CovertRussian's 05 LGT Build Thread

[covertrussian]

Got all of the parts that I needed in to get a custom line going. The initial goal was to use the line like this.

 

Black line would go to AVCS, and the other two lines would go to the turbo and oil pressure gauge. This way my gauge sees what the turbo pre-restrictor sees.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/covertrussian/Cars/05%20LGT/Turbo/Lines/Oil/20151223_131240.jpg~original

 

I barely got the turbo oil hardline off the main hard line. See how it's rusty, I've had suspensions that it might be leaking from age.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/covertrussian/Cars/05%20LGT/Turbo/Lines/Oil/20151223_135726.jpg~original

 

I tried to remove it as a whole, but without pulling the inlet and the manifold I don't think that's possible, now I'm at the point of no return...

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/covertrussian/Cars/05%20LGT/Turbo/Lines/Oil/20151223_150610.jpg~original

 

Attached the banjo and found out that my tee doesn't clear the turbo...

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/covertrussian/Cars/05%20LGT/Turbo/Lines/Oil/20151223_150837.jpg~original

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/covertrussian/Cars/05%20LGT/Turbo/Lines/Oil/20151223_131315.jpg~original

 

Back to the drawing board, otherwise this car is down for a long while due to the limited shipping times over the holidays. Came up with this:

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/covertrussian/Cars/05%20LGT/Turbo/Lines/Oil/20151223_153925.jpg~original

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/covertrussian/Cars/05%20LGT/Turbo/Lines/Oil/20151223_153931.jpg~original

 

Next order of business, oil restrictor since I'm still on VF40. My VF39 line kit comes with a .065" hole, while stock is .057". Problem with this line kit the turbo banjo is 12mm tall, while stock is 10mm. Which means using the stock bolt there isn't as much thread to go into the turbo. Since VF40's are picky on over oiling, I still used the stock bolt, looks to be holding fine.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/covertrussian/Cars/05%20LGT/Turbo/Lines/Oil/20151223_155504.jpg~original

 

Oil feed banjo in and line attached, I reused the stock banjo bolts, for some reason couldn't align the new ones and gave up.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/covertrussian/Cars/05%20LGT/Turbo/Lines/Oil/20151223_164739.jpg~original

 

All hooked up, I know it's a mess, but this is a proof of concept, I'll be getting shorter lines later, maybe in -6an depending on how well AVCS works.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/covertrussian/Cars/05%20LGT/Turbo/Lines/Oil/20151223_171120.jpg~original

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/covertrussian/Cars/05%20LGT/Turbo/Lines/Oil/20151223_171146.jpg~original

 

 

Testing

Driving around the right AVCS seems to be within the same range as it was before. The right side (which I'm thinking is the passenger side), tends to be higher then the left side, this was the case still even with the new line. So far it looks like -4an line is sufficient afterall. I think the really high oil psi is the reason -4an seems to be sufficient, the car is constantly at 60psi with the oil I'm running (Valvoline synthetic 5w30)

Edited January 17, 2016 by covertrussian

[covertrussian]

Well that was interesting, my car started making a subtle whine from the passenger side. Worried about turbo oil starvation I removed the second tee yesterday.

 

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/covertrussian/Cars/05%20LGT/Turbo/Lines/Oil/20151228_132147.jpg~original

 

I think it worked, but I haven't gotten my oil as hot as I got it on the other days. Since my oil pressure gauge was reading very healthy oil pressures, I wonder if the issue was with cold starts and the amount of time it takes to fill the extra tee and lines with oil. The blue tee that I used is a universal 1/8NPT which has around -8an inside size, so I could see that being the issue. But it should go away after the car has been running for a few minutes.

Edited January 17, 2016 by covertrussian

[covertrussian]

Just a little teaser with what I've been doing on my breaks form working on the house (digging trenches and insulation fun).

 

It's a big 16G with ported 8cm housing

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=222348&stc=1&d=1451975797

 

You can really see how much bigger the Big 16g is when you look at the exhaust wheel and housing.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=222366&stc=1&d=1452010123

 

I got it installed and have been running it for last couple days, it's a beast when the clutch can grip. I gotta see if I can find a 6psi gate for this (comes with 12-14psi gate right now).

 

Install pics will follow in the next couple days when I get free time to upload and resize.

Edited January 5, 2016 by covertrussian

[rebourne]

Going to have to update that signature once it's all sorted! And new clutch time?

 

Excuse my ignorance, but what makes a 16G a "big" 16G?

 

That looks huge next to the vf40! Thanks for that pic!

[covertrussian]

Going to have to update that signature once it's all sorted! And new clutch time?

 

Excuse my ignorance, but what makes a 16G a "big" 16G?

 

That looks huge next to the vf40! Thanks for that pic!

 

I have a new clutch, exedy stage 1, just need to get a single mass flywheel then decide if it's easier to pull engine or the transmission .

 

Big 16g flows a bit more then small one, it's basically an 18g that's faster spooling. This thread has a ton of good information: http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208193

EDIT: That thread talks about a regular Big 16g, I actually have an Evo 3 Big 16g which is better then the regular version.

 

I just uploaded the exhaust housing side, you can see how huge the turbine wheel is in comparison. The best part is, it's only 200rpm slower to full boost! I got some virtual dyno's to show for it, over 35whp gains on 2psi more

Edited January 7, 2016 by covertrussian

[rebourne]

I have a new clutch, exedy stage 1, just need to get a single mass flywheel then decide if it's easier to pull engine or the transmission .

 

Big 16g flows a bit more then small one, it's basically an 18g that's faster spooling. This thread has a ton of good information: http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208193

There goes my morning productivity!

 

The best part is, it's only 200rpm slower to full boost! I got some virtual dyno's to show for it, over 35whp gains on 2psi more

 

That does sound tasty! Is that with any tuning or just plug and play? What's your ultimate boost target?

 

I'm in turbo info + clutch combo collecting mode. I've got forged pistons, so I could run a Dom 1.5XTR, but can I slug through infamous LA traffic five days a week on the clutch necessary to hold the power? The conservative side of me says a 16G or 18G and a nice easy clutch is as high as I should aim for. Still collecting info for the other side of me

[Rhitter]

That just gives you a reason to do a 6spd swap....

 

@covert what intercooler and fueling (injectors? pump?) are you running with your big 16g?

Edited January 5, 2016 by Rhitter

[Flinkly]

The conservative side of me says a 16G or 18G and a nice easy clutch is as high as I should aim for.

 

is there ANY clutch other than stock/OEM that IS easy? or lasts longer than a year/12k?

 

I need a new clutch for planned 350tq territory and have no idea which to get, as they all sound nearly equally terrible...

 

the only good thing with me and my driving is that i'd probably only unleash 350 on my clutch a few times a year.

[rebourne]

is there ANY clutch other than stock/OEM that IS easy? or lasts longer than a year/12k?

 

I need a new clutch for planned 350tq territory and have no idea which to get, as they all sound nearly equally terrible...

 

the only good thing with me and my driving is that i'd probably only unleash 350 on my clutch a few times a year.

 

Max Capacity says yes:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/time-clutch-but-which-onei-248449.html

 

Watching this thread too:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/competition-clutch-stage-3-review-240968.html

 

I drive 10k a year, so if I can get easy, 3 years between clutches and 400 ft-lb holding, I'd take that balance. I'd then be open to whatever turbo fits my budget.

Edited January 5, 2016 by rebourne
more talking about myself

[rebourne]

That just gives you a reason to do a 6spd swap....

 

@covert what intercooler and fueling (injectors? pump?) are you running with your big 16g?

 

Honestly I've been thinking of looking at the numbers for a new aftermarket clutch, and Moore blast plates versus a six speed with the stock clutch. somehow I think I can trick myself into that making sense... but if so, I'd get a lightly used 16 or 18G for now and see how long i can baby my current clutch of unknown brand/miles. while i save for all that 6mt parts...

Edited January 5, 2016 by rebourne
added Moore blast plates

[BarManBean]

Honestly I've been thinking of looking at the numbers for a new aftermarket clutch, versus a six speed with the stock clutch. somehow I think I can trick myself into that making sense... but if so, I'd get a lightly used 16 or 18G for now and see how long i can baby my current clutch of unknown brand/miles. while i save for all that 6mt parts...

 

I went aftermarket clutch (FX350) and it was bad enough that I swapped to a 6mt with a stock STi clutch 2k miles later

 

No regrets. Except for the FX350--ugh, that thing was horrible.

[covertrussian]

There goes my morning productivity!

 

 

 

That does sound tasty! Is that with any tuning or just plug and play? What's your ultimate boost target?

 

I'm in turbo info + clutch combo collecting mode. I've got forged pistons, so I could run a Dom 1.5XTR, but can I slug through infamous LA traffic five days a week on the clutch necessary to hold the power? The conservative side of me says a 16G or 18G and a nice easy clutch is as high as I should aim for. Still collecting info for the other side of me

 

I'm not gonna run too much 16psi tops probably. For now I'll be happy with even 7psi if the clutch holds it. My wg arm popped off, so I figured I would do a virtual dyno, about 170whp building 1psi .

 

That just gives you a reason to do a 6spd swap....

 

@covert what intercooler and fueling (injectors? pump?) are you running with your big 16g?

 

Noooo not gonna pay $5k just for that, I would buy spec b and sell this car before that happens. Unless I can get 6speed for $1k .

 

I have a DW65c sitting on a shelf, for now running everything stock even intercooler. This is why I'm gonna be running low amount of boost. I did this to see if my fuel economy would improve over power gains

 

I went aftermarket clutch (FX350) and it was bad enough that I swapped to a 6mt with a stock STi clutch 2k miles later

 

No regrets. Except for the FX350--ugh, that thing was horrible.

 

I hope my Exedy stage 1 is not that bad, I've had very good luck with exedy clutches on my Nissan. I run a 350z 250mm Exedy Stage 1 on my 6 speed swapped G20, can hold well over 300whp and it's not that much harder then stock. Stock disk is 215mm

[rebourne]

Big 16g flows a bit more then small one, it's basically an 18g that's faster spooling. This thread has a ton of good information: http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208193

 

 

That link spends pages talking about why the small 16g and the Evo3 16g are better than the big 16G... But they are all on 2.0 L motors. Your take is that the big 16G is a faster spooling 18G, right? Almost confused... but not quite, yet.

[StkmltS]

That link spends pages talking about why the small 16g and the Evo3 16g are better than the big 16G... But they are all on 2.0 L motors. Your take is that the big 16G is a faster spooling 18G, right? Almost confused... but not quite, yet.

I'm with you, they all seemed to be bashing the big 16g.

One guy said something like "if you're buying new, get a small 16g. If you buy used, either is good."

[doobaruGT]

is there ANY clutch other than stock/OEM that IS easy? or lasts longer than a year/12k?

 

I need a new clutch for planned 350tq territory and have no idea which to get, as they all sound nearly equally terrible...

 

the only good thing with me and my driving is that i'd probably only unleash 350 on my clutch a few times a year.

 

Many folks have had great luck with Exedy; I did not. However, looking back and being honest, I don't think it was the clutch. I think it was my fault for not properly breaking it in. Once I burned through that clutch in about 65k I went looking and settled on a Comp stg 2 (with a proper break-in )

 

I'm approaching 200k and had the clutch in for about 75k, 30k of which has been at stg 3 (335 whp). I've had no issues other than ignoring the chatter. Clutch holds like a champ.

 

All that's to say that you should be skeptical of personal reviews. Not only are they anecdotal (mine included), but much of its longevity depends on the driver. I think most people want to avoid the humility and blame the manufacturer.

 

Choose wisely

[covertrussian]

That link spends pages talking about why the small 16g and the Evo3 16g are better than the big 16G... But they are all on 2.0 L motors. Your take is that the big 16G is a faster spooling 18G, right? Almost confused... but not quite, yet.

 

Yeah that's a bad link, looks like they are bashing it for 2.0's, on my Legacy it's not bad at all with lag. It's amazing having the power/torque pull to redline like it does.

 

Also apparently there is a difference between Big 16g and Evo 3 Big 16g (which is what I have). Here is a great post comparing the two compressor wheels. Basically Evo 3 wheel is lighter (faster spool) and has thinner blades thus flows better.

 

 

Here's the product page for my turbo: http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/kinugawaturbosubarulegacyforesterlibertywrx08-td05h-16greplaceihivf40vf46vf52.aspx

[covertrussian]

I bought this turbo in 2014, the guy that sold couldn't figure out why it wasn't building more then 10psi. Upon receival of the turbo (which was piss poor packaged and ended up with some bent lines), I instantly saw what was wrong.

 

The turbine housing is way too big, it's probably off a TD06 turbine wheel.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260876&stc=1&d=1516285417

 

For next couple months I searched for an 8cm TD05 housing. I was getting ready to buy one Kinugawa's ebay page when I found a ported and painted one from a real Mitsubishi one. This is the proper spacing of turbine wheel and housing.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260881&stc=1&d=1516285417

 

Here's the EvoIII Big16g vs a spare dead VF40 that I had laying around. Everything about the Big16 is bigger then the VF40, especially the turbine wheel.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260878&stc=1&d=1516285417

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260879&stc=1&d=1516285417

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260877&stc=1&d=1516285417

 

You can see another spot that the previous owner of the turbine housing ported out. Overall he did a pretty good job.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260880&stc=1&d=1516285417

 

 

Turbo Install

Finally time to remove and install the turbo. Pulled the intercooler

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260894&stc=1&d=1516285556

 

Heatshield removed, downpipe unbolted, oil fill and drain clamp loosened, and inlet worm clamp loosened.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260882&stc=1&d=1516285556

 

After that just pulled the turbo out, I really don't know why I didn't do this earlier last year. Took about an hour tops to remove the old turbo, though it did take much longer to dig out the oil hard lines (which I did a week before doing this).

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260883&stc=1&d=1516285556

 

Here's the VF40, it's actually in pretty good condition and with very minimal shaft play. This is surprising because the banjo bolt was pretty clogged and killed the first turbo. The drain line had a hole in it, you can see it form the oil everywhere. I believe this is what's causing my oil consumption (1qt every 3k miles).

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260884&stc=1&d=1516285556

 

Using a pretty heavy duty oil hose as a replacement. This hose is much tighter, so the 3-4 times I had to pull the turbo out to shave it to fit was a pitta!

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260886&stc=1&d=1516285556

 

Got a new thicker gasket (probably GS), came with an uppipe that I got from a forum member.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260885&stc=1&d=1516285556

 

16G ready to go in

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260887&stc=1&d=1516285556

 

Or so I thought, it has a few issues that I had to fix with an angle grinder... First the one was getting one of the nuts on the turbine housing wasn't really possible. I really don't know why they didn't just slit it higher to begin with...

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260888&stc=1&d=1516285556

 

Next fun was with the oil feed line, compressor housing has a mount similar to stock turbos for water lines (though it's unused), thus this was useless anyway...

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260889&stc=1&d=1516285556

 

Turbo is in, now is time to hook everything back up.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260890&stc=1&d=1516285556

 

Water lines had to be bent a little to fit better with the stock rubber hoses, the top one is still a little too long, I might trim it down. Oil lines attached and downpipe is ready to be bolted on.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260891&stc=1&d=1516285556

 

Everything bolted up and good to go, at least for that night. Intercooler took some convincing to go on, I used my old one incase the extra tension cracks it.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260895&stc=1&d=1516285674

 

I found out that the outlet threads were stripped pretty badly, I tried to drill it out and tap it to a 10mm bolt, when that failed resorted to using a through bolt/nut setup

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260892&stc=1&d=1516285674

 

 

Conclusion

The 16g is about 300rpm slower to 13.4psi then the VF40, it still hit full boost by 3450rpm though. Overall I can barely notice the extra lag, the turbo pulls to redline much better then the VF40. I did some virtual dyno's but didn't realize that I used different tunes, so will have to do some more runs with the same tune to have a more of an apples to apples comparison.

 

On highway I found at the turbo boosted a bit easier then the VF40, this could be because I'm not running a boost controller at all and a 12psi wastegate spring (I can't seem to find a 6psi one for a 16g).

 

Gas mileage wise, my city gas mileage is up a few points even with the freezing temps here. I got 19.4mpg with wastegate arm disconnected, 18.8mpg driving it semi nicely with WG reconnected, and 17.8mpg dogging it which is impressive in it's own.

 

As for highway, I got 27.92mpg highway today, previously I got 27.5mpg with slightly warmer temps. I expected a little better but my fuel pump seal has been leaking fuel so that's probably loosing me a few points.

 

Gas Mileage Update: This turbo needs much less highway timing, previously I was running 45* max at 70mph, with turbo Once I got down to 38-40* range my gas mileage went back up into the 29-30's. Just last week I got 31.3mpg and that's after removing all the heatshields.

 

 

Update: Here is the VF40 vs Big 16g UNTUNED virtual dyno, this road is slightly slopped up thus the power was down for both runs. As you can it is about 300rpm slower to full boost, also the ~10hp power boost could be coming from 16G running 1-2psi more at peak power.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260893&stc=1&d=1516285674

 

Update2: After re-tuning the timing map this turbo really started to shine, pulls light a freight train now!

Edited January 18, 2018 by covertrussian

[rebourne]

oooh, so many pretty pictures!

[Rhitter]

How are you tuning for the different turbos / are you tuning for them?

[covertrussian]

When I built my Stage 2 tune I expanded it out to 3.20g/s, basically plenty of room to grow into. When I did my very first WOT pull on this turbo my AFR's were still good (under 11 at all times), and learning views didn't have any knock. At 13.5psi I'm hitting 2.65g/s and 90% IDC (injector duty cycle), with stock turbo and similar boost it was 2.50g/s and 80% IDC.

 

Overall my stage 2 tune seems fine, just needs to be fine tuned a little bit.

[rhino6303]

When I built my Stage 2 tune I expanded it out to 3.20g/s, basically plenty of room to grow into. When I did my very first WOT pull on this turbo my AFR's were still good (under 11 at all times), and learning views didn't have any knock. At 13.5psi I'm hitting 2.65g/s and 90% IDC (injector duty cycle), with stock turbo and similar boost it was 2.50g/s and 80% IDC.

 

Overall my stage 2 tune seems fine, just needs to be fine tuned a little bit.

Do you mean 3.2 g/rev as in load? I'm really surprised you got away without changing your wastegate and turbo dynamics in the tune.

[covertrussian]

Do you mean 3.2 g/rev as in load? I'm really surprised you got away without changing your wastegate and turbo dynamics in the tune.

 

Yeah g/rev, sorry got it confused with the MAF scales .

 

I'm not running a boost controller, as in the wastegate line is not teed to the factory EBC. The reason for this is, the 16G wastegate is 14ish psi as is, I didn't want to fight with our finicky boost controller ontop of that. Until I can get a 6-7psi gate I'm not gonna hook up the factory EBC.

[rhino6303]

Yeah g/rev, sorry got it confused with the MAF scales [emoji38].

 

I'm not running a boost controller, as in the wastegate line is not teed to the factory EBC. The reason for this is, the 16G wastegate is 14ish psi as is, I didn't want to fight with our finicky boost controller ontop of that. Until I can get a 6-7psi gate I'm not gonna hook up the factory EBC.

Got it. I kind of thought you might have boost control disabled.

[covertrussian]

After testing the -4an Turbo/AVCS line and seeing that it AVCS was happy decided to build a permanent line setup.

 

 

Parts List

2 x 12-14" -4an SS Oil Lines

2 x 14mm to -4an Banjo Fitting (Head & AVCS)

1 x 10mm to -4an Banjo Fitting (Turbo)

1 x Male - Male - Female -4an Tee

 

Optional, you can reuse Stock for these:

2 x 14mm Banjo Bolts for Head and AVCS

1 x 10mm Banjo Bolt for Turbo (make sure it's restrictor size for your specific turbo)

 

Removing Stock Lines

 

Removed the Stock line's turbo side line. A lot of times these are so rusted on you can't even unbolt this without damaging the line that goes to the head.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=259931&stc=1&d=1514334971

 

I tried to take the stock line in one piece, but there's just not enough room with the manifold on. Had to resort to the destructive method...

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=259932&stc=1&d=1514334971

 

Installing SS Line

Installed the -4an 17mm Banjo on the head facing up

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=259933&stc=1&d=1514334971

 

I got a steel Tee to split oil between turbo and AVCS. I didn't want to use aluminum because the lines Banjos are steel and the braided lines are steel. Mixing metals can run into oxidation issues overtime.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=259934&stc=1&d=1514334850

 

Couple years ago when I was doing two uppipes, I bought two VF39 line and gasket kits, mainly for the gaskets really (was as much as buying gaskets individually:lol:). These kits came with 10-12" -4an SS braided lines and banjo bolts needed to do the oil line replacement.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=259935&stc=1&d=1514334850

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=259936&stc=1&d=1514334850

Edited January 18, 2018 by covertrussian

[Flinkly]

you sir, are a parts hoarder.

 

multiple TMICs, spare VF lines from other turbos, random green oil line tubing, etc....

 

kinda feel like you're the type of person to get stuck in the middle of nowhere, turn out your pockets, and use the bubblegum, wrapper, a few twist ties, and that paperclip you have to fix it.