even at 500+ whp levels), and place your hand on the intercooler it is still cool to the touch. I encourage you to give it a shot if your tuner lets you.

 

Chase

Engineering

[762x39]

GrimmSpeed TMIC doubles as BLING IMO! Its the Total Focal Point when you pop the hood! Just Sexy.

[bigleben]

The GS and PW having a silicone hose between turbo outlet and IC inlet makes a big difference against heatsoak.

 

I had the Perrin and if I idled couple of minutes after driving hard, the IC would be really hot VS the GS barely warm on the IC hot side. Both were used with reflective tape on + turbo blanket + GS heatsheild.

 

The Perrin was a pain to install even with studs in the turbo flange.

IMHO buying a new Perrin/AVO/mishimoto (which looks exactly the same) tmic is a big waste of money!

 

GS/PW or stay with the BP oem TMIC unless you score on a used one.

[shralp]

Never understood the fitment issues people had with the Perrin unit, I've never had an issue. Even if I did, How many times do you guys yank your IC out? I think two times in 8 years for me. That said, this was way before the Grimmspeed option was a reality and without a doubt it's the best choice for those of us that want to stay top mount but maximize gains when going Stage 3 and further. Once I move to top feed / 1000cc injectors / and most likely a Blouch 1.5 or 2.5xtr the Grimmspeed will be on the build list.

[discojon]

Favorite? The Process West followed up by the Grimm Speed. Finding a PW is next to impossible however. The GS looks like a nice piece of kit. Having said that, I'm currently running a FMS PW knockoff TMIC. I will be the first to admit, the fitment was absolutely disgusting, until i fixed it. There was particulate still in the end tanks when I got it, and the bypass valve holes protruded into the core creating a leak. Once these things were fixed though, it has held up great over the last 2.5 years at 22 psi. I haven't had any issues with heat soak and it has even seen a few auto-x days. For the price (~$400), I'd probably buy it again though.

[oODanKNesSOo]

Thanks for all the replies- and GrimmSpeed for the actual data!!!

 

I've narrowed it down to BP or GrimmSpeed or fmic... I will likely go BP until the building plans develop into an actual NEED to upgrade... but thanks again for all the personal experiences.

 

 

*I've only removed my stocker once, and compared to the fmics I've done on working class trucks- getting the stocker to line up and in the rubber cupler on the TB- was a pita! Sure I might've turned the cupler a degree or two- but it definitely took longer then the 35 seconds it should've!

[GrimmSpeed]

The GS and PW having a silicone hose between turbo outlet and IC inlet makes a big difference against heatsoak.

 

I had the Perrin and if I idled couple of minutes after driving hard, the IC would be really hot VS the GS barely warm on the IC hot side. Both were used with reflective tape on + turbo blanket + GS heatsheild.

 

The Perrin was a pain to install even with studs in the turbo flange.

IMHO buying a new Perrin/AVO/mishimoto (which looks exactly the same) tmic is a big waste of money!

 

GS/PW or stay with the BP oem TMIC unless you score on a used one.

 

You make a really good point that I consistently forget to post, so thank you for adding that! Removing the intercooler itself from being in direct contact with the turbo does make a massive difference with heatsoak through conduction.

 

Never understood the fitment issues people had with the Perrin unit, I've never had an issue. Even if I did, How many times do you guys yank your IC out? I think two times in 8 years for me. That said, this was way before the Grimmspeed option was a reality and without a doubt it's the best choice for those of us that want to stay top mount but maximize gains when going Stage 3 and further. Once I move to top feed / 1000cc injectors / and most likely a Blouch 1.5 or 2.5xtr the Grimmspeed will be on the build list.

 

I think the majority of fitment issues might come from that damn outlet hose. If you don't have it clocked correctly (and its nearly impossible to tell if you do) things just don't fit right. Even when you're doing the stock intercooler, if you made the mistake of removing that hose without marking it, you have to remove and install the intercooler a few times before you get it right.

 

Favorite? The Process West followed up by the Grimm Speed. Finding a PW is next to impossible however. The GS looks like a nice piece of kit. Having said that, I'm currently running a FMS PW knockoff TMIC. I will be the first to admit, the fitment was absolutely disgusting, until i fixed it. There was particulate still in the end tanks when I got it, and the bypass valve holes protruded into the core creating a leak. Once these things were fixed though, it has held up great over the last 2.5 years at 22 psi. I haven't had any issues with heat soak and it has even seen a few auto-x days. For the price (~$400), I'd probably buy it again though.

 

Yes, please for the sake of your own engines, if you do decide to buy a low quality intercooler make sure to go through the end tanks and make sure it's not still full of sand/metal/crap, because they usually are. You do not want that going into your intake manifold.

 

Sad to say, but make sure to do that on some of the "quality" ones you buy too.

 

Thanks for all the replies- and GrimmSpeed for the actual data!!!

 

I've narrowed it down to BP or GrimmSpeed or fmic... I will likely go BP until the building plans develop into an actual NEED to upgrade... but thanks again for all the personal experiences.

 

 

*I've only removed my stocker once, and compared to the fmics I've done on working class trucks- getting the stocker to line up and in the rubber cupler on the TB- was a pita! Sure I might've turned the cupler a degree or two- but it definitely took longer then the 35 seconds it should've!

 

No problem! I think you're making an excellent choice. There are a few reasons to upgrade your TMIC, and if you don't feel you need one for performance reasons right now, and are simply looking for longevity, the BP mod is a good idea!

 

Chase

Engineering

[derp]

I vote Grimmspeed, but I'm completely biased as I know several of the folks that work there, they're a local company to me, and they have used my car for developing a couple of legacy-specific parts

 

Pop my hood and it's like a ******* GS billboard. Speaking of which... I need that alternator cover. Finally going to ditch the Subtle.

 

Also, I figure the more legacy-specific stuff people buy, the more likely they are to keep developing new parts for the platform which I want.

[dahoseman]

Yes, please for the sake of your own engines, if you do decide to buy a low quality intercooler make sure to go through the end tanks and make sure it's not still full of sand/metal/crap, because they usually are. You do not want that going into your intake manifold.

 

This is no joke. While I still hate to admit that I have a "knockoff" FMS version of the PW unit (someone else was selling it is how I justify it to myself), I will definitely say that they are not equivalent pieces in any way. Besides probably not being as efficient, I definitely had castings and other little metal particulate in my intercooler when I got it. I set it outside at an angle and let a garden hose run through it for a while before blasting air through and wiping it out.

 

If I were to go ahead and switch at this point, I would definitely go with one of the GrimmSpeed options.

[runningbird]

I just bought the GS unit. I was using the BP setup, but it still started leaking.

putting the new one on today.

[covertrussian]

The GS and PW having a silicone hose between turbo outlet and IC inlet makes a big difference against heatsoak.

 

This is an excellent point and probably why OEM intercooler is so good even compared to some aftermarkets.. With plastic end tanks no heat conduction going on.

[Phillip J. Fry]

ive only used stock then avo. everyone said avo fit well. so i went with that. been dyno tuned on it etc. looks stock under the engine cover. good for 400chp. more than enough cooling for the stock turbo.

[Tuning Alliance]

We like grimmspeed or process wests for a TMIC on these cars, that being said a FMIC will always be more efficient and provide more power. What's great about the grimmspeed is it comes with the splitter which helps to divert air (PW does too, but they discontinued making for the legacy). You're going to get heat soak no matter what at idle at light, but with the splitter when you start moving it'll cool the core quicker. Also they are pretty beefy.

 

If anyone wants pricing on some, feel free to send me a PM!

 

-Brian